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Old
01-06-2013, 12:12 PM
  #726
Tender Rip
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I am in between you guys. Personally I think the trust thing is partly in KIRKs head , but clearly Kulemin looks very good with Malkin from what we have been able to see in Magnitogorsk and International games. I think part of that is that his physical ability and defensive solidity compliments Malkin especially well, and he has enough ability on the puck to excel in a third wheel role.

That said, it doesn't have to be Kulemin, and Malkin is - offensively - just about the best player in the world at getting the best out of others. As long as he doesn't play with Dupuis, I'd say (where others like to slag poor Kennedy for having played a few shifts with our superstars without scoring), and as long as it is remembered what kind of qualities Malkin needs around him to excel.

In the final analysis, I am sure Shero isn't blind to what Malkin is doing with Kulemin (and Mozyakin) right now. When the time will come to try and make deals, surely feelers will be sent out and then it is a matter of what is being asked.

Before going gung-ho on Kulemin though, I would like to get a top6 forward who can also inhabit that left wall on the PP with a RH shot. If we don't have that, I think there will be lots of frustration with our PP again this season.... to the point that people will get misty thinking about Sullivan.

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01-06-2013, 12:13 PM
  #727
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Well, FWIW, I was in the camp LAST YEAR that said Martin for Malone and let Despres play (even if that was a risk, moving Kunitz back with Sid would be worth it for the playoffs).
Yep, you did. In hindsight, it would've been a good move. I didn't want Malone at that price (still don't, really), but Martin fell off a cliff worse than I ever thought possible.

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01-06-2013, 12:14 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Before going gung-ho on Kulemin though, I would like to get a top6 forward who can also inhabit that left wall on the PP with a RH shot. If we don't have that, I think there will be lots of frustration with our PP again this season.... to the point that people will get misty thinking about Sullivan.
Yeah - this was a lot more crucial to our PP than some people realize, I think. Bennett's promotion might be worth it for that alone, if there are no established options out there.

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01-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
I am in between you guys. Personally I think the trust thing is partly in KIRKs head , but clearly Kulemin looks very good with Malkin from what we have been able to see in Magnitogorsk and International games. I think part of that is that his physical ability and defensive solidity compliments Malkin especially well, and he has enough ability on the puck to excel in a third wheel role.

That said, it doesn't have to be Kulemin, and Malkin is - offensively - just about the best player in the world at getting the best out of others. As long as he doesn't play with Dupuis, I'd say (where others like to slag poor Kennedy for having played a few shifts with our superstars without scoring), and as long as it is remembered what kind of qualities Malkin needs around him to excel.

In the final analysis, I am sure Shero isn't blind to what Malkin is doing with Kulemin (and Mozyakin) right now. When the time will come to try and make deals, surely feelers will be sent out and then it is a matter of what is being asked.

Before going gung-ho on Kulemin though, I would like to get a top6 forward who can also inhabit that left wall on the PP with a RH shot. If we don't have that, I think there will be lots of frustration with our PP again this season.... to the point that people will get misty thinking about Sullivan.
1. I think that's really what appeals about Kulemin. Even if you'd never seen him play a shift with Geno and only had seen him with Grabovski and MacArthur, you'd see how Kulemin would complement Malkin and Neal (perhaps to a greater degree than Kunitz).

2. TRUST may be a bad choice of words, I'll admit. But, I think you'll agree that Geno goes on these kicks where he'll try to do it all himself and develops tunnel vision on the ice. The only two guys where I really didn't see him do this so much were with Malone and Talbot. He's got a similar dynamic with Kulemin. If there's a better word choice, then I'm open to suggestions.

3. We definitely could use a right handed PP shot. Then again, what we REALLY need is a guy who can play in front of the net on the PP. When we had Malone, all the left handed shots wasn't a problem. Guerin filled in o'k during the cup run. We haven't had (or used) anyone since.

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01-06-2013, 12:19 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yeah - this was a lot more crucial to our PP than some people realize, I think. Bennett's promotion might be worth it for that alone, if there are no established options out there.
This is why I put Sid or Geno at the point where Letang was last year, and Letang where Sullivan was last year. Its still 4 forwards, but its Crosby instead of Sullivan. And we don't have to sit Neal to get Sid back in. Sid, Geno, Kunitz, Neal and Letang should be the top powerplay. That's the only way it really works right imo.

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01-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yep, you did. In hindsight, it would've been a good move. I didn't want Malone at that price (still don't, really), but Martin fell off a cliff worse than I ever thought possible.
Malone isn't my first choice (one reason I like Kulemin, a 2.8M cap hit this year and next). That said, I saw him as the guy to allow you to slide Kunitz up with Sid.

