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Old
01-06-2013, 02:29 AM
  #51
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Absolutely false.
Actually they are both true.

Im a fan of Gaborik but I would take Nash over him, Nash could easily be a 40 goal scorer on your team, and Nash already is a 40 goals scorer like Gaborik, except Nash did it with a much lesser supporting cast, then you also consider that Nash is younger, bigger and has a more rare skillset (That size, with that speed and those hands/shot). In terms of Value I would say Nash surely has more.

& then Gaborik doesn't have a ton of contract time left, so it's no sure thing for Phoenix, and Gormley is quite possibly the best defensive prospect right now.

Gormley >>>>>>>>> Kreider

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Old
01-06-2013, 02:54 AM
  #52
Pekka Rinne
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
3 yrs is a neglible difference between the two imo.

Gaborik injuries are also exaggerated IMO. He hasn't been that bad with the Rangers, now that his shoulder seems to be re-developed.

One player had 42g and 76 pts leading a division winner in scoring, the other had 59 pts on a terrible team being spoonfed minutes.
How is 3 years neglible?

Gaborik has only ever played one full season before this one, so id say he is injury prone? Most would. And now he just came off shoulder surgery.

Gaborik had 42 goals on a powerhouse team and playing with an elite playmaker in Richards, Nash played on the worst team in the league where the next most offensive threat was Vinny Prospal, Gaborik also averaged 19:30 min/game, to Nash's 19:05 min/game.

Now take into how Nash is signed for 4 more seaons at the same cap hit, and that included with age, injury history makes Nash the much more attractive target.

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Old
01-06-2013, 05:38 AM
  #53
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NVM i'M TO TIRED.

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Old
01-06-2013, 08:43 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
I believe Sather will do everything he can to keep Gaborik and Nash on the same team for 2 yrs but I am also sure he will listen to offers.

So with that said what team will have the cap space to add Gabby for a yr and what kind of offers? Rangers would need to resign McDonaugh ,Stepan, Hagelin next yr as RFAs so they would want a good scorer , top pick, top prospect
Unless, instead of trading Gaborik we move Stepan.
Obviously if we do any deal, it should be guided by how clearly certain and how much profitable that deal is based on the return.

Snipers are at a premium. I agree Sather does all he can to avoid moving. That eventually means a hard set of choices, probably moving Girardi and probably Stepan, and some smaller moves.

But no deal is urgent for now.

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01-06-2013, 08:46 AM
  #55
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with the cap closer to 64 million I imagine Sather does everything to keep Gaborik around next yr.

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01-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #56
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Gabs + Hagelin + Pick/Mid Prospect for Bobby Ryan

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01-06-2013, 10:32 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pekka Rinne View Post
Gaborik had 42 goals on a powerhouse team and playing with an elite playmaker in Richards, Nash played on the worst team in the league where the next most offensive threat was Vinny Prospal, Gaborik also averaged 19:30 min/game, to Nash's 19:05 min/game.
Gaborik barely played with Richards.

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Gabs + Hagelin + Pick/Mid Prospect for Bobby Ryan
This is just ****ing dumb. Way too much for Ryan.

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Old
01-06-2013, 01:38 PM
  #58
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I think Gaborik has a ntc so i don't see him waving for coyates or ducks. I think kings maybe interested maybe williams and martinez. I would like to wait till deadline to do it So i would know how hickey/muzzin can handle nhl mins. I think he would wave his ntc because he was down to la or nyr when he was a free agent.

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01-06-2013, 02:23 PM
  #59
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If anything it'd be Bobby Ryan++ for Gaborik. I'd also take P. Kane++ for Gaborik. I don't think Stepan will get moved, we don't have a lot of depth at C and he'll likely replace Richards as our 1C for the future.

