HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Jan 6/13: CBA reached to end the Lockout. Rejoice! (Post#783)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2013, 06:14 AM
  #901
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Cap floor is $44M for year 2.

This is HUGE for smaller market/budget teams.
I thought they might go to 24m gap. Sounds like $20m or more. Should be good for low end teams.

Also helps the players as it lowers demand which should lower total salary paid and ease escrow claw backs ie players getting closer to full contracts paid.
Quote:
From Friedman:

On variance, lowest-paid season of any multi year deal can be no lower than 50 per cent of highest season
expected that. Ends backdiving a little.

me2 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:15 AM
  #902
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orca Smash View Post
I think hemsky is a bit of an exception to the rule regarding injuries though. He is also not kesler level. Not trying to argue, but I still dont know at 5 million.

And if you need cap room for hopkins and schultz, I buy him out in a second.
oh for sure. i wasnt arguing that. when i said i hate when people mention him. i was just saying that because im reminded of how bad i want him on the canucks

and i do think hes at the same level as kesler, his offense is much better, and his defensive side isn't. in the end, i think theyre pretty close to be honest, as long as both are healthy. im not a fan of keslers game lately either, he never knows when to pass, he doesn't know how to use his linemates whatsoever. hes basically the reason we can't find a set 2nd line

and we need that natural scoring player, our offense has been absolutely atrocious in the playoffs. keslers wild wrist shots wont cut it.

even at 5, he'd still be cheap for what he offers. look at what guys like hossa get paid

Pseudonymous is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:20 AM
  #903
Orca Smash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,078
vCash: 50
I do agree what you said in principle, we do desperately need to find a strong 2nd line offensive player, and we do need to take a risk.

Orca Smash is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:20 AM
  #904
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,953
vCash: 500
Kypreos:

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/287868115554029569

Told possible reason #CBA deal. Bettman under intense pressure from major sponsors. Sponsors nervous investing again in "devalued product"

I think Bettman may have just saved his job by losing the fight. He caved on pretty much every issue, contract length, year 2 cap @ 64.3, year-to-year variance, pensions, revenue sharing. About the only thing the NHL got in return was the 10 year CBA with opt-out at 8.

This looks like it was a big win by Fehr, he really stuck it to Bettman. Bettman played hardball until the sponsors threatened to pull out, and then he was forced into desperation mode and caved in.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:34 AM
  #905
timw33
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Kypreos:

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/287868115554029569

Told possible reason #CBA deal. Bettman under intense pressure from major sponsors. Sponsors nervous investing again in "devalued product"

I think Bettman may have just saved his job by losing the fight. He caved on pretty much every issue, contract length, year 2 cap @ 64.3, year-to-year variance, pensions, revenue sharing. About the only thing the NHL got in return was the 10 year CBA with opt-out at 8.

This looks like it was a big win by Fehr, he really stuck it to Bettman. Bettman played hardball until the sponsors threatened to pull out, and then he was forced into desperation mode and caved in.
Everybody has jobs for 8 years. Everyone wins.

timw33 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:35 AM
  #906
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Kypreos:

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/287868115554029569

Told possible reason #CBA deal. Bettman under intense pressure from major sponsors. Sponsors nervous investing again in "devalued product"

I think Bettman may have just saved his job by losing the fight. He caved on pretty much every issue, contract length, year 2 cap @ 64.3, year-to-year variance, pensions, revenue sharing. About the only thing the NHL got in return was the 10 year CBA with opt-out at 8.

This looks like it was a big win by Fehr, he really stuck it to Bettman. Bettman played hardball until the sponsors threatened to pull out, and then he was forced into desperation mode and caved in.
We'll have to wait for the final details but Bettman seems have done ok

Capped max length to 7/8 years down from unlimited

50% total variation, 7/8 max years, should stymie back diving enough

Ahlers on NHL money count against cap.

2 buyouts, but players buyouts count against players' HRR share

More money for weak franchises via rs. Win for Bettman over tight owners and win for the players.

64m cap down from 70m. 60m was never real IMHO, this is just a repeat of the NBA with the cap stalling for a few years.

And of course 50-50 split.

Both sides have done ok, Nhlpa did better than October offer but there's nothing here that couldn't have been sorted out a year ago without missing half a season and half a seasons pay.


Last edited by me2: 01-06-2013 at 06:54 AM.
me2 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:36 AM
  #907
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Kypreos:

https://twitter.com/RealKyper/status/287868115554029569

Told possible reason #CBA deal. Bettman under intense pressure from major sponsors. Sponsors nervous investing again in "devalued product"

I think Bettman may have just saved his job by losing the fight. He caved on pretty much every issue, contract length, year 2 cap @ 64.3, year-to-year variance, pensions, revenue sharing. About the only thing the NHL got in return was the 10 year CBA with opt-out at 8.

This looks like it was a big win by Fehr, he really stuck it to Bettman. Bettman played hardball until the sponsors threatened to pull out, and then he was forced into desperation mode and caved in.


