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Start your franchise with Yakupov or Couturier?

View Poll Results: With my 1st overall pick, I select
Sean Couturier 76 38.38%
Nail Yakupov 122 61.62%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:05 PM
  #101
Takashi
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Not sure what you're looking for here.... Worded weird but I'll attempt..

Who I'd rather have

MAF < Eberle
Ovechkin > Eberle
Crosby > Eberle
Johnson < Eberle
Kane > Eberle
Stamkos > Eberle
Tavares > Eberle
Hall < Eberle
RNH > Eberle
Yakupov < Eberle


If you're trying to say what I think you're saying, I disagree with your assessment. Yakupov was 1st overall in a weak draft, he wouldn't have been picked first over any of the recent #1 picks in the same draft
The first round until the mid second round wasn't weak, it's after that that it becomes weak.

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01-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #102
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Nail easily.

Both will have great careers tho.

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01-05-2013, 11:37 PM
  #103
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A draft's strength can't be measured accurately for at least 3 years so your weak draft assumption is way off base, particularly because the only person who I've heard say 2012 was a weak draft on a consistent basis was Brian Burke.

Hall is better than Eberle and Yakupov will be better than him too. There is no way any GM in the league trades Hall or Yakupov for Eberle straight up and if you're serious that you'd make that trade your judgment is questionable. Furthermore, saying that Eberle is better than Hall and Yakupov means that you believe Eberle would've been chosen #1 in either the 2010 or 2012 drafts. yeah good one!

I meant delete Fleury and Johson from the question because they're not forwards.
Are you trying to convince me that you would trade eberle for yakupov or hall? I certainly wouldn't. They may have higher ceilings but eberle is much more proven and is already a star on the verge of super star.

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01-06-2013, 01:37 AM
  #104
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People expecting couturier to be a Staal-Lite are going to be shocked.
Hell probably be very similar to Staal probably a bit better offensively. 60 point good way forward.

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01-06-2013, 01:40 AM
  #105
The Big Unit
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Are you trying to convince me that you would trade eberle for yakupov or hall? I certainly wouldn't. They may have higher ceilings but eberle is much more proven and is already a star on the verge of super star.
I'm absolutely saying that I would no question. 1st overall players are drafted 1st for a reason. Hall and Yakupov were consensus #1's. Please just stop trying to justify your position. Eberle is one of my favorite players but if you do the 2008 draft over again he'd go no higher than third at best but most likely 4th or 5th.

Then again you'd rather have Couturier over Yakupov. Just for the record, in 2010 Couturier was projected to go 1st overall in 2011 and ended up falling to 8th in his draft year. That doesn't happen if he truly was the kind of player you build a franchise around.


Last edited by The Big Unit: 01-06-2013 at 02:03 AM.
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01-06-2013, 01:57 AM
  #106
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I'm absolutely saying that I would no question
You're in the minority. Hall is too much a kamikaze health risk or I'd agree on him... Yakupov I don't see him being as good as eberle and eberle is already proven

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01-06-2013, 02:06 AM
  #107
The Big Unit
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You're in the minority. Hall is too much a kamikaze health risk or I'd agree on him... Yakupov I don't see him being as good as eberle and eberle is already proven
I'm really not in the minority. As loved and skilled and clutch as Eberle is he's not a franchise player. Hall and Yakupov definitely are in that conversation.

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01-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #108
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SC with 70 point potential I like him but he doest have the footspeed or the high offensive tools to make that happen.His ceiling is that of a 50 point two way center .


Last edited by topshelf15: 01-06-2013 at 11:02 AM.
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01-06-2013, 11:44 AM
  #109
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I'm really not in the minority. As loved and skilled and clutch as Eberle is he's not a franchise player. Hall and Yakupov definitely are in that conversation.
You ARE in the minority, eberle is a star already, and he's only going to get better.... How does he not have franchise player ability? With Hall there's some signs and proof he could be but the way he plays he will have a shortened career.. Yakupov is the complete unknown and looked really Medicore in the WJC. Eberle is the clear choice right now, if you'd take hall or yak over him you're enamoured by the flashy draft and position on potential.... I like to gamble and all but let me break down what I'm trying to say


- Eberle IS a PPG player at least... I expect him to score 80-90 every year

- you can only hope hall or yakupov score 90 a year, and they both have a chance to be 60 point players if hall can't play enough games and yakupov doesn't translate to the NHL


If you're into extreme odds gambling then sure take yakupov and hall. Hall is a better player IMO, don't get me wrong, he's the best of the 3 but I have concerns with his health. Yakupov I don't see how you take him over eberle... At all

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01-06-2013, 11:46 AM
  #110
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SC with 70 point potential I like him but he doest have the footspeed or the high offensive tools to make that happen.His ceiling is that of a 50 point two way center .
Can't wait for his to be bumped. In 2-3 years couturiers worst years will be above 50 points and be will score over 70 a couple times, possibly 80 once. To say SC doesn't have 70 point potential is ludicrous given his pedigree... The only thing more underrated than patrick Elias on HFBoards is SC's offensive ability

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01-06-2013, 11:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by The Big Unit View Post
I'm absolutely saying that I would no question. 1st overall players are drafted 1st for a reason. Hall and Yakupov were consensus #1's. Please just stop trying to justify your position. Eberle is one of my favorite players but if you do the 2008 draft over again he'd go no higher than third at best but most likely 4th or 5th.