My call last year, if memory serves, was Martin for Malone, Kennedy and a pick/prospect for Stewart, and then a deal for Grossman (I think I suggested Jeffrey, Strait or Bortuzzo, and a 2nd).

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01-06-2013, 12:21 PM
  #732
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This is why I put Sid or Geno at the point where Letang was last year, and Letang where Sullivan was last year. Its still 4 forwards, but its Crosby instead of Sullivan. And we don't have to sit Neal to get Sid back in. Sid, Geno, Kunitz, Neal and Letang should be the top powerplay. That's the only way it really works right imo.
I still think a true net front presence matters more.

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01-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #733
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Malone isn't my first choice (one reason I like Kulemin, a 2.8M cap hit this year and next). That said, I saw him as the guy to allow you to slide Kunitz up with Sid.

My call last year, if memory serves, was Martin for Malone, Kennedy and a pick/prospect for Stewart, and then a deal for Grossman (I think I suggested Jeffrey, Strait or Bortuzzo, and a 2nd).
I don't care if Cooke is the best we have, Kunitz needs to slide up with Sid.

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01-06-2013, 12:24 PM
  #734
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I still think a true net front presence matters more.
That would be nice. I don't think the RHS is as important as others do. We have 3 LHS forwards who all need to be in there in Sid, Geno and Neal. Letang is a RHS defenseman who can shoot pretty well. I would rather rotate the lines this way than sit Neal while putting Bennett in Sully's spot from last year.

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01-06-2013, 12:26 PM
  #735
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I don't care if Cooke is the best we have, Kunitz needs to slide up with Sid.
I do agree there.

It's why I wanted the deal for Malone last year, because I knew this would need to happen when the playoffs came. And, it did. Timonen got a free pass against Sid with Sully and Dupuis for linemates.

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01-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #736
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I do agree there.

It's why I wanted the deal for Malone last year, because I knew this would need to happen when the playoffs came. And, it did. Timonen got a free pass against Sid with Sully and Dupuis for linemates.
for sure. I don't know how that change never happened. I also don't know how most people here still think Kunitz should stay with Malkin and Neal without bringing in any new wings.

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01-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #737
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Geno is done in the KHL.


Good.

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01-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
This is why I put Sid or Geno at the point where Letang was last year, and Letang where Sullivan was last year. Its still 4 forwards, but its Crosby instead of Sullivan. And we don't have to sit Neal to get Sid back in. Sid, Geno, Kunitz, Neal and Letang should be the top powerplay. That's the only way it really works right imo.
I want Letang on the PP, I just don't think he's a sly enough passer to keep things moving from the half wall like Sullivan did. I mean, he has trouble putting it in Malkin's wheelhouse when he has all day, haha.

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Malone isn't my first choice (one reason I like Kulemin, a 2.8M cap hit this year and next). That said, I saw him as the guy to allow you to slide Kunitz up with Sid.
That's true, but I figure any number of scoring wings could allow us to do that. I don't think we should have to pay a recent 1st rounder plus to get a guy who produced like Kulemin did last year, whatever his other positive attributes or potential upside here.

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My call last year, if memory serves, was Martin for Malone, Kennedy and a pick/prospect for Stewart, and then a deal for Grossman (I think I suggested Jeffrey, Strait or Bortuzzo, and a 2nd).
Yeah, I was pretty big on the Stewart train last year. I was so sure we'd get another scoring winger at the deadline that I bet Jiggy I'd stick my head in a mayo jar if we didn't. Did not turn out well.

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01-06-2013, 12:33 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I want Letang on the PP, I just don't think he's a sly enough passer to keep things moving from the half wall like Sullivan did. I mean, he has trouble putting it in Malkin's wheelhouse when he has all day, haha.
Not disagreeing, but I also don't want to go with 5 forwards. And I just can't see how you can sit Neal to bring in Bennett when Letang is certainly capable there. Sid, Geno and Neal all need to be out there until we have the guns to run two full units.

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01-06-2013, 12:36 PM
  #740
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Not disagreeing, but I also don't want to go with 5 forwards. And I just can't see how you can sit Neal to bring in Bennett when Letang is certainly capable there. Sid, Geno and Neal all need to be out there until we have the guns to run two full units.
Sid, Geno, Neal, Letang, and RH winger would be fine with me. I don't think Kunitz brings much to the PP at all - he doesn't have the skill to maintain possession or create plays, and he doesn't have the size or hands in-tight to be effective in front of the net.

