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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

God forbid Canada should think they're the best

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Old
01-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #101
fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Canada has lost four WJC in a row. Two of them were on Canadian ice and the other one was extremely close to the Canadian border. They had their best available players this tournament and did not medal. Hockey Canada needs to make a few adjustments in the years ahead.
I agree.

Especially in terms of mental preparation. There is something wrong with a team that can consistently win the lesser inportant qualifying games and then lose BAD in the important medal round games.

In that realm, we have fallen behind. Perhaps it is coaching, perhaps it is with overconfidence...I am not sure. But we are entering those games unprepared for some reason.

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01-06-2013, 02:00 PM
  #102
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A lot of confirmation bias among Canadians here lately. Guys, we're not the powerhouse we were 5-10 years ago, and the gap between us and other countries has closed considerably. Accept it and get over it. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they're wrong.

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01-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I agree.

Especially in terms of mental preparation. There is something wrong with a team that can consistently win the lesser inportant qualifying games and then lose BAD in the important medal round games.

In that realm, we have fallen behind. Perhaps it is coaching, perhaps it is with overconfidence...I am not sure. But we are entering those games unprepared for some reason.
There are three issues, goaltending, coaching and speed.

Mental preparation does matter but I think that goes along with coaching too.

Just thinking about it now and besides Spott I think Canada has had pretty good coaching recently.

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01-06-2013, 02:04 PM
  #104
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Hockey Canada picked a bad team.... quit boo hooing already.
This. They picked their team, and they ****ed up doing so. While I didn't see much of Russia or Sweden, the US team really pulled together, and they deserved that gold. The talent they're producing is pretty damn amazing.

As a Canadian, all we can do is hope that these players learn from these experiences, and get better because of it. Shake it off, find out what went wrong, and try to fix it for next season.

As for the OP, lighten up man. At the end of the day, it's a game. Sometimes teams exceed expectations, and sometimes teams just falter altogether. If you let yourself get worked up every time our country loses a game of hockey, then you're going to have a very disappointing life. The favorites don't always win.


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01-06-2013, 02:25 PM
  #105
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Wouldn't this be a superiority complex?
It's an inferiority complex because the OP (and others) are so insecure about the possibility of being inferior that they have taken to ranting about it on the internet to save face. This is common. People compensate for their insecurities by building up this superior image and when that gets challenged they feel the need to bitterly defend it. Notice who is starting all of these threads about Canada losing. It's mostly (if not entirely) Canadians. No one disputes that Canada has an impeccable hockey pedigree. Some Canadians just need to convince themselves that they still have it by lashing out at any sort of criticism (real or imagined).

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01-06-2013, 02:26 PM
  #106
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Personally I don't see this as Canada saying they should always be the best. Their goal at every World Juniors is to win the Gold and anything less then that would be a disappoinment. Players from every other country would say the same thing and I don't see anything wrong with that type of thinking.

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01-06-2013, 02:27 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BeerMe View Post
It's an inferiority complex because the OP (and others) are so insecure about the possibility of being inferior that they have taken to ranting about it on the internet to save face. This is common. People compensate for their insecurities by building up this superior image and when that gets challenged they feel the need to bitterly defend it. Notice who is starting all of these threads about Canada losing. It's mostly (if not entirely) Canadians. No one disputes that Canada has an impeccable hockey pedigree. Some Canadians just need to convince themselves that they still have it by lashing out at any sort of criticism (real or imagined).
Sadly, this is true.

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01-06-2013, 02:28 PM
  #108
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You're completely missing his point.

So what if they're the "model franchise?" People care more about who the best is at the moment. Just because the Red Wings are the model franchise doesn't mean they're the best right now. Being the best > being a model franchise.

All people care about is who won. Recently.
Not that I am dismissing the World Juniors but the biggest hockey stage is the Olympics and Canada won the most recent one.

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01-06-2013, 02:32 PM
  #109
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Canada also does not do well at the WHC. They haven't medalled in three years and have not won gold in 6.

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01-06-2013, 02:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by jimmycarter View Post
despite not winning a war since, god knows when, america is still the best at it.

canada is still the best at hockey, and we don't need a U20 tourny to determine that.
Awesome post coming from someone with your user name.

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01-06-2013, 02:37 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Personally I don't see this as Canada saying they should always be the best. Their goal at every World Juniors is to win the Gold and anything less then that would be a disappoinment. Players from every other country would say the same thing and I don't see anything wrong with that type of thinking.
There is nothing wrong with this, but going on a hockey forum and creating threads about how they're still #1, while trying to put down other countries, just isn't very... well, Canadian.

There is a difference between disappointment, and just ignorance/insecurity.

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01-06-2013, 02:40 PM
  #112
fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
There are three issues, goaltending, coaching and speed.