Then again you'd rather have Couturier over Yakupov. Just for the record, in 2010 Couturier was projected to go 1st overall in 2011 and ended up falling to 8th in his draft year. That doesn't happen if he truly was the kind of player you build a franchise around.
that was a dumb move by 5 NHL teams at least. SC only slipped because of MONO and he STILL had the best PPG of any draft eligible player, while being the best defensive forward along with Landeskog... I had SC 1st in my rankings. And rewatch the draft, Pierre even says " years from now people will look back at this draft and say how the heck did SC slip to 8th"

1. SC
2. RNH
3. Larsson
4. Landeskog
5. Huberdeau

They were my rankings, check the archives... In hindsight in a redraft it's likely going to be


1. RNH ( EDM got it right)
2. Landeskog ( Avs got it right, just didn't like his offensive projections)
3. Couturier
4. Larsson
5. Huberdeau

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01-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #112
topshelf15
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Can't wait for his to be bumped. In 2-3 years couturiers worst years will be above 50 points and be will score over 70 a couple times, possibly 80 once. To say SC doesn't have 70 point potential is ludicrous given his pedigree... The only thing more underrated than patrick Elias on HFBoards is SC's offensive ability
It wont be, do you honestly think SC has elite two way skill, to make that happen?? .Elite two way centers that approach those types of numbers are in the Zetterberg,Kesler,Datszuk class. Sorry SC is a smart two way center with some offensive ability but you are way overating him here


Last edited by topshelf15: 01-06-2013 at 12:01 PM.
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Old
01-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #113
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It wont be, do you honestly think SC has elite two way skill, to make that happen?? .Elite two way centers that approach those types of numbers are in the Zetterberg,Kesler,Datszuk class. Sorry SC is a smart two way center with some offensive ability but you are way overating him here
I easily see Couturier being better than Kesler. Without a doubt. Datsyuk and Z? That might be a stretch.

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01-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #114
Musashi
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You realize this is just your opinion right

Pretty bold predictions for SC

Also most oil fans know the importance of hall and have it hall>eberle. Even though that remains to be scene as eberle is proving himself to be an offensive star, how does that lead to be the minority opinion

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01-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #115
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You realize this is just your opinion right

Pretty bold predictions for SC

Also most oil fans know the importance of hall and have it hall>eberle. Even though that remains to be scene as eberle is proving himself to be an offensive star, how does that lead to be the minority opinion
EDM fans may rather keep Hall on potential over Eberle but In a draft Eberle gets you more value, without a doubt. I would take Eberle over Hall in a vacuum at this point... Based on Needs for Chicago I may take the Center

Edit: no, they're not very bold predictions to call SC a potential 70 point selke contender... What's bold, even More bold than those predictions is Yakupov scoring 50 goals... Do you contend that yakupov more likely scores 50 goals or SC scores 70 points? It's not even a question in my head.

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01-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #116
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Pretty sure neither would be my 1st overall pick, but atm I'll take Couturier over Yakupov. Understood that more would take Yakupov, actually I'm surprised that the margin isn't greater than it is. But so far Couturier is the proven commodity, and it's really impressive to me that he shows such a good overall game at such a young age. Yeah, maybe he doesn't go beyond that and sort of does a Jordan Staal level out, which is still solid, of course. But it's also still a great insurance floor, built in risk reduction. Yakupov I just don't know... he has so much skill, but seems so individualistic and could to me be anything from a superstar everybody wants to a player who frustrates. I would go conservative with Couturier, then kick myself if/when Yakupov does fulfill the superstar potential.

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01-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #117
The Big Unit
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
You ARE in the minority, eberle is a star already, and he's only going to get better.... How does he not have franchise player ability? With Hall there's some signs and proof he could be but the way he plays he will have a shortened career.. Yakupov is the complete unknown and looked really Medicore in the WJC. Eberle is the clear choice right now, if you'd take hall or yak over him you're enamoured by the flashy draft and position on potential.... I like to gamble and all but let me break down what I'm trying to say


- Eberle IS a PPG player at least... I expect him to score 80-90 every year

Having a good year doesn't make you a franchise player. Getting drafted 1st overall means there's a consensus among scouts and most NHL franchises that you're good enough to carry a team. Franchise players aren't simply players who score a lot, they're players you can build your team around. Eberle is a strong core player but he'll never be the cornerstone a team builds around. An example from your Blackhawks is Marian Hossa. Great player and he's hit 40 goals 3 times and 100 pts but he's NOT a franchise player and never will be.

