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Cherry: CHL should stop letting Americans and Europeans to play in CHL (merged)

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Old
01-06-2013, 03:55 PM
  #526
CarlWinslow
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
Sure but good ol' Donster has been spewing this same kind of crap for 30 years now and he's hugely popular, what's up with that?
The Cherry phenomenon is not any different than in the USA where you have your own aging blowhards that still have bog time followings.

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01-06-2013, 03:56 PM
  #527
black charger
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
I thought this was about elite development? That less talented daughter probably has zero chance of representing her country in her sport so what difference does it make? And if she is indeed good enough, she'll still find a way to make it.
What if she was just a late bloomer and with a couple of years of good coaching improved enough.

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01-06-2013, 03:57 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
When my very talented daughter comes to your high school and displaces your very talented but maybe not quite as talented daughter on her own basketball team and costs her a scholarship, my guess is you will have a different outlook.

Don't forget, we are talking about the development of 16-19 year old players here, not adults. That is the key difference in this discussion.
If you're talking personal, my daughter would kick your daughters ass up and down the court all day long.

If you are talking what is happening now, look on USCHO.com and see how many roster spots are taken by Canadian residents.

It's happening. Quit acting like there will be some upset people the day it does happen when it already is

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01-06-2013, 03:59 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Any idea on how many NCAA players on the Canadian roster?
Too lazy to look at them all but one team check has Minnesota State with 7 Disregard. my answer Totally misread. I can blame my cold medication


Last edited by UvBnDatsyuked: 01-06-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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01-06-2013, 03:59 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
I'm sorry, what does this have to do with anything? Are we talking about developing the very best athletes in their sport or hurt feelings here?
that was my attempt at sarcasm, guess i should have used the smiley. Just supporting what youre saying about elite talent development in the discussion

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01-06-2013, 04:00 PM
  #531
BobDobolina
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
What if she was just a late bloomer and with a couple of years of good coaching improved enough.
Better make girls basketball teams 100 strong then, just to make sure you don't miss one of those! Like I said, if she is talented enough, she'll find a way to make it if that's what she wants out of her life.

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01-06-2013, 04:01 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
that was my attempt at sarcasm, guess i should have used the smiley. Just supporting what youre saying about elite talent development in the discussion
My bad, thought you were in the same boat as the guy I was responding to.

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01-06-2013, 04:03 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
It's a moot point since no Canadian player is being displaced from Canadian CHL teams anyway.
How is that so? If you add just one player from another country, doesn't that push one player off at the end?

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01-06-2013, 04:19 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by UvBnDatsyuked View Post
How is that so? If you add just one player from another country, doesn't that push one player off at the end?
Which means a maximum of 180 or so of the worst CHL players drop down to Junior A.

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01-06-2013, 04:20 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Doesn't giving out scholarships for sports and free accomadations equate to to a pay cheque.I here the tuitions at some universities are very high.
It's really not worth looking into logically explaining NCAA decisions.

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01-06-2013, 04:20 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by UvBnDatsyuked View Post
How is that so? If you add just one player from another country, doesn't that push one player off at the end?
The proportion of Canadian players in the CHL is the exact same one as the proportion of Canadian teams in the CHL.

Make the CHL Canadian-only and there's not one additional roster spot for Canadian players, unless of course you expect the American teams to continue developing Canadian players whose fathers never contributed a cent to the USA.

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01-06-2013, 04:23 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Which means a maximum of 180 or so of the worst CHL players drop down to Junior A.
I'm not sure where that figure comes from but there are just enough non-Canadian players in the CHL to fill the rosters of the non-Canadian teams.

Not one Canadian player drops down to junior A as a result of the CHL not being Canadian-only.

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01-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Any idea on how many NCAA players on the Canadian roster?
0

last year there was 1.

2011: 2

2010: 0

2009: 1

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01-06-2013, 04:26 PM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
I'm not sure where that figure comes from but there are just enough non-Canadian players in the CHL to fill the rosters of the non-Canadian teams.

Not one Canadian player drops down to junior A as a result of the CHL not being Canadian-only.
Well I didn't count Americans separately. The number comes from the two per team limit on imports. I don't know off the top of my head how many teams are in the CHL but I assumed a max of 90 and multiplied by 2. No elite talent is being pushed out of the CHL.

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01-06-2013, 04:26 PM
  #540
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Why do people care about stuff people say on twitter?

