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THE OFFICIAL BUYOUT THREAD: Bourque or Kaberle?

View Poll Results: Who do you buy out?
Gomez 72 67.29%
Bourque 16 14.95%
Kaberle 64 59.81%
Markov 2 1.87%
other 0 0%
I only buy out 1 player 8 7.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-06-2013, 01:48 PM
  #101
Phil Parent
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Gomez will be no matter what. It's the only way we can get under the new cap by cutting only one guy. Might as well cut him before this upcoming half-season. Buyouts can be applied either after this year or next.

Then, see how Bourque / Prust do, and if they deserve it, cut them before next season.

Kaberle only has one year left, ride it out. Same with Markov, who has extra sympathy for being trueborn to our team and who I would like to see retire a Hab.

EDIT: Switched before for after.


Last edited by Phil Parent: 01-06-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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01-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Captain Saku View Post
No body's mentioning Markov as a possible buyout candidate. What if he completely sucks and can barely skate in the nhl?
He's been playing well in the KHL. He's made the KHL all-star team. He's logged in 20-22 minutes a game this lockout.

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01-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Gomez will be no matter what. It's the only way we can get under the new cap by cutting only one guy. Might as well cut him before this upcoming half-season. Buyouts can be applied either before this year or next.

Then, see how Bourque / Prust do, and if they deserve it, cut them before next season.

Kaberle only has one year left, ride it out. Same with Markov, who has extra sympathy for being trueborn to our team and who I would like to see retire a Hab.
Wow.... Talking about buying Prust out before he even played a shift here.

I'll give you my hockeystreams account so you can watch other teams play and not make such ridiculous statements.

Let's buy out Carey Price.

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01-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Seb View Post
Gomez will probably be traded for a 6th or 7th round pick at the end of the season. He won't be bought out.
I would have ruled it out had the salary floor dropped dramatically in the new CBA, but it hasn't really. Players agreed to a 50/50 split, but the struggling bottom teams still have to pay 44 M in salaries. If they could get away with only paying 41 M while having Gomez on the team for 1 year and giving up nothing (future considerations?), someone may bite. Unlikely, but you never know.

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01-06-2013, 01:51 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Gomez will be no matter what. It's the only way we can get under the new cap by cutting only one guy. Might as well cut him before this upcoming half-season. Buyouts can be applied either before this year or next.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412844

Only after this year:

- Each team will be allowed two amnesty buyouts that can be used to terminate contracts after this season and next season. The buyouts will count against the players' overall share in revenues, but not the team's salary cap.

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01-06-2013, 01:52 PM
  #106
Phil Parent
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Wow.... Talking about buying Prust out before he even played a shift here.

I'll give you my hockeystreams account so you can watch other teams play and not make such ridiculous statements.
Well, he makes 2.5 million a year for 4 years as an enforcer. I definitively think that if his performance isn't up to par he's a prime candidate.

I'll give you my brain so you can build arguments better.

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01-06-2013, 01:55 PM
  #107
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Depends who plays well this season. I'd say Kaberle though because we have more of a logjam on defense and even if one of our prospects does well enough to get on the 2nd line, we could still use Bourque as a big body who can score on the 3rd line.

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01-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412844

Only after this year:

- Each team will be allowed two amnesty buyouts that can be used to terminate contracts after this season and next season. The buyouts will count against the players' overall share in revenues, but not the team's salary cap.
So you can't buy out anybody right now. Okay. Well, they all get 48 games to make their point then.

Gomez is the only sure thing to be bought out unless we trade him. The other buy-out will probably be used and right now, Bourque gets it from me unless he improves. Kabs & Markov will have one year left on their deal, not worth it from them. Prust could get it if he doesn't deliver the goods as an enforcer.

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01-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Well, he makes 2.5 million a year for 4 years as an enforcer. I definitively think that if his performance isn't up to par he's a prime candidate.

I'll give you my brain so you can build arguments better.
Yea not really. he might be overpayed, thats for sure, but at least he will be usefull to our (or any) team as a 3d/4th liner.

unlike Gomez, who is overplayed to the point that it actually has a serious effect on the cap and that when he's playing, he's not good enough for a top 6 role and more or less a nuisance playing in the bottom 6.

IMO Players like Bourque and Kabs are 'buy-out potential' if there are better players for those positions. Which might be the case.

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01-06-2013, 02:02 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Well, he makes 2.5 million a year for 4 years as an enforcer. I definitively think that if his performance isn't up to par he's a prime candidate.

I'll give you my brain so you can build arguments better.
He pks, he's a leader, he's physical he can score and since he can pk he's very reliable defensively.

Care to try again ?

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01-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #111
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For those saying Bourque because he was bad here, give him a chance. James Neal had 6 points in 20 games with Pittsburgh after a trade and he's now a point per game player. Bourque won't ever be that, but he can still be a valuable player for us. Also, if Markov injured himself again, he could be the second byout...

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01-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Yea not really. he might be overpayed, thats for sure, but at least he will be usefull to our (or any) team as a 3d/4th liner.

unlike Gomez, who is overplayed to the point that it actually has a serious effect on the cap and that when he's playing, he's not good enough for a top 6 role and more or less a nuisance playing in the bottom 6.

IMO Players like Bourque and Kabs are 'buy-out potential' if there are better players for those positions. Which might be the case.
Oh, if he does what he's supposed to, meaning bringing energy, physicality and fisticuffs, he could be worth every penny to this team. If he does it, it brings us something that we've been missing for a long, long time.

If he doesn't for whatever reason, he's not worth the pay for his hockey skills alone. Bob Probert he ain't. He's an alpha male enforcer on the bottom 6 or he's nothing.

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01-06-2013, 02:09 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
He pks, he's a leader, he's physical he can score and since he can pk he's very reliable defensively.

Care to try again ?
23 goals in 3 full seasons. He can score?

Travis Moen has the same in his last 3, for a lot less money. He also pks, is also a leader and is also reliable defensively.

Colby Armstrong has one goal more and has the other stuff too (Can't fight much, but heh). He makes less than even Moen, I'm thinking.

If he brings what he brought to NYR, then he's worth every penny. If he doesn't then he becomes grossly overpaid very fast.

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01-06-2013, 02:12 PM
  #114
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First, I agree with those saying it is premature to decide on that. We will have to see how both of them perform this season. One thing I feel strongly about is that Kaberle will have to be moved after this season as we will have to start integrating the new D wave currently in Hamilton. With Markov back, even not 100% the player he was, and PK, Diaz and Beaulieu, Kaberle becomes redundant considering his softness and poor defensive play. While Bourke will have three more years left on his contract, his cap hit is more managable and he can be that depth scorer on the third line. I hope Kaberle plays well enough to be tradable with the deadline with only one year left on his contract. Marek Zidliky case should help as he was in a silmilar situation contractwise and even worse perfomance-wise but was aquired by the Devils at the deadline and helped them during the playoff run.

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01-06-2013, 02:15 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
23 goals in 3 full seasons. He can score?

Travis Moen has the same in his last 3, for a lot less money. He also pks, is also a leader and is also reliable defensively.

Colby Armstrong has one goal more and has the other stuff too (Can't fight much, but heh). He makes less than even Moen, I'm thinking.

If he brings what he brought to NYR, then he's worth every penny. If he doesn't then he becomes grossly overpaid very fast.
Prust has cap hit of +650K compared to Moen. Really not the end of the world, like i said he's over payed, nothing serious though.
He will be another moen, effective 3d/4th liner.
There is really no reason to consider him towards a buyout, unless you took his vocal opinion during the lock out to seriously.

I didn't really like the signing that much, but at the end of the day, getting over-payed by a mil is really no big deal.

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01-06-2013, 02:15 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I'd keep both and see what's what but if we would have to buy out one of the two, I'd buy Gomez out twice.
I was drinking a beer until I got to "I'd buy Gomez out twice". I just finished cleaning up the beer spray that came out of my mouth and nose. Thanks a ton!

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01-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #117
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I say Gomez and Kab at the end of this year ( july ) Let MB re-balance the books, might even do a trade at the draft table.
As for Bourke? let MT change this player back to a good winger ( a project) if he can't Bourke can still be traded as an x-27goal guy.
Come next july 1st. MB can be in a position to buy a ufa or two.

overall, I would rather MB sets things up for another tank year, while he rights the money ship and sets things up for next year. Let Timmons go crazy again at the draft table. Finish in 1.5 years the total rebuild of the prospect pool, remember the 2013 draft is very very deep and habs already have more picks and with a dump or two MB can hand Timmons an ASSAULT rifle with two full clips for the draft.