The players lost. I know how it's being spun right now, but look at the CBA that just ended, and you will understand that the players are the ones who "gave" on nearly everything.


But they had to give. No 30 team league with 10 teams in the red is going to do well overall. The players had to lose.

Bleach Clean is online now  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:51 AM
  #908
petrishriekandgo
Registered User
 
petrishriekandgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I think Bettman may have just saved his job by losing the fight. He caved on pretty much every issue, contract length, year 2 cap @ 64.3, year-to-year variance, pensions, revenue sharing. About the only thing the NHL got in return was the 10 year CBA with opt-out at 8.
I think the Bettman era is over... if the game needs to be rebuilt from a fan/sponsor standpoint then you can't seriously do that with the same guy running the ship who has directed it onto the rocks. New leadership, new vision, new direction is needed and getting rid of Bettman would be a significant if not symbolic move towards that end.

petrishriekandgo is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:54 AM
  #909
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The players lost. I know how it's being spun right now, but look at the CBA that just ended, and you will understand that the players are the ones who "gave" on nearly everything.


But they had to give. No 30 team league with 10 teams in the red is going to do well overall. The players had to lose.
The players, with the help of some crafty GM's, took advantage of loopholes that were left in the last deal. Remember that when that deal was signed, the cap was sub 40M. Sure there's been inflation, but not over 50% in 7-8 years.

Quote:
We'll have to wait for the final details but Bettman seems have done ok

Capped max length to 7/8 years down from unlimited

50% total variation, 7/8 max years, should stymie back diving enough

Ahlers on NHL money count against cap.

More money for weak franchises via rs. Win for Bettman over tight owners and win for the players.

64m cap down from 70m. 60m was never real IMHO, this is just a repeat of the NBA with the cap stalling for a few years.

And of course 50-50 split.

Both sides have done ok, Nhlpa did better than October offer but there's nothing here that couldn't have been sorted out a year ago without missing half a season and half a seasons pay.
Daly's hill to die on, was 5/7. In comparison, 7/8 is a win for the players. Queue the wacky sign-and-trade deals.

Source on the AHL part? I've heard that it would count against HRR but I haven't seen them say cap.

Bettman called rs a distraction by the players, he was against it. This is a win for the players because weaker markets will have more money to exceed the cap floor. Bettman will be in hot water from the top revenue teams of the league over this.

NHL came back with 62, but NHLPA's 'hill to die on' was 64.3.

On final point, I disagree. This deal doesn't get done at all if the sponsors hadn't put pressure on Bettman. This pressure wasn't forthcoming until games lost and sponsors hurt.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 06:58 AM
  #910
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
I think the Bettman era is over... if the game needs to be rebuilt from a fan/sponsor standpoint then you can't seriously do that with the same guy running the ship who has directed it onto the rocks. New leadership, new vision, new direction is needed and getting rid of Bettman would be a significant if not symbolic move towards that end.
I agree. Also, replacing him with Daly would be window dressing. Both need to go for the good of the league. Hey, that NBA commish job is opening up next year, that's perfect for Bettman.

Bettman lost the faith of the sponsors, and he may have also lost the loyalty of several of the owners.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:04 AM
  #911
petrishriekandgo
Registered User
 
petrishriekandgo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
I agree. Also, replacing him with Daly would be window dressing. Both need to go for the good of the league. Hey, that NBA commish job is opening up next year, that's perfect for Bettman.

Bettman lost the faith of the sponsors, and he may have also lost the loyalty of several of the owners.
Stern's right hand man is taking over, already decided.

Let Bettman just take his millions and slip away into some 5th avenue coffee bar. I think John Collins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Co...s_executive%29) should be the guy in my mind. He spearheaded the Winter Classic, the new NBC sports deal etc. He's passionate, connected, VERY well respected and is media and technology savvy.

Bring him in and by the end of this new CBA the NHL will have taken over the NBA in popularity.

petrishriekandgo is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:11 AM
  #912
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
The players, with the help of some crafty GM's, took advantage of loopholes that were left in the last deal. Remember that when that deal was signed, the cap was sub 40M. Sure there's been inflation, but not over 50% in 7-8 years.


History _could_ repeat itself. On the surface of the deal right now though, the players lost.

Bleach Clean is online now  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:19 AM
  #913
Vajakki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country:
Posts: 1,250
vCash: 500
So what exactly happened to existing contracts here? If these "retirement contract" players like for example Luongo quit few seasons before his deal ends, will the cap hit stay?

Vajakki is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:20 AM
  #914
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
History _could_ repeat itself. On the surface of the deal right now though, the players lost.
Hopefully they closed enough of the loopholes, the only things left might be really minor changes. There isn't too much I can think of that should be an issue.

me2 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:22 AM
  #915
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,498
vCash: 500
they close the one that let schultz become a FA?

Pseudonymous is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:22 AM
  #916
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
So what exactly happened to existing contracts here? If these "retirement contract" players like for example Luongo quit few seasons before his deal ends, will the cap hit stay?


