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Paul Martin Trade or Buyout? (if there's a season)

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Old
01-04-2013, 03:05 PM
  #151
mpp9
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Anyone know the details of the two supposed compliance buyouts?

Could we buy Martin out and then trade him to a team that would want his services but not at his present caphit? Or does he automatically become a FA?

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01-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #152
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
He's gotta be the worst defender in the league from a cap-hit to production basis.
Did someone mention my name? Do I have to remind everyone that my cap hit is 6.68mil again?


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01-04-2013, 03:24 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Anyone know the details of the two supposed compliance buyouts?

Could we buy Martin out and then trade him to a team that would want his services but not at his present caphit? Or does he automatically become a FA?
nope, once you're bought out, you're a free agent

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01-04-2013, 05:17 PM
  #154
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Did someone mention my name? Do I have to remind everyone that my cap hit is 6.68mil again?

I would say J-Bo's reliability is worth the $1.68 million extra. Mind you, I'd probably buy him out too if the cap was at $60 million.

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01-04-2013, 05:27 PM
  #155
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I'd take Bouwmeester at 6.68 for the next 2 years over Martin at 5 for the next 3 every day of the week.

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01-04-2013, 07:26 PM
  #156
wgknestrick
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
I'd take Bouwmeester at 6.68 for the next 2 years over Martin at 5 for the next 3 every day of the week.
As much as I criticize Shero, I am glad these ideas aren't shared by Pen's management. Jaybo provides similar offense as Martin, but is much worse defensively. Just compare career +-s of each player to get a sense of where they stack up. There are many contracts worse than Martin's.

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01-04-2013, 09:40 PM
  #157
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I'd rather have Martin at his salary

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01-04-2013, 10:02 PM
  #158
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I just don't see us buying out Martin. Shero will explore all trade options in the off season and buy him out as a last resort. In the mean time, he is necessary to our d corps IMO (even though he totally sucked last year). He will still be given this season as a rebound opportunity.
What GM is going to trade for Martin and his contract next summer?

Not only is the cap going to go down, the market will be flooded with players. Not to mention the fact that GMs know that they can wait for a buy-out and try to sign him for less than 5M.

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01-04-2013, 10:56 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
What GM is going to trade for Martin and his contract next summer?

Not only is the cap going to go down, the market will be flooded with players. Not to mention the fact that GMs know that they can wait for a buy-out and try to sign him for less than 5M.

This is part of why I started this thread. Martin will not have any trade value this summer, IMO. However, he may have some value "right now" if we were to move him, because some teams need to get to the floor, and develop their cost-certainty going forward. If they can kill a few birds with one stone -- get to the cap floor, add a serviceable Dman, etc. -- then I think he has value. If it's next summer and everyone is already at the floor, and the cap ceiling is going down, Martin has no value unless he has a great season. This is the dilemma of whether we should trade him now and get something decent in return, or buy him out in the summer. I think it depends on what type of offer we could get for him.

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01-05-2013, 03:00 PM
  #160
Darth Vitale
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Martin is history unless the cap is about $63.5M next year (minimum). Bank on it. It's not about hating on the guy; he's just too damn expensive to keep in the case that it's significantly lower (like $60-61M). Letang is going to get a HEFTY raise and Shero isn't going to leave that to the last minute to deal with it. Malkin will probably be due a modest raise as well because he'll be forced into a deal half as long as Sid's more or less.

Does Martin have trade value? I'd say yes, he still has some especially WRT to teams like EDM who are very thin on the D front, and overflowing with offensive talent. Barring the typical HFB tendancy to cook up multi-player deals in our head I think the most obvious swap would be Martin for Hemsky. Both guys are skilled at what they do, both need a new home, both have the exact same cap hit. The Pens might include Kennedy in the deal to get rid of the salary / make some more breathing room.

You end up with:

Dupuis - Sid - Hemsky
Kunitz - Geno - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Tangradi

Letang / Orpik, Despres / Nisky, Engo / Bortuzzo, Strait

I could live with that for a transitional, shortened, crap-shoot of a season.

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01-05-2013, 03:34 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Martin is history unless the cap is about $63.5M next year (minimum). Bank on it. It's not about hating on the guy; he's just too damn expensive to keep in the case that it's significantly lower (like $60-61M). Letang is going to get a HEFTY raise and Shero isn't going to leave that to the last minute to deal with it. Malkin will probably be due a modest raise as well because he'll be forced into a deal half as long as Sid's more or less.

Does Martin have trade value? I'd say yes, he still has some especially WRT to teams like EDM who are very thin on the D front, and overflowing with offensive talent. Barring the typical HFB tendancy to cook up multi-player deals in our head I think the most obvious swap would be Martin for Hemsky. Both guys are skilled at what they do, both need a new home, both have the exact same cap hit. The Pens might include Kennedy in the deal to get rid of the salary / make some more breathing room.

You end up with:

Dupuis - Sid - Hemsky
Kunitz - Geno - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Tangradi

Letang / Orpik, Despres / Nisky, Engo / Bortuzzo, Strait

I could live with that for a transitional, shortened, crap-shoot of a season.

If Michalek had trade value of worthless prospect, then Martin has trade value of semi-worthless prospect.