- you can only hope hall or yakupov score 90 a year, and they both have a chance to be 60 point players if hall can't play enough games and yakupov doesn't translate to the NHL

I see! So I can only hope 1st overall picks Hall or Yakupov can score 90 points a year on the same team with Eberle and RNH. If, of course, the Oilers get lucky and Yakupov isn't a bust or if Hall can ever stay healthy as you seem to be implying......but Couturier is "all but guaranteed to be a perennial Selke candidate" and I'M IN THE MINORITY?


If you're into extreme odds gambling then sure take yakupov and hall. Hall is a better player IMO, don't get me wrong, he's the best of the 3 but I have concerns with his health. Yakupov I don't see how you take him over eberle... At all
The injury prone argument is old and tired now. He's had 2 freak injuries that were not hockey plays and a bum shoulder he's had since junior surgically repaired this offseason. He still managed to get drafted 1st overall and win two memorial cup MVP's but Couturier slipped because of Mono, yup that's it. I'm not going into this any deeper, Oilers fans are sick of talking about this. If you need more info go ask the guys in the Oilers board who generally agree that Hall>Eberle.

Yakupov is not a complete unknown he's a consensus 1st overall pick. This is based on his performance in junior and despite a "poor WJC performance" as you say he was still Russia's best player. Furthermore, if you're basing Yakupov's draft pedigree because of a poor WJC why are you so high on Couturier? In the 2011 WJC hj had 3 points in 7 games and was otherwise invisible. You just keep contradicting yourself.

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01-06-2013, 02:48 PM
  #118
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Yak and quite easily too

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01-06-2013, 02:54 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
that was a dumb move by 5 NHL teams at least. SC only slipped because of MONO and he STILL had the best PPG of any draft eligible player, while being the best defensive forward along with Landeskog... I had SC 1st in my rankings. And rewatch the draft, Pierre even says " years from now people will look back at this draft and say how the heck did SC slip to 8th"

1. SC
2. RNH
3. Larsson
4. Landeskog
5. Huberdeau

They were my rankings, check the archives... In hindsight in a redraft it's likely going to be


1. RNH ( EDM got it right)
2. Landeskog ( Avs got it right, just didn't like his offensive projections)
3. Couturier
4. Larsson
5. Huberdeau
2011 Draft

1 RNH
2 Landeskog
3 Huberdeau
4 Larsson
5 Strome
6 Zibenejad
7 Scheifele
8 Couturier

I can see all of the top 4 being better players than Couturier and Ryan Strome is no slouch either. Now Couturier just might end up being the 3rd best player in the draft but it's not "all but guaranteed" by any stretch.

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01-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #120
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Might be a bit crazy to go against a first overall pick, but Yakupov is very unimpressive to me. His lack of hockey sense is very concerning for a guy that was picked that high. Meanwhile, Couturier's hockey sense is top notch. I think that will translate into a better future in the league.

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01-06-2013, 03:50 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
EDM fans may rather keep Hall on potential over Eberle but In a draft Eberle gets you more value, without a doubt. I would take Eberle over Hall in a vacuum at this point... Based on Needs for Chicago I may take the Center

Edit: no, they're not very bold predictions to call SC a potential 70 point selke contender... What's bold, even More bold than those predictions is Yakupov scoring 50 goals... Do you contend that yakupov more likely scores 50 goals or SC scores 70 points? It's not even a question in my head.
You're basically saying he's the next toews, will be better than kesler, and will be the top defensive player year in and year out and he's just finished his rookie year. That is a bold prediction wouldn't you say? Why don't you keep going and predict how many Canadian Olympic men's rosters he will make and how many conn smythes he will win

I would say yakupov will score 35+ goals more times then SC will score 60+ points and by a landslide in there careers

SC is not or will never be > than Jonathan toews, but that doesn't mean he wont be a good player

Imo


Last edited by Musashi: 01-06-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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01-06-2013, 04:05 PM
  #122
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It should be Nail for sure. It doesn't matter if Couts is more proven with his 1 season, Nail is a 1st overall pick and will 99.9% be an impact player in the NHL.

Picking Couturier over Yakupov is like picking Couturier over RNH, Hall, etc

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01-06-2013, 04:29 PM
  #123
Sasso09
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You're basically saying he's the next toews, will be better than kesler, and will be the top defensive player year in and year out and he's just finished his rookie year. That is a bold prediction wouldn't you say? Why don't you keep going and predict how many Canadian Olympic men's rosters he will make and how many conn smythes he will win

I would say yakupov will score 35+ goals more times then SC will score 60+ points and by a landslide in there careers

SC is not or will never be > than Jonathan toews, but that doesn't mean he wont be a good player

Imo
I never said he would be as good as Toews.... I said that's his ceiling

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01-06-2013, 06:36 PM
  #124
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Yakupov

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