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01-06-2013, 02:17 PM
  #118
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First, I agree with those saying it is premature to decide on that. We will have to see how both of them perform this season. One thing I feel strongly about is that Kaberle will have to be moved after this season as we will have to start integrating the new D wave currently in Hamilton. With Markov back, even not 100% the player he was, and PK, Diaz and Beaulieu, Kaberle becomes redundant considering his softness and poor defensive play. While Bourke will have three more years left on his contract, his cap hit is more managable and he can be that depth scorer on the third line. I hope Kaberle plays well enough to be tradable with the deadline with only one year left on his contract. Marek Zidliky case should help as he was in a silmilar situation contractwise and even worse perfomance-wise but was aquired by the Devils at the deadline and helped them during the playoff run.
Will we? I don't know about that. I assume you're talking about Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis? I'd assume we can bring in the most ready of those as a #9, injury replacement in 13-14, in the starting 6 in 14-15. IMHO none of them have been forcing the issue in Hamilton so far, they still have plenty of room for improvement.

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01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
  #119
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
those asking, Bill Daly confirmed you CANT use the compliance buyouts on players who have LTIR status, such as Chris Pronger.

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01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Locks View Post
First, I agree with those saying it is premature to decide on that. We will have to see how both of them perform this season. One thing I feel strongly about is that Kaberle will have to be moved after this season as we will have to start integrating the new D wave currently in Hamilton. With Markov back, even not 100% the player he was, and PK, Diaz and Beaulieu, Kaberle becomes redundant considering his softness and poor defensive play. While Bourke will have three more years left on his contract, his cap hit is more managable and he can be that depth scorer on the third line. I hope Kaberle plays well enough to be tradable with the deadline with only one year left on his contract. Marek Zidliky case should help as he was in a silmilar situation contractwise and even worse perfomance-wise but was aquired by the Devils at the deadline and helped them during the playoff run.
Excellent point.

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01-06-2013, 02:20 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by cphabs View Post
I was drinking a beer until I got to "I'd buy Gomez out twice". I just finished cleaning up the beer spray that came out of my mouth and nose. Thanks a ton!
I am sure his buyout will come with a FREE SET OF AIR CANADA tickets to anywhere in the world, ONE WAY

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01-06-2013, 02:22 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
23 goals in 3 full seasons. He can score?

Travis Moen has the same in his last 3, for a lot less money. He also pks, is also a leader and is also reliable defensively.

Colby Armstrong has one goal more and has the other stuff too (Can't fight much, but heh). He makes less than even Moen, I'm thinking.

If he brings what he brought to NYR, then he's worth every penny. If he doesn't then he becomes grossly overpaid very fast.
23 goals in 3 seasons for a bottom 6 player isn't too bad.

Habs had to overpay for him. Taxes are killer and he was highly sought after. I mean, just look at Gaustad.

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01-06-2013, 02:22 PM
  #123
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I didn't really like the signing that much, but at the end of the day, getting over-payed by a mil is really no big deal.
Then why the fuss over Bourque? Term?

I get the disappointment in Bourque, but at 3.3 million, I really don't see the brew-ha-ha with him nor do I see the same sense of urgency in buying him out as I do with someone like Gomez. He gets paid 800K more than Prust on similar term. Nothing back breaking. When you consider the winger depth of the habs, he isn't taking anyone else's roster spot either.

I'd like to see Kaberle bought out for the simple fact that we have too many softer puck moving D on the backend. Removing him will open up a spot for either one of Tinordi, Beaulieu or Ellis (if ready, though they may not be) or to bring in someone to complement the D core a lot better than what it is now.

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01-06-2013, 02:25 PM
  #124
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Will we? I don't know about that. I assume you're talking about Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis? I'd assume we can bring in the most ready of those as a #9, injury replacement in 13-14, in the starting 6 in 14-15. IMHO none of them have been forcing the issue in Hamilton so far, they still have plenty of room for improvement.
Yes, these three plus Pateryn who looked prety good before his injury. They sure have room for improvement but we already see the difference since the start of the season so it is reasonable to assume that at least one of them will be ready to start next season in Mtl and other playing some games depending on their progress and team's need (shutdown vs PMD).

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01-06-2013, 02:26 PM
  #125
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Time to find a loophole with these two compliance buyouts. for one, I say buy out Price, give him 2/3 of his salary and sign him at 1/3 of the salary for the same lenght of time. This would allow us to have more needed cap room down the road having Price on the book at a cap friendly hit of 2M/year!

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