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01-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Sid, Geno, Neal, Letang, and RH winger would be fine with me. I don't think Kunitz brings much to the PP at all - he doesn't have the skill to maintain possession or create plays, and he doesn't have the size or hands in-tight to be effective in front of the net.
At that point I think we'd be better off bringing in a better net presence than a RHS. You just need someone in that spot on the PP.

enter: The Big Dog

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01-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Sid, Geno, Neal, Letang, and RH winger would be fine with me. I don't think Kunitz brings much to the PP at all - he doesn't have the skill to maintain possession or create plays, and he doesn't have the size or hands in-tight to be effective in front of the net.
Need someone to stand in front of the net. Not gonna be a popular opinion, but Neal comes off if we acquire a RHS.

They sure as hell better not run a 5 forward unit again. Disastrous against teams like Philly.

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01-06-2013, 12:41 PM
  #743
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Need someone to stand in front of the net. Not gonna be a popular opinion, but Neal comes off if we acquire a RHS.

They sure as hell better not run a 5 forward unit again. Disastrous against teams like Philly.
Ya, Neal sits before the net presence guy whether that's Kunitz or Tangradi or whoever. Unless Neal takes the spot himself.

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01-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #744
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Not bad for the last game:
Malkin 1+2
Mozyakin 2+1
Kulemin 0+3

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01-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #745
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Letangs travels the last day ^^


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01-06-2013, 01:00 PM
  #746
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Ya, Neal sits before the net presence guy whether that's Kunitz or Tangradi or whoever. Unless Neal takes the spot himself.
I don't think it would be a smart move to take the guy who scored the most PP goals in the NHL off the 1st unit. I doubt that would improve it.

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At that point I think we'd be better off bringing in a better net presence than a RHS. You just need someone in that spot on the PP.

enter: The Big Dog
Meh, Neal could rotate in and out of that slot. A legit net-front presence would be great, but we have too many"necessary" 1st unit PP players, and nobody good enough in front of the net to justify taking them off.

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01-06-2013, 01:06 PM
  #747
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I don't think it would be a smart move to take the guy who scored the most PP goals in the NHL off the 1st unit. I doubt that would improve it.
I don't either. But that's exactly what happened when Sid came back last year. And then experimenting started and it got ugly.
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Meh, Neal could rotate in and out of that slot. A legit net-front presence would be great, but we have too many"necessary" 1st unit PP players, and nobody good enough in front of the net to justify taking them off.
We don't have anybody good enough to justify taking Kunitz out either. The net front spot is basically essential on the PP. Its more important than anything Bennett will add at this point in his career.

------Kunitz------
-------------Neal
-----------------Geno
-Letang------------
-------------Sid----

We have 3 essential PP guys. I'd say Letang is a 4th since we really do want a D-man out there. Personally, I think Net Front Guy is an essential position no matter who you put there. I don't care if its Cooke.

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01-06-2013, 01:14 PM
  #748
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I don't either. But that's exactly what happened when Sid came back last year. And then experimenting started and it got ugly.
Yeah, that was crazy.

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We don't have anybody good enough to justify taking Kunitz out either. The net front spot is basically essential on the PP. Its more important than anything Bennett will add at this point in his career.

------Kunitz------
-------------Neal
-----------------Geno
-Letang------------
-------------Sid----
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I really don't think Kunitz brings anything productive to the PP - he's just not good in front of the net. And I'm usually a big proponent of getting guys in goalies' grills.

Two PP units splitting up Sid and Geno would probably be best for all concerned, but we know that's never going to happen.

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01-06-2013, 01:20 PM
  #749
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Yeah, that was crazy.



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I really don't think Kunitz brings anything productive to the PP - he's just not good in front of the net. And I'm usually a big proponent of getting guys in goalies' grills.
Then use Cooke or Tangradi. I just don't see who we have that is so good that we shouldn't have a net front guy. And if we are looking to add someone, I would think it would obviously be a better net front guy. Its the only position we don't really have anybody to adequately fill.

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Two PP units splitting up Sid and Geno would probably be best for all concerned, but we know that's never going to happen.
I think we need a few more weapons for that to be worth it. When Bennett and Morrow are around, then it might be the way to go though.

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01-06-2013, 01:22 PM
  #750
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Geno was again a beast tonight (1+2). That was a great match overall, his team lost, but he´s playing his absolute best hockey. He´s definitely 100%. Easily could´ve scored 4 goals in that game.

He also scored 31 (!!!) points in his last 11 games in KHL, so I think he should be ready to go

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