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01-06-2013, 04:28 PM
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational, cheaper, and less competative form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.
The CHL is not full of Czechs, Russians and Slovaks. Each team can have a maximum of 2 non North American players. The situation you describe already exists in NCAA hockey and basketball. Why does nobody get mad in the US? One, nobody cares about international events enough. Two, if you aren't good enough to beat out a similarly talented foreigner, nobody wants to see you play just for your passport.

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01-06-2013, 04:29 PM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational, cheaper, and less competative form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.
I think you are reading far too much into the literal name of the league. Does the Kontinental Hockey League only allow those from the European continent to play in the league? Is the National Hockey League only compromised of only one nation? Is the AHL made up only of Americans? USHL? SEL?

The CHL being a Canadian only league would be selling the league short. It is the premier U-20 league in the world, Canadians should be prideful that others want to go there to play hockey, not closing their doors to those international players.



Kenny Powers: Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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01-06-2013, 04:33 PM
  #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I guess the first question I would pose is this...is the NCAA "developmental" for hockey players, or is it a destination in and of itself?

Second, can the NCAA compete with only American players?

If it is developmental, and it could compete without foreign born players, then I would say yes, it should only offer scholarships to American players.

But I guess I would add this...if you look at our CFL in Canada, we have restrictions on the number of US players that are allowed to play on each team...but the CFL could not exist without American football players. We have the numbers, but it would be of such a terrible quality that no one would want to watch it. Would the same be true for the NCAA? Maybe, but then again, the NCAA may be developmental, whereas the CFL is not...so that may be the difference.

In all honesty, I am not qualified to decide whether the NCAA is developmental or a destination for the best players of that age group regardless of nationality.
The best players in the NCAA are generally Americans, with a elite Canadians, Finns and other assorted Europeans scattered throughout the league. I would welcome more elite talent coming into the NCAA as it would raise the skill level and make our elite American players better. Nick Kerdiles isn't losing his spot at Wisconsin even if the NCAA was the only developmental league in all of hockey. The forth liners can drop down to D-3 (there is no D-2 for those asking) and play there.

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01-06-2013, 04:34 PM
  #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
I think you are reading far too much into the literal name of the league. Does the Kontinental Hockey League only allow those from the European continent to play in the league? Is the National Hockey League only compromised of only one nation? Is the AHL made up only of Americans? USHL? SEL?

The CHL being a Canadian only league would be selling the league short. It is the premier U-20 league in the world, Canadians should be prideful that others want to go there to play hockey, not closing their doors to those international players.


Kenny Powers: Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.
The Kontinental Hockey league has foreign player restrictions.

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01-06-2013, 04:39 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by CarlWinslow View Post
The Cherry phenomenon is not any different than in the USA where you have your own aging blowhards that still have bog time followings.
Aha....a whataboutery argument. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, these blowhards- whomever they may be- didn't become National Icons. There's a BIG difference.

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01-06-2013, 04:42 PM
  #546
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I'd have to disagree a little with Don Cherry. If players outside of Canada want to come to the CHL and play here they should be allowed. Just like Canadian players can go play in the USA or over seas if they can't get a spot on a CHL team. It's beneficial to the CHL as well if they get a great player from outside Canada people will still buy tickets to see them play as long as they are good. I am sure Nail Yakupov sold a lot of tickets for the CHL. The flip side is that Canadian training/coaching is the best in the world and alot of foreigners will become better players and maybe steal some championships in national games like we have seen in the WJC the last few years. Just like immigration in Canada is very important. Anyone that is peaceful and loving, that wants to come to Canada and share what they have to offer it should be allowed and it only makes the country better and more special. Isolation is not the Canadian way.

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01-06-2013, 04:46 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Which means a maximum of 180 or so of the worst CHL players drop down to Junior A.
Which in turn makes them top players in Jr A and destines them for NCAA.

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01-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #548
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Which in turn makes them top players in Jr A and destines them for NCAA.
...and so what? Were they going to become superstars playing in the CHL? They aren't good enough, it's better to get more ice time and focus on their game at that level.

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01-06-2013, 04:54 PM
  #549
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It would be easy to solve this problem.If a player does not participate in their national program they are inelligable for international participation.

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01-06-2013, 05:01 PM
  #550
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...and so what? Were they going to become superstars playing in the CHL? They aren't good enough, it's better to get more ice time and focus on their game at that level.
True,but after Jr A they move to NCAA taking an American's scholarship and still possibly the NHL.As another poster stated the NHL is 30%(which I find hard to believe) from the NCAA.So maybe these players might be better off in the long run.

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