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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 6)

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01-06-2013, 02:30 PM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Assuming Khokhlachev comes back - could the NHL settling make Rychel think twice about trading him away. If the Galchenyuk's, Hamilton's, Stromes, Schaiffle's all head to the show, sure it becomes a sellers market, but OTOH all those teams are losing their best player and we'd be getting ours back - does WR think about keeping Koko? I mean bidding on the Mem Cup next year, you wouldn't think so, but given how he wanted the kings ransom for Kassian and Ellis and became a buyer when nobody would pay his price - will he do the same now?
At least with Koko he hasn't made the mistake of coming out and telling the public (Spits fans) what he expects to get out of the trade. If he says he expects X and a team offers him Y, he can't very well accept Y because it will piss off the fans because they were promised X. If he keeps his yap shut and a team offers him Y, he can take it and call it X.

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01-06-2013, 02:37 PM
  #827
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CFaub I agree with you to an extent but why couldn't they put forth a real good bid for 2017? Spits only lack their 1st rounder in 13, they have a 1st rounder in 14 and 15 and 4 2nd rounders for 2014. If you start drafting better and getting good players there's no excuse why you can't have a good team and bid on 2017? This isn't including a plan that includes on dealing guys like Vail, Rychel and Sieloff to reap the rewards with future draft picks and prospects. Yes they are bidding for the Memorial Cup next year it's all about getting another notch on ownerships belt at the expense of some rough years.

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01-06-2013, 02:42 PM
  #828
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At least with Koko he hasn't made the mistake of coming out and telling the public (Spits fans) what he expects to get out of the trade. If he says he expects X and a team offers him Y, he can't very well accept Y because it will piss off the fans because they were promised X. If he keeps his yap shut and a team offers him Y, he can take it and call it X.
Well stated. You are exactly correct.

IMO, they problems are far deeper than adding one great player like Koko. Gotta trade him if he comes back. As stated by many other posters, sneaking into 7th or 8th does nothing for the future of the team. Getting demolished in two post season home games may help recuperate some of the $250,000 fine but stifles progress in the long run. SELL! SELL! SELL!

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01-06-2013, 02:43 PM
  #829
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Assuming Khokhlachev comes back - could the NHL settling make Rychel think twice about trading him away. If the Galchenyuk's, Hamilton's, Stromes, Schaiffle's all head to the show, