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01-03-2013, 02:18 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
Anybody suggesting we win on gleason for JJ needs to step back from jr's punch bowl. Regardless, this is an issue even I have tired of arguing about. We panicked and traded a top prospect for an average joe who could play now, with a couple other peices thrown in both ways to make it more "even". It was a risky trade, and impossible to say how things would be different.

I personally hated both the JJ and Ladd trades. Neither helped us, and its always easier to root for our own kids IMO, and both of those players are guys we currently lack stylistically that would be nice to have. The players we got are likeable and valuable in their own right, but its hard to argue in either case we traded future for now. It is what it is. Jr has never been afraid to roll those dice, and did again this past summer. It's ok to slam jr for it, I've watched him do it since 95. It's painful. Still not all of them are bad moves, and defending them in the name of making the team better now is fair too. I just hate that style. Draft well, develop your kids. Don't panic. Still it's over and let's focus on the staal trade if we need to argue over potential risky trades. We could've had jstaal for free in 6 months. We knew a lockout was coming. Better to get your guy when you're sure you can? I'm ok with it. I like Jstaal and think sutter was always gonna struggle to develop here.
I was initially against trading Sutter for Staal straight up since we couldve rolled the dice on signing him in the next offseason. But once it happened it didn't bother me because I realized it would retain the Staal legacy in a Skinner hyped caniac nation. Not only that, but Summer Ruutu pointed out that Sather would've most likely threw more money toward Jordan's way and united the Staals in New York in due time.

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01-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
I was initially against trading Sutter for Staal straight up since we couldve rolled the dice on signing him in the next offseason. But once it happened it didn't bother me because I realized it would retain the Staal legacy in a Skinner hyped caniac nation. Not only that, but Summer Ruutu pointed out that Sather would've most likely threw more money toward Jordan's way and united the Staals in New York in due time.
And there was no guarantee that with the new CBA, Jordan would still be a UFA after this season (if there are changes to the RFA period).

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01-03-2013, 02:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
I was initially against trading Sutter for Staal straight up since we couldve rolled the dice on signing him in the next offseason. But once it happened it didn't bother me because I realized it would retain the Staal legacy in a Skinner hyped caniac nation. Not only that, but Summer Ruutu pointed out that Sather would've most likely threw more money toward Jordan's way and united the Staals in New York in due time.
Well it's not necessarily about throwing more money at Staal. The Rangers and Leafs were both HEAVILY bidding against us for him. It's most likely that we were going to be the only option long term, but JR wasn't going to take that chance. He still overpaid though, big time.

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01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Well it's not necessarily about throwing more money at Staal. The Rangers and Leafs were both HEAVILY bidding against us for him. It's most likely that we were going to be the only option long term, but JR wasn't going to take that chance. He still overpaid though, big time.
Sometimes you gotta overpay tho. Kinda like when we brought in Doug Weight for the cup run.

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01-03-2013, 02:46 PM
  #55
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I really don't think JR overpaid that much though. Could he have gotten the 22nd overall pick or another 2nd rounder? Sure. But would it be worth losing Jordan Staal to NYR/TOR though? Not in my opinion.

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01-03-2013, 02:47 PM
  #56
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For a minute I thought I had arrived at a completely different thread.

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01-03-2013, 02:52 PM
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This is the last that I will say about JJ in this thread. Ask Kings fans what they think about him now that he is gone and the specter of trying to explain his deficiencies have passed. It's very likely that he'll get back on track with a solid defense in Columbus, but he was hot garbage for the majority of his time with the Kings.

As for the Staal trade, I think we don't have enough to really judge on at this point. It was a classic speculation move by JR. If a guy is putting up 55-60 points in a system that is somewhat restrictive by minutes, people want to project that upwards. However, as Buffalo learned with Ville Leino, producing points on a good team does not automatically translate to producing a ton of points on an inferior team for all intents and purposes. If it works out, JR didn't overpay at all for Staal. It was a risk worth taking regardless, but I don't know how history will view that deal if Staal and Sutter end up being roughly the same player.

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01-03-2013, 02:53 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Well it's not necessarily about throwing more money at Staal. The Rangers and Leafs were both HEAVILY bidding against us for him. It's most likely that we were going to be the only option long term, but JR wasn't going to take that chance. He still overpaid though, big time.
I suppose your right. All of those teams were viable options, but maybe Eric gave some extra props to the Raleigh area. New York probably offered up the same package as they did with Nash, in which case id probably give the slight edge to our offer.

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01-03-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
I suppose your right. All of those teams were viable options, but maybe Eric gave some extra props to the Raleigh area. New York probably offered up the same package as they did with Nash, in which case id probably give the slight edge to our offer.
Heh, I disagree.

Anisimov + Dubinsky >>>> Sutter
Erixon > Dumoulin
8th overall >> NYR 2013 1st

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01-03-2013, 03:08 PM
  #60
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Fwiw I dont think the Canes won the JJ trade, but I also don't think they got taken to the cleaners either.

