HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Penguins 2013 (and beyond) lineup discussion | Contract chart in Post #1

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2013, 10:08 AM
  #76
theicebox
#MonixWatch
 
theicebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 1,798
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
IMO, you'll see a few names moved for below market value because teams would rather get something than have to pay the buyout.
Who are we talking about KIRK?

theicebox is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:10 AM
  #77
Bishop7979
Registered User
 
Bishop7979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I just looked at the 2013-14 outlook, and it doesn't seem that any team is really in serious danger. Granted, I didn't look deeply, but the team with the least amount of cap space going into next year is Montreal, but they have 4 million dollars to sign bottom 6 players.


And I will also say, the guy who created cap geek is incredible. I was just poking around trying to find the outlooks for 2013-14, and there it was.
There are a number of teams that have between 55 and 57 mil committed already to players for the 13-14 season, some of which will need to sign upwards of ten players to fill out a roster. The nucks are at the top of that list. Granted they have one huge contract that everyone knows will be moved by then, but still.

Bishop7979 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:11 AM
  #78
Bishop7979
Registered User
 
Bishop7979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 1,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
Who are we talking about KIRK?
Rene Bourque comes to mind with Montreal.

Bishop7979 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:12 AM
  #79
Captain Hook
Olli Määttä
 
Captain Hook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 13,447
vCash: 500
Nice to be talking about this stuff again instead of the lockout.

Captain Hook is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:15 AM
  #80
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop7979 View Post
There are a number of teams that have between 55 and 57 mil committed already to players for the 13-14 season, some of which will need to sign upwards of ten players to fill out a roster. The nucks are at the top of that list. Granted they have one huge contract that everyone knows will be moved by then, but still.
really interested to see where he ends up

Ogrezilla is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:41 AM
  #81
Ogrezilla
Nerf Herder
 
Ogrezilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 32,112
vCash: 500
Jamie Benn, Michael Del Zotto and PK Subban still unsigned RFAs. Shero, you know what to do.

Ogrezilla is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:42 AM
  #82
bigd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,746
vCash: 500
The problem with sending Tangradi down is he has to pass through waivers. I don't think that will happen because I don't think he will make it through. I just don't think the Pens are ready to give up on him. Bennett looks like the real deal but they can send him back and bring him up at a later date. The same can be said of Simon fighting for a spot with Strait and Bortuzzo. Just because the WBS team sux doesn't take away what these players capabilities are and what they have done in the past.

bigd is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #83
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigd View Post
The problem with sending Tangradi down is he has to pass through waivers. I don't think that will happen because I don't think he will make it through. I just don't think the Pens are ready to give up on him. Bennett looks like the real deal but they can send him back and bring him up at a later date. The same can be said of Simon fighting for a spot with Strait and Bortuzzo. Just because the WBS team sux doesn't take away what these players capabilities are and what they have done in the past.
People have been so obsessed with Tangradi being the answer to the top six winger problem, they forget that championships are won with more than two lines.

Did we all forget about how below avg King looked in the A and the impact he had on LA's cup run playng third line minutes? (King has to prove himself for 82 games, but that remains to be seen)

Or that without the major contributions from the third line, the Pens don't win the cup.

If Tangradi settles in as a talented third liner, I will be quite happy with that. He can still have a big impact there.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:54 AM
  #84
SEALBound
Registered User
 
SEALBound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,125
vCash: 500
We are in an excellent position to nab a high dollar winger for Sid. Those teams that spent to or near the cap will need to unload to get down to the $64 mil next year.

I for one am thinking Heatley...make an affordable winger + prospect + pick offer that helps us with Sid's wing and helps Min squeeze Suter and Parise into their cap.

ETA: Lines

I still think Cooke will be the guy who moves up into the Top 6. He impressed me when playing with Sid when he came back. He's a gritty guy that can get physical too. Given the options at hand...I think he's the best one.

Cooke/Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis
Kunitz/Cooke-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey

Martin-Letang
Orpik-Niskanen
Engo-Despres/Bortz/Strait/etc


Last edited by SEALBound: 01-06-2013 at 11:01 AM.
SEALBound is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #85
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I'd pay attention to SJ. They're in a very odd spot. If they struggle this season, which is very possible, I'd be all over acquiring Boyle.

Usual suspects like Kulemin, Seto, Stewart, Iggy are ideal forward targets for me.

I'd be interested to see if a reporter/insider could find out what teams inquired about Martin aside from Nashville.
Interesting call on Boyle.