And remember, Gaborik spent much of his time in Minnesota playing on a line with Pavol Demitra and Aaron ****ing Voros or Todd Fedoruk. It was pretty bad. If he can put up 35-40 goals on a trap team and a 6 goalie system with guys like Christensen, Voros, and Fedoruk on his line, imagine what he does on Chicago or Pittsburgh.

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01-06-2013, 03:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Definitely not there value-wise. Like someone said, Korpikoski or Boedker would have to be involved which would make it more even. No team in their right mind would trade a first line player for a prospect and a first. When you do these deals, you need some sort of "for sure" piece. We saw it with the Richards trade in Simmonds, the Carter trade in Voracek, and the Kovalchuk trade with Oduya/Bergfors.

The Rangers might actually like a Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik deal better, as Boedker is much more valuable than a 1st round pick that might make it in 3 or 4 years.

Would Rangers fans do Boedker and Gormley for Gaborik?
Yea Bergfors was "for sure"

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01-06-2013, 03:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Rangerfan4life90 View Post
I would honestly take Gormley and a 1st for Gabby.

Gormley will be a good one, just wish he was a right hand D-man (maybe we could convert him there).

And Kredier isn't overrated. Guy will be a stud in a few years. At the very least, he'll be a 25-25 guy.
This guy knows what he is talking about.

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01-06-2013, 03:19 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Statistically you'd be wrong, and he's at the tail end of it regardless.

The better players part is self explanatory, look at the number of 20/30 goal scorers and centers Minnesota Gaborik played with vs Nash. As far as their play, look at Gaborik's goal scoring vs Nash's. the numbers are very decidedly in Nash's favor. Gaborik had one season over 40G, three at 30G and only one more of 30+G. Nash has 2 over 40G, one at 30G and 4 more with 30+G or more. They're snipers, I don't care about assists, especially with the team talent disparity. Gaborik also played 65 or fewer games 4 of the 8 seasons he was in Minnesota. You really can't argue he outplayed Nash.
Can you tell me as to why assist totals don't matter? Gaborik is a sniper, but his APG ranks him 37th amongst active NHL players. He is more than a sniper, he is just the more creative offensive talent, thus the discrepancy in point totals. I am sick of the linemate excuses for Nash, Gaborik hasn't done any better. In Gaborik's first season, he played on a line with Eric Christensen and a past-his-prime Vaclav Prospal and still put up career numbers. He's proven he can score on inept offensive teams and stacked teams. As of now, Rick Nash has a lot to prove to be in the same conversation as Gaborik.

Quote:
Edit -GPG for both is 0.43

I'd want a 1st, a top prospect, and a top 6 player. However - both are 5 years younger, on far cap friendlier contracts which expire before the cap takes a massive drop (which is a plus and a minus), and have been told by just about the entire boards that they aren't worth that much. Simply as players, Perry>Gaborik at this point, so is Getzlaf (assuming last year was an aberration due to his home life and the overall team slump).
Rental players strongly diminishes his value. Imo Gaborik's value >>> Perry's because of the extra year on the contract. Perry can just walk and the team will lose him for nothing.

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01-06-2013, 03:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Actually they are both true.

Im a fan of Gaborik but I would take Nash over him, Nash could easily be a 40 goal scorer on your team, and Nash already is a 40 goals scorer like Gaborik, except Nash did it with a much lesser supporting cast, then you also consider that Nash is younger, bigger and has a more rare skillset (That size, with that speed and those hands/shot). In terms of Value I would say Nash surely has more.
Gaborik is already a 40g scorer on the Rangers. There is no indication that Nash will match those numbers. Nash is not a 40g scorer, he's hit that mark once since the lockout. Gaborik didn't have a much better supporting cast in his first year with the Rangers. He put up 86 pts with Christensen and Prospal as his linemates. Nash has better tools, but then again, Kreider has arguably the best toolset on the Rangers. It means nothing without talent and offensive zone IQ, which is where Gaborik has proven thus far that he is the superior player.0

Quote:
& then Gaborik doesn't have a ton of contract time left, so it's no sure thing for Phoenix, and Gormley is quite possibly the best defensive prospect right now.