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01-03-2013, 03:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Heh, I disagree.

Anisimov + Dubinsky >>>> Sutter
Erixon > Dumoulin
8th overall >> NYR 2013 1st
Not that it should make that much of a difference, but I didnt factor in NYs first round pick.

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01-03-2013, 03:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
I suppose your right. All of those teams were viable options, but maybe Eric gave some extra props to the Raleigh area. New York probably offered up the same package as they did with Nash, in which case id probably give the slight edge to our offer.
Nah, there's no way they offered both Anisimov and Dubinsky along with Erixon and a 1st for Staal.

They probably offered Anisimov/Erixon + 1st.

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01-03-2013, 07:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Mint Babchuk Crunch View Post
Good thing they didn't give that expensive contract to Erik Cole. I still can't believe they let him walk only to spend that money on Ruutu.
Wow, I didn't think of that. Ruutu scored 18 goals last year and Cole scored 35. Just think if we'd given Cole the contract and committed to let Ruutu walk, we could have a top six of semin-e. staal-cole and jokinen-j. staal-skinner. Wow.

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01-03-2013, 08:11 PM
  #64
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Disappointing news to say the least. Rather unfortunate that this decision could not have been made in September.

At least there is the possibility that Ruutu could make it back late in the playoffs if the Canes make a push.

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01-03-2013, 09:33 PM
  #65
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We all do wish Ruutu a speedy recovery.

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01-03-2013, 09:36 PM
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We all do wish Ruutu a speedy recovery.

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01-04-2013, 07:17 AM
  #67
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Ofcourse if/when they cancel the season this wont matter a that much (except to Ruutu obviously who is surely in a lot of pain)

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01-04-2013, 01:15 PM
  #68
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Had Ruutu been playing in Finland?

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01-04-2013, 01:23 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Shutdown Sutter View Post
Had Ruutu been playing in Finland?
Trying to rehab from his injury here in town IIRC. I believe he had an agreement to play with a team, but only after getting back to full health.

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01-04-2013, 01:35 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
This is the last that I will say about JJ in this thread. Ask Kings fans what they think about him now that he is gone and the specter of trying to explain his deficiencies have passed. It's very likely that he'll get back on track with a solid defense in Columbus, but he was hot garbage for the majority of his time with the Kings.

As for the Staal trade, I think we don't have enough to really judge on at this point. It was a classic speculation move by JR. If a guy is putting up 55-60 points in a system that is somewhat restrictive by minutes, people want to project that upwards. However, as Buffalo learned with Ville Leino, producing points on a good team does not automatically translate to producing a ton of points on an inferior team for all intents and purposes. If it works out, JR didn't overpay at all for Staal. It was a risk worth taking regardless, but I don't know how history will view that deal if Staal and Sutter end up being roughly the same player.
I don't think the Canes won or lost the JJ trade, but I think they came a whole lot closer to winning than losing. While I think JR could have gotten more in a trade than Gleason and Belanger--Gleason was still a very well thought of upcoming d-man and more than worthy of bringing into a system lacking in physical players who could skate. I think the bigger risk was JJ staying at Michigan for 4 years and then not signing with the Canes at all--and a second round pick is definitely worse than Gleason and Belanger. More of the blame needs to be pointed at Karmanos for forcing the JJ pick to tweak Ilitch then it really needs to be pointed at JR for the trade it may have been forced into.

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01-06-2013, 05:45 AM
  #71
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Can he be Amnesty-bought while on LTIR? I would be surprised from a NHLPA view. So if he's out all year as suggested, can the LTIR him and have even more CAP space this year to sign someone else?

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01-06-2013, 08:50 AM
  #72
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Can he be Amnesty-bought while on LTIR? I would be surprised from a NHLPA view. So if he's out all year as suggested, can the LTIR him and have even more CAP space this year to sign someone else?

Are the Canes suddenly against the cap? They can sign anyone as far as I know...in regards to cap space. Jimmy can trade for Cole at this point. Would love to know if there's a trade deadline for the shorty season....and how long it takes Jimmy to get Cole. Maybe Montreal would take Corvo...wouldn't that be ironic?

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01-06-2013, 08:51 AM
  #73
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Tlutsy-E.Staal-Semin
Skinner-J.Staal-Cole

boner

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01-06-2013, 08:59 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Mint Babchuk Crunch View Post
Tlutsy-E.Staal-Semin
Skinner-J.Staal-Cole

boner
Replace Tlusty with LaRose and you've got Rutherfords dream team.

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Old
01-06-2013, 01:38 PM
  #75
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I'm hoping JR tries to bring in a UFA on a 1-year deal to try and replace the spot left by Ruutu.
Possible Options:
Jonathan Cheechoo - risky Yes, but would be very cheap.

Patrick O'sullivan - he's only been with the team once

Andrew Brunette - Best option in my mind. Physically not an even trade-off, but offensively just as capable as Ruutu.

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