Main thing for me is that Shero has the cap space and the organizational assets to add quite a bit, and there definitely will be sellers to make it happen. Question, then, is whether we get the Ray Shero of the cup runs who made game changing deals or the Ray Shero of the subsequent three years (who did nothing more than tweaking and one even could argue that the Gogo deal involved his moving his #5 defenseman).

KIRK is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #86
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 17,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
People have been so obsessed with Tangradi being the answer to the top six winger problem, they forget that championships are won with more than two lines.

Did we all forget about how below avg King looked in the A and the impact he had on LA's cup run playng third line minutes? (King has to prove himself for 82 games, but that remains to be seen)

Or that without the major contributions from the third line, the Pens don't win the cup.

If Tangradi settles in as a talented third liner, I will be quite happy with that. He can still have a big impact there.
Eh. I'd rather have Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis shutdown the opposition's #1 threat and build around Sid/Geno.

Don't see Tangradi as a fit on our third line.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 10:58 AM
  #87
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by theicebox View Post
Who are we talking about KIRK?
Haven't really thought through the names that fit that category.

KIRK is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #88
Ky McDons
Registered User
 
Ky McDons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 56
vCash: 500
i really hope to see Bennett crack the lineup. i'd like to see us waive the Reverend Lovejoy - i see him as more of an 8th.

Ky McDons is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #89
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
People have been so obsessed with Tangradi being the answer to the top six winger problem, they forget that championships are won with more than two lines.

Did we all forget about how below avg King looked in the A and the impact he had on LA's cup run playng third line minutes? (King has to prove himself for 82 games, but that remains to be seen)

Or that without the major contributions from the third line, the Pens don't win the cup.

If Tangradi settles in as a talented third liner, I will be quite happy with that. He can still have a big impact there.
Championships are won with more than two lines. At the same time, the Pens have a unique advantage: They have Sid and Geno, and nobody else does. If both Sid and Geno had two decent wingers each-- and not committing 6M a year to Staal makes that doable under the cap-- then you'd really have a situation like the 2008 cup run, where Sid had Hossa and Dupuis (Dupuis may not be true top six, but he's passable with Sid and an elite winger) and Geno had Malone and Sykora.

I just see Sid and Geno as the Pens advantage. Advantages should be exploited, even if it means an extra question elsewhere. Better, IMO, then mitigating the advantage to do more elsewhere.

End of the day, all teams have questions. I'd rather put my trust in Sid and Geno and the fact that no team has the depth to handle both of them if both were to have two good wingers each.

Can't speak for anyone else, but this is why I'm a little obsessed with who (or, put another way, the types of players) who play on the top two lines.

If Bennett is ready, then great. If Tangradi surprises, then all the better. But, I know that I don't want TK anywhere near a line with Sid or Geno, and I know that Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis has a nice ring to it for a team looking to make a cup run.

KIRK is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:07 AM
  #90
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
We are in an excellent position to nab a high dollar winger for Sid. Those teams that spent to or near the cap will need to unload to get down to the $64 mil next year.

I for one am thinking Heatley...make an affordable winger + prospect + pick offer that helps us with Sid's wing and helps Min squeeze Suter and Parise into their cap.

ETA: Lines

I still think Cooke will be the guy who moves up into the Top 6. He impressed me when playing with Sid when he came back. He's a gritty guy that can get physical too. Given the options at hand...I think he's the best one.

Cooke/Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis
Kunitz/Cooke-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey

Martin-Letang
Orpik-Niskanen
Engo-Despres/Bortz/Strait/etc
I think that's probably how it works out, but I still think Shero has the cap space to do right by both Sid and Geno if he's really willing to move assets. It will be interesting to see what impact the Staal deal had, if any, on his thinking in this regard.

I don't know . . . I just really don't want to keep wasting years of Sid and Geno so we can have a better third liner or an extra veteran defenseman or keep a prospect because we get married to what he might do even though he likely won't make a significant impact before Sid or Geno turns 30.

KIRK is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:21 AM
  #91
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Eh. I'd rather have Cooke/Sutter/Dupuis shutdown the opposition's #1 threat and build around Sid/Geno.

Don't see Tangradi as a fit on our third line.
Cooke and Dupuis are well into their thirties and won't be around in a few yrs. Tangradi has ideal size to wear down the opposition and generate offense.

I'd say he is ideal for the third line. He and Vitale did quite well in a checking line role in WBS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Championships are won with more than two lines. At the same time, the Pens have a unique advantage: They have Sid and Geno, and nobody else does. If both Sid and Geno had two decent wingers each-- and not committing 6M a year to Staal makes that doable under the cap-- then you'd really have a situation like the 2008 cup run, where Sid had Hossa and Dupuis (Dupuis may not be true top six, but he's passable with Sid and an elite winger) and Geno had Malone and Sykora.