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01-05-2013, 03:38 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
If Michalek had trade value of worthless prospect, then Martin has trade value of semi-worthless prospect.
Most GMs would disagree with you I suspect. Michalek's value was not of a worthless prospect. He was a salary dump, period. Shero was not attempting to get equal value for him. All he wanted was to get him off the books with some type of future asset coming back. Probably some "future considerations" due on Phoenix's part.

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01-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #163
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I don't see any team taking on Martin. Even if you do find a team willing to deal for him, you have to get him to waive his NTC.

The prospect of finally getting him off this team is one of the best things to come out of this lockout. I want him off the team so much if I were GM I'd use both amnesty buyouts on him.

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01-06-2013, 01:35 PM
  #164
Darth Vitale
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The Cap next year will be $64.3M, same as last year... so he won't be bought out most likely. Surprised the players were given that much.

Trade is still a possibility IMO.

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01-06-2013, 01:46 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by The Tang View Post
The prospect of finally getting him off this team is one of the best things to come out of this lockout. I want him off the team so much if I were GM I'd use both amnesty buyouts on him.
Amen.

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01-06-2013, 05:12 PM
  #166
Zirakzigil
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
I'd take Bouwmeester at 6.68 for the next 2 years over Martin at 5 for the next 3 every day of the week.
Very true. Bouwmeester was misused in every since of the word with Sutter. New coach and with a more offensive style will do wonders to his game. Calgary will not buy him out, he is by far the best defenseman they have.

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01-06-2013, 05:21 PM
  #167
Darth Vitale
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Bouwmeester = overgrown Paul Martin. He's not a bad player but he's overrated and way overpaid. We'd basically be magnifying our cap problem by bringing him in.

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01-06-2013, 05:23 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Bouwmeester = overgrown Paul Martin. He's not a bad player but he's overrated and way overpaid. We'd basically be magnifying our cap problem by bringing him in.
I wonder how many of his teams made the playoffs with him the #1 defender? Anyone know that answer? He is Jack Johnson terrible / overrated.

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01-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #169
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I'm happy to give PM another season. I feel like there's a decent chance that last year was a fluke and if it wasn't, then buy him out. That'll give us the bridge we need before bringing in another one of our young D.

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01-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
I wonder how many of his teams made the playoffs with him the #1 defender? Anyone know that answer? He is Jack Johnson terrible / overrated.
I just tried to look up JayBo's playoff stats. I must be stupid because I can't find them

seriously, I want no part of JayBo.

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01-06-2013, 06:09 PM
  #171
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No one is going to trade for a 5 Mill $ D Man who is soft as &%&%

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01-06-2013, 06:15 PM
  #172
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Bouwmeester couldn't be a worse playoff d-man than Martin. No system change is going to make Martin more physical or be willing to take a hit to make a play.

Also the people ragging on Bouwmeester never making the playoffs should realize that Martin has played on 5 straight great teams while being a big-minute player and has been one-and-done in the playoffs each time. He's probably the softest d-man in the league and when he plays big minutes in the playoffs, his complete lack of physicality is painfully exposed.

Bouwmeester could not be worse than him, only as bad and I doubt that very much.

I'm not saying that Bouwmeester is some great d-man, but I'm sure he's better than Martin.

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01-06-2013, 06:34 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No one is going to trade for a 5 Mill $ D Man who is soft as &%&%
Multiple reports said Shero had takers and could have traded him in the summer but chose to deal Michalek instead. I doubt it's that different now since the cap is basically the same.

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01-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #174
Darth Vitale
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Sivek:

How much better... for an extra $1.8M a year, ham-stringing Shero's ability to manage the roster within the cap that much more. Bouwmeester would be marginally better at most and is guaranteed to piss people off because he doesn't play like a big man. At least Martin has somewhat of an excuse for not throwing hits, as he is not a very imposing figure. I'm telling you they're basically the same player in our zone; one is just bigger and more expensive, and a little bit more physical.

Pass. The only underachiever with a big cap hit I'd consider trading Martin for is Hemsky, because it's the same hit and here he would be asked only to create offensive opportunities, which playing next to Crosby he could do IMO. And be far better at it than someone like Kennedy or Tangradi. But even that makes me uneasy. JBo... that would outright piss me off because it wouldn't solve any of our problems. Hemsky at worst, we've added no salary if he doesn't work out and he has one less year on his contract than Martin I think.

Still, I'd much rather ship Martin + our 1st for someone really good instead of looking for "other guys not working out with their teams". JBo, Hemsky, Stewart, Seto... all these guys are bandaids / grasping at straws for a solution.


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01-06-2013, 06:38 PM
  #175
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
Bouwmeester couldn't be a worse playoff d-man than Martin. No system change is going to make Martin more physical or be willing to take a hit to make a play.

Also the people ragging on Bouwmeester never making the playoffs should realize that Martin has played on 5 straight great teams while being a big-minute player and has been one-and-done in the playoffs each time. He's probably the softest d-man in the league and when he plays big minutes in the playoffs, his complete lack of physicality is painfully exposed.

Bouwmeester could not be worse than him, only as bad and I doubt that very much.

I'm not saying that Bouwmeester is some great d-man, but I'm sure he's better than Martin.
but certainly not someone we should have any interest in acquiring.

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