Gormley >>>>>>>>> Kreider
lol.

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01-06-2013, 03:31 PM
  #64
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I agree with Torts, Gaborik > Nash. Nash is great but Gaborik is probably a top 3 sniper in the league.

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Old
01-06-2013, 05:32 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Can you tell me as to why assist totals don't matter? Gaborik is a sniper, but his APG ranks him 37th amongst active NHL players. He is more than a sniper, he is just the more creative offensive talent, thus the discrepancy in point totals. I am sick of the linemate excuses for Nash, Gaborik hasn't done any better. In Gaborik's first season, he played on a line with Eric Christensen and a past-his-prime Vaclav Prospal and still put up career numbers. He's proven he can score on inept offensive teams and stacked teams. As of now, Rick Nash has a lot to prove to be in the same conversation as Gaborik.



Rental players strongly diminishes his value. Imo Gaborik's value >>> Perry's because of the extra year on the contract. Perry can just walk and the team will lose him for nothing.
Assist totals don't matter because Gaborik has played with a LOT more talent in his career, even when he was with Minnesota. I already said that. One year with bad talent doesn't erase that for Gaborik.

Regardless of which player you like, there aren't 3 >>> between the values of Perry and Gaborik. That's ridiculous homering. Gaborik's one year is offset by his huge cap hit in a year where the cap is going to drop almost as much as his cap hit. Perry's pending UFA status is offset by the fact that he's EXACTLY the type of player that could put a team over the top for a cup run. Which is more valued depends on what the situation is for each team.

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01-06-2013, 06:29 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Assist totals don't matter because Gaborik has played with a LOT more talent in his career, even when he was with Minnesota. I already said that. One year with bad talent doesn't erase that for Gaborik.
Gaborik's never had a linemate as good as Jeff Carter. His linemates were decent 2nd line players in Brunette and Demitra, not much difference with Nash with Prospal/Carter. In his first year with NY, he put up career high in assists playing with Christensen and Prospal. He led the team in assists as well.

Quote:
Regardless of which player you like, there aren't 3 >>> between the values of Perry and Gaborik. That's ridiculous homering. Gaborik's one year is offset by his huge cap hit in a year where the cap is going to drop almost as much as his cap hit. Perry's pending UFA status is offset by the fact that he's EXACTLY the type of player that could put a team over the top for a cup run. Which is more valued depends on what the situation is for each team.
Agreed.

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Old
01-06-2013, 11:37 PM
  #67
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Here we go with the Gaborik vs Nash debates again, eh?

This is just ridiculous. Gaborik's career numbers get discredited because the level of talent he's played with over the years?

Maybe that would be some good logic if Nash's career assist numbers and SOG didn't indicate a pattern of shooting. Now, could that be due to the lack of talent he's played with? Sure, but David Vyborny wasn't awful. Andrew Cassels was still a decent playmaker when Nash first came up. Really, compare that to Pavol Demitra who was well past his prime when playing with Gaborik and P.M. Bouchard who is a walking injury waiting to happen.

The guys have had relatively the same level of talent around them, yet Gaborik's assist numbers have been better. Why? Because Gaborik is more of a playmaker as well. He's more of a complete offensive player.

It isn't a knock at Nash, but he's a shoot first guy and shoot away. He's the guy that's going to go through 3-4 guys and score a highlight reel goal that will have you talking for the next 2 weeks about it. Gaborik is not that guy. However, Gaborik is the guy that's going to snipe out a goalie for a nice goal and then set up another.

It's the difference in style of play, not talent or surrounding talent that would give Gaborik the edge. He facilitates others better than Nash does.

To a lesser extent (a much lesser one, albeit) it's the Crosby vs Ovechkin argument. Nash due to his style of play isn't going to make the players around him better, Gaborik can, to an extent.

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