Mental preparation does matter but I think that goes along with coaching too.

Just thinking about it now and besides Spott I think Canada has had pretty good coaching recently.
People who analyze this for a living and (understandably) know more about that than either one of us...agree with me.

Anyone out there who thinks we are worse now than we were in terms of skill than 10 years ago...or that we are somehow falling behind in terms of talent...has zero credibility with me. They obviosly do not follow the game like I do.

Every nation produces great players, from Finland to Sweden to Canada to Russia, etc.

The difference for us has always been things like leadership, preparation, and effort. THAT is were we have fallen off.

Take the 1993 team. Remember them (if you are old enough)? The reason that team won gold when they were easily weaker than Sweden on paper was because they had guys rise to the occasion (Manny Legace). It wasn't that Manny was so much better than any other goalie in that tourney, it was that he and the rest of that team rose to the occasion.

Why did they do that? I am not sure. I am not in charge of Hockey Canada. But that is where we have lost our way, and we need to look at ways to find that again.

In terms of skills progression and system work, other countries still use Hockey Canada as the model, so it is ridiculous to say that it is our skill development. Those types of statements are made by people have no idea about the inner workings of Hockey Canada.

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01-06-2013, 02:40 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 8th Rounder View Post
Not that I am dismissing the World Juniors but the biggest hockey stage is the Olympics and Canada won the most recent one.
Agreed 100% with you on that.

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01-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
It is Canada's game. The only country where hockey is #1 (our official winter sport), we have the most hockey players of any country in the world and most NHLers, ice hockey was invented here, the first organized game was played here, we have more gold medals at the WJC than any other nation, 24 WC gold medals and 8 Olympic golds (including the last two). Hockey is broadcast here on a level like nowhere else in the world and is massively popular across the country.
Just to correct that, Canada won gold in 2002 and 2010. 2006 it was Sweden.

In fact, of the 4 best-on-best tournaments, Canada (and the US) did great in North America (SL City and Vancouver), but they didn't even medal in Nagano and Turin.

I guess I'm saying "home ice" matters.

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01-06-2013, 02:43 PM
  #115
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I hate to admit it, but Canada isn't the clear cut best hockey nation in the world anymore. It's the big 4 now. Russia, Sweden, USA and Canada.

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01-06-2013, 02:48 PM
  #116
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Perhaps this mentality is the reason why Canada hasn't won the WJC in 4 years

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01-06-2013, 02:50 PM
  #117
fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by Xavier Ouellet View Post
I hate to admit it, but Canada isn't the clear cut best hockey nation in the world anymore. It's the big 4 now. Russia, Sweden, USA and Canada.
It has been like this for 40 years now. Just throw the Czechs and Finns in there, too.

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01-06-2013, 02:59 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Canada also does not do well at the WHC. They haven't medalled in three years and have not won gold in 6.
Yeah but Canada doesn't send it's best team and no one cares about it!!1!1.

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Old
01-06-2013, 03:09 PM
  #119
fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Canada also does not do well at the WHC. They haven't medalled in three years and have not won gold in 6.
Honestly, can we put our lack of success in this tournament to bed? When your best d-man is Steve Staois, I think you can safely say you have not sent your "A" squad to that tournament.

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01-06-2013, 03:24 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Honestly, can we put our lack of success in this tournament to bed? When your best d-man is Steve Staois, I think you can safely say you have not sent your "A" squad to that tournament.
For all the talk about Canada's "depth" and how your "D" team is allegedly good enough to medal at the Olympics, having to actually ice it is a valid excuse for not winning the supposedly much inferior World Championship?

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01-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #121
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No doubt our best are better than any other country's best. See Olympics
So you haven't been the best from 2006 to 2010? Right?

Shut out by Switzerland and Russia and didn't even make the semis....

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01-06-2013, 03:30 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Honestly, can we put our lack of success in this tournament to bed? When your best d-man is Steve Staois, I think you can safely say you have not sent your "A" squad to that tournament.
Take a look at the squads from a previous few years, they are pretty damn good and certainly should have done better than they did. I don't care much about the tournament but you are just making stuff up here.

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01-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #123
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20 years looks like a random sample size. Why not twenty? Why not thirty? Oh, they both wouldn't favour Canada as much.

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01-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by KRM View Post
No one tournament no, but how about two? U20 Canada fails to medal, U17 Canada fails to medal.
You realize of course that Canada uses 5 regional teams at the U17 level.

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01-06-2013, 03:36 PM
  #125
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Probably because the rest of the world now has most of their junior development in Canada (chl). I think this really levels the playing field.
Gibson was better than any Canadian goalie at the u17 championships and better than any Canadian goalie at the u18 championships before he ever played a single CHL game.

How is he CHL developed when he was already better than anyone in your system?

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