HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Are the big market teams the losers here?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-05-2013, 05:34 PM
  #226
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
NFL teams routinely buy their own tickets to avoid blackouts. Fact.
So what?

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:35 PM
  #227
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Revenue sharing works in the MLB because the Red Sox, Yankees, and Dodgers bring in more than a billion dollars in combined revenue a year. The Leafs, Rangers, and Canadians bring in about 550 million.
Revenue sharing works better in the NHL because there are more "have" teams and the gap is much less overall.

Scurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:35 PM
  #228
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
How popular was football in the 60's and 70's?

The packers have built a very large following for a small market team because of their great success, not because they got a salary cap.
Haha, do you remember the Packers of the 70's, 80's and early 90's? Didn't think so.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:38 PM
  #229
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Is the system the reason the league is so popular or the legions of fans that have teams have built through great success? The Cowboys are more popular than hockey, is that because their fans were given a salary cap?
The NFL's system is directly responsible for the success since 1992 given that there would be no NFL without the system. The courts awarded NFL players free agency and the owners refused to move forward without a cap. It's pretty simple really.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:39 PM
  #230
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
So what?
That blackouts being prevented is not because of the cap?

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:42 PM
  #231
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,292
vCash: 500
du5566

There is no such thing as a bad hockey market. There are bad sports markets where hockey is collateral damage. Look at Miami. When a hockey team is having problems I find so is every other team in the market besides NFL. What posters here are saying is that they don't want to support people who won't support their own teams when they are bad with ticket and tax money . Gates are the major part of revenue as you know full well.

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #232
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Haha, do you remember the Packers of the 70's, 80's and early 90's? Didn't think so.
Remember when Lynn Dickey was tossing 80 yard TD passes to James Lofton? Damn, it's like yesterday to me

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:47 PM
  #233
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I think it's funny that people have ingnored this post.
Because it destroys their arguments. Of course it gets ignored

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:50 PM
  #234
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Quackenbush View Post
What do the money making teams get out of this other than a league to play in?
Because you, like, kind of need a league to play in or there's no point in you existing? That ever occur to people?

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:53 PM
  #235
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Free agency in professional sports tilted the playing field towards the players. The salary cap was the owner’s response and it won't go away no matter how much people want it to. It keeps salaries in check and provides competitive balance to small market teams.

I am sure the owners would have no problem giving up the cap if the players would give up free agency. Expecting either to do so though is just plain silly.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:55 PM
  #236
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
There are ways to even the playing field between big and small market teams without a salary cap.
Sure! It's called repealing free-agency. Good luck getting the players and the courts to agree to it.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:55 PM
  #237
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Free agency in professional sports tilted the playing field towards the players. The salary cap was the owner’s response and it won't go away no matter how much people want it to. It keeps salaries in check and provides competitive balance to small market teams.

If people want super teams then ask the players to give up free agency. I am sure then the owners would have no problem giving up the cap. But short of that asking either to do so is just silly.
Guaranteed Contracts should go instead

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #238
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates
 
Morgoth Bauglir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Quackenbush View Post
In English Football, the money making teams tired of propping up the first division of the likes of wiggan and luton town etc and created the Premier League. They still compete against the lesser teams in Cup competitions. I can see the NHL going to this system.
This isn't Europe, it's North America. Things are quite a bit different over here including how we view sports.

Morgoth Bauglir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #239
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Because it destroys their arguments. Of course it gets ignored
The reason the cap was implicated doesn't alter the discussion at all. Indeed the cap has been good for football, but the reason that football is popular has little if anything to do with the cap. The cap and revenue sharing helped solve their financial woes, its popularity has been driven by great teams and huge markets.

It's dangerous to give the cap credit for all that leagues success as the NHL is finding out the hard way.

Scurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 05:59 PM
  #240
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
This isn't Europe, it's North America. Things are quite a bit different over here including how we view sports.
Can you tell me why you hate anything that's not american? And europeans are better sports fans then us.

Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 06:04 PM
  #241
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Guaranteed Contracts should go instead
I hate guaranteed contracts.

But I love free agency and the cap.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 06:12 PM
  #242
Melrose Munch
Registered User
 
Melrose Munch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 14,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I hate guaranteed contracts.

But I love free agency and the cap.
I semi agree. I would give up guaranteed contract for no cap. That would eliminate buyouts saving money as well. Which would go to revenue sharing.


Last edited by Killion: 01-05-2013 at 06:27 PM.
Melrose Munch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 06:48 PM
  #243
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
The reason the cap was implicated doesn't alter the discussion at all. Indeed the cap has been good for football, but the reason that football is popular has little if anything to do with the cap. The cap and revenue sharing helped solve their financial woes, its popularity has been driven by great teams and huge markets.

It's dangerous to give the cap credit for all that leagues success as the NHL is finding out the hard way.
I don't give the cap all of the credit for the record revenue and TV ratings the NHL has seen since the last lockout but it definetly played a part. The reality is success in North American cities like Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston, Anahiem and LA have been huge for the league and none of it is possible without a cap.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-05-2013, 08:15 PM
  #244
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,368
vCash: 514
The cap itself is has helped the league overall. It's help stabalize the markets espeically Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Buffalo to name a few.

The problem is the floor. The rapid increase in revenue is the tide raising all of the boats including the floor of the lower revene teams. The league in part the victim of their own sucsess

Mightygoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 03:31 AM
  #245
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Revenue sharing works better in the NHL because there are more "have" teams and the gap is much less overall.
But the big markets don't make enough in my opinion to put the league on its back with all the financial troubles so many teams have.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 03:53 AM
  #246
Corncob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Quackenbush View Post
In English Football, the money making teams tired of propping up the first division of the likes of wiggan and luton town etc and created the Premier League. They still compete against the lesser teams in Cup competitions. I can see the NHL going to this system.
That's not really an accurate representation of history. The Premier League allowed the members of the top division to negotiate and keep all the revenue from a TV deal between its (initially) 22 members rather than it being shared between 92 league clubs.

Saying that the big clubs were tired of 'propping up' the likes of Luton and Wigan ignores the fact that Luton actually would have been founder members of the Premier League had they not been relegated for their performance the season before it started. The likes of Wimbledon and Oldham were founder members. And Wigan have been members of the Premier League since 2005.

Corncob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 08:25 AM
  #247
Capsized
Parity is a Disease
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I believe the history of the system used by the most successful professional sports franchise in North America is a little more than "fine and dandy" but whatever. And of course every league is driven by the big market teams. I am sure Major League Baseball would prefer a Dodgers Yankees World Series every other year but no matter how much money those team spend every year it doesn't guarantee it.
That's a great argument against the cap. A cap doesn't lift the bad teams it just drags down the good ones.

Capsized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 08:28 AM
  #248
Capsized
Parity is a Disease
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
But the big markets don't make enough in my opinion to put the league on its back with all the financial troubles so many teams have.
If the league stopped tearing down these teams and stopped locking out every time the league had any momentum the teams would raise more revenue. The NHL is horribly managed. That combined with crappy owners is what drags the league down.

Capsized is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 08:30 AM
  #249
Sour Shoes
lol u mad cam?
 
Sour Shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: pgh-original 12 Team
Posts: 2,332
vCash: 500
with the new restrictions on contract term and variance, the precious competitive advantage for big markets has shrunk a little more. nice work uncle gary... good to know this discussion is meaningless for the next 8 to 10 years!!!

Sour Shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #250
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sour Shoes View Post
with the new restrictions on contract term and variance, the precious competitive advantage for big markets has shrunk a little more. nice work uncle gary... good to know this discussion is meaningless for the next 8 to 10 years!!!
Yes, bravo!! One of the best things about the salary cap is good fans are more interested in all of the moves made by their GM, as every single one impacts the team in some way.

Was anything done regarding the burying of stupid contracts in the minor leagues?

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.