That' what everyone wants to know. So far, no new infromation on BDCs aside from the new variance rules and term limitations.

Bleach Clean is online now  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:25 AM
  #917
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
History _could_ repeat itself. On the surface of the deal right now though, the players lost.
The PA lost in comparison to the last deal, I agree, the players gave some ground.

The PA won in comparison to their relative bargaining positions going into this week. The NHL caved on far more negotiating points than the PA did. The final deal was far closer to the PA's position all along than Bettman's laughable initial offer. 50/50 instead of 43/57, so far no reported change in ELC's, UFA eligibility age. We'll have to see what happened with arbitration, but if it's the status quo that's a huge win for RFA players.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:48 AM
  #918
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer79 View Post
Daly's hill to die on, was 5/7.
Nobody should take posturing seriously. TV is for TV.

Quote:
In comparison, 7/8 is a win for the players. Queue the wacky sign-and-trade deals.
Good for teams losing players, mild incentive to stay with expansion teams. But not overwhelming. Split system is ainor win for Bettman and something Fehr would not have wanted.

Quote:
Source on the AHL part? I've heard that it would count against HRR but I haven't seen them say cap.
Pretty sure you have it backwards. It is to punish teams not players, I'd anything it should prevention quality guys like Redden being hidden in the AHL.

Quote:
Bettman called rs a distraction by the players, he was against it. This is a win for the players because weaker markets will have more money to exceed the cap floor. Bettman will be in hot water from the top revenue teams of the league over this.
I don't think Bettman is against it, just he thought Fehr was trying to use it as a distraction. I like it, good outcome for all.

Quote:
NHL came back with 62, but NHLPA's 'hill to die on' was 64.3.
Nhlpa were sitting on 67.5m hill to die on. All just bargaining BS from both sides. 60m cal was alway BS, ie if you based it off 50% this year was 62.6m, assuming no growth. It also seems with floor is now 20m+.

Let's put it another way: 5% growth and 50% split would have seen the cap at 65.3m for 13-14. They nhlpa took 64m, a deal worse than would have happened naturally under 50-50 split had a work stoppage not occurred

Quote:
On final point, I disagree. This deal doesn't get done at all if the sponsors hadn't put pressure on Bettman. This pressure wasn't forthcoming until games lost and sponsors hurt.
Both sides cut a deal because of the potential of a lost season. Once the Nhlpa caved on linkage and 50-50 the NHL gave way on it's ambit claims.

I still find it unfathomable this deal couldn't have been struck a year ago.

me2 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 07:53 AM
  #919
me2
Seahawks 43
 
me2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Broncos 8
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 17,613
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrishriekandgo View Post
I think the Bettman era is over... if the game needs to be rebuilt from a fan/sponsor standpoint then you can't seriously do that with the same guy running the ship who has directed it onto the rocks. New leadership, new vision, new direction is needed and getting rid of Bettman would be a significant if not symbolic move towards that end.
Bettman is 60, I doubt he sees out 10 years. With all the CBA work done he'll just hang around for 5 years and do a hand over. 5 years to find a replacement. Besides I can imagine the owners will keep him around for a a few years out of principle, then wouldn't want him to be seen as a scalp.

me2 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 08:51 AM
  #920
jrlp
Win It For Bettycat
 
jrlp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 138
vCash: 500
Attachment 60029

Out come the big guns.

Attachment 60031


Last edited by jrlp: 04-22-2013 at 11:42 PM.
jrlp is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 09:45 AM
  #921
luongo321
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 9,710
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrlp View Post
Attachment 60029

Out come the big guns.

Attachment 60031
sooo happy. I knew it was all of that Dr. Jones I was listening to that got the deal done. I have some canucks runners in my closet. I think I'll have to bust them out today. Now, how much longer do I have to wait to get my discounted Luongo jersey?

luongo321 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #922
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,953
vCash: 500
One thing I am glad about, the 'civil war' between pro owner and pro player forum posters can be finally put to rest.

Hammer79 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 09:46 AM
  #923
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,494
vCash: 500
Finally...

So happy. My son woke up to go to the bathroom around 2AM last night, and I checked out where things were at to see if the meetings were still going, only to see the news just breaking that a deal was done. Took me hours to fall back to sleep.

Can't wait to cheer on my Canucks again; it's a great day!

Mr. Canucklehead is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 09:52 AM
  #924
KDizzle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Japan
Posts: 8,095
vCash: 500
I've been lurking for the past few months. I've barely posted at all.

I'm blowing the dust off this account as we speak... but the Canucks are back!!!


KDizzle is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:00 AM
  #925
Nuckles
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ( ͡ ᴥ͡)
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Potato
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,983
vCash: 50
I screamed like a little girl...I mean man...when I heard the news.
I would have died if there was no season.

And what I love is that you can use one amnesty buyout next off-season, AND the off-season after that as well.

__________________

Richer's Ghost made my avatar
Nuckles is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.