I just see Sid and Geno as the Pens advantage. Advantages should be exploited, even if it means an extra question elsewhere. Better, IMO, then mitigating the advantage to do more elsewhere.

End of the day, all teams have questions. I'd rather put my trust in Sid and Geno and the fact that no team has the depth to handle both of them if both were to have two good wingers each.

Can't speak for anyone else, but this is why I'm a little obsessed with who (or, put another way, the types of players) who play on the top two lines.

If Bennett is ready, then great. If Tangradi surprises, then all the better. But, I know that I don't want TK anywhere near a line with Sid or Geno, and I know that Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis has a nice ring to it for a team looking to make a cup run.
I've been spouting the same thing for awhile about giving Crosby and Malkin legit wingers. However, people have tunnel vision with Tangradi and don't understand he can have value beyond a top six role.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:25 AM
  #92
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 17,360
vCash: 500
Putting Tangradi into a shutdown role under DB isn't putting him into a position to succeed IMO. Easiest way for him to earn a role on this team is to give him a shot in the top six with legit talent while we have holes there.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:25 AM
  #93
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
Golden Swallow
 
Rowdy Roddy Peeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 42,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Cooke and Dupuis are well into their thirties and won't be around in a few yrs. Tangradi has ideal size to wear down the opposition and generate offense.

I'd say he is ideal for the third line. He and Vitale did quite well in a checking line role in WBS.

I've been spouting the same thing for awhile about giving Crosby and Malkin legit wingers. However, people have tunnel vision with Tangradi and don't understand he can have value beyond a top six role.
As much as anything, I'd like to see Tangradi in the line-up just to add some size/strength/physicality to the forward line-up. He has some offensive upside, naturally, but that'd just be gravy.

Rowdy Roddy Peeper is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:26 AM
  #94
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
We are in an excellent position to nab a high dollar winger for Sid. Those teams that spent to or near the cap will need to unload to get down to the $64 mil next year.

I for one am thinking Heatley...make an affordable winger + prospect + pick offer that helps us with Sid's wing and helps Min squeeze Suter and Parise into their cap.

ETA: Lines

I still think Cooke will be the guy who moves up into the Top 6. He impressed me when playing with Sid when he came back. He's a gritty guy that can get physical too. Given the options at hand...I think he's the best one.

Cooke/Kunitz-Sid-Dupuis
Kunitz/Cooke-Malkin-Neal
Tangradi-Sutter-Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Jeffrey

Martin-Letang
Orpik-Niskanen
Engo-Despres/Bortz/Strait/etc
Personally, I think we're in a terrible position to be adding any type of multi-year salary at all. Resigning Geno and Letang is gonna be tight enough (and both are money better spent than $7 mil per for what's left of Heatley).


But I'm in total agreement about Cooke. He doesn't have good enough hands to make him an ideal top 6 forward, but he's smart, hard-working, situationally aware, can work the boards, knows when to go to the net and just generally does his job.

I love this goal of Cooke's.



Crosby makes an insane play here, but Cooke sees the 2 on 1, just goes to the net leaning on his stick and assumes that Sid will put the puck in scoring location instead of trying to guess how Sid will get it there, which might have lead to another guy flubbing the pass because it was so unconventional.

billybudd is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:26 AM
  #95
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 27,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Cooke and Dupuis are well into their thirties and won't be around in a few yrs. Tangradi has ideal size to wear down the opposition and generate offense.

I'd say he is ideal for the third line. He and Vitale did quite well in a checking line role in WBS.



I've been spouting the same thing for awhile about giving Crosby and Malkin legit wingers. However, people have tunnel vision with Tangradi and don't understand he can have value beyond a top six role.
Sweet Jesus . . . trying to watch Malkin's last KHL game this season. Sick pass from Kumy, sick backhander on the goal from Geno.

You know, I finally bought King of Russia and read King's explanation for why he played Kumy with Geno. He sees the play develop like Geno, he knows when to fill so Geno can take chances offensively, and Geno completely trusts him.

Some people here say 'Kulemin scored 7 goals last year, give Tangradi and a 2nd to get him'. Me, I see a guy who would bring a Malone type dynamic on the ice to a line with Geno. Not the snarl of course, but better in other areas.

Shero won't do it, but if he paid the price to get Kumy (the Harrington caliber as part of a deal price, IMO), then it would take one game of Kumy-Geno-Neal to make any naysayers realize their folly.

EDIT: I'd give Burke TK, Tangradi, and a guy like Harrington to get him, but I'm probably a minority of one here. Then again, if that were the price and Shero paid it, he'd have the assets and the cap space to add an impact winger to play with Sid and Kunitz and a defensive presence and still have prospects in the cupboard. He's drafted all of these guys. I'd rather parlay a few for Sid and Geno now.

KIRK is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:29 AM
  #96
Antaris
Totally Trustworthy
 
Antaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,280
vCash: 500
Beating the dead horse.

In order for Tangradi to have a chance of sucess he must be put in his right element, people keep doing comparisons to King but Tangradis game is different from Kings. He needs an offensive element in his game and not a defense first role.
He's an offensive player, he needs to be put in a role where he can be that player. He's not magically going to change into something he's not.

// end obvious rant

Antaris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #97
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 17,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antaris View Post
Beating the dead horse.

In order for Tangradi to have a chance of sucess he must be put in his right element, people keep doing comparisons to King but Tangradis game is different from Kings. He needs an offensive element in his game and not a defense first role.
He's an offensive player, he needs to be put in a role where he can be that player. He's not magically going to change into something he's not.

// end obvious rant
I don't disagree that Tangradi can be put on a shutdown line. Just with his size alone he'd be an asset in our lineup. But I think it'd be beyond dumb not to give him a legit 10-15 game stint with Sid/Geno while we have serious question marks in our top 6. One less top 6 forward we have to acquire if he can find chemistry with one of them.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:33 AM
  #98
Antaris
Totally Trustworthy
 
Antaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

Shero won't do it, but if he paid the price to get Kumy (the Harrington caliber as part of a deal price, IMO), then it would take one game of Kumy-Geno-Neal to make any naysayers realize their folly.

EDIT: I'd give Burke TK, Tangradi, and a guy like Harrington to get him, but I'm probably a minority of one here. Then again, if that were the price and Shero paid it, he'd have the assets and the cap space to add an impact winger to play with Sid and Kunitz and a defensive presence and still have prospects in the cupboard. He's drafted all of these guys. I'd rather parlay a few for Sid and Geno now.

Meh i don't know kirk. You seem awfully confident about that. Yes they obviously have game, but it's not a guarantee it'll work in the NHL and plus i think TK + Gradi + Harrington-esque is overpaying for someone like Kulemin. In order for that to work it feels like you're expecting some of the kids in the AHL to be ready to step up, which i'm really not sure they are.

With this said - Would i like to have Kulemin here? Of course.
But the fact is that I don't see it happening. Granted, Toronto seem to be high on Tangradi, i'm not sure they'd swap Kulemin out.

Antaris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:35 AM
  #99
Antaris
Totally Trustworthy
 
Antaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,280
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I don't disagree that Tangradi can be put on a shutdown line. Just with his size alone he'd be an asset in our lineup. But I think it'd be beyond dumb not to give him a legit 10-15 game stint with Sid/Geno while we have serious question marks in our top 6. One less top 6 forward we have to acquire if he can find chemistry with one of them.
It would be retarded not to give him a fair shot now that the opportunity is there.
I'm really not sure Tangradi will easily be groomed into a shutdown role. He looks lost everytime he tries to work that spot.

Antaris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:37 AM
  #100
SEALBound
Registered User
 
SEALBound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I think that's probably how it works out, but I still think Shero has the cap space to do right by both Sid and Geno if he's really willing to move assets. It will be interesting to see what impact the Staal deal had, if any, on his thinking in this regard.

I don't know . . . I just really don't want to keep wasting years of Sid and Geno so we can have a better third liner or an extra veteran defenseman or keep a prospect because we get married to what he might do even though he likely won't make a significant impact before Sid or Geno turns 30.
Indeed. With the money we are already spending, its reasonable to give both Sid and Geno a star wing and then plug in a 2nd.

Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis
Cooke-Malkin-Neal

Is what I'm betting on for "opening night".

Something like:

Dupuis-Crosby-Seto/Stewart/Heatley/Hossa/etc
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-TK
Glass-Vitale-Adams

is not that unreasonable and will serve us better in the long run if we can lock that 1st line winger in for a longer contract. Then let Kunitz/Dupuis/Bennett/Tangradi/etc fill in the other wing. Game of duos. It still allows us to be flexible on the 3rd line. We just need to get a little more realistic about what prospects we have and where they can fit.

Be interesting to see what Shero's thoughts are on the upcoming RFA's and UFA's. Dupuis comes back, Cooke is a ?, TK is as good as gone IMO.

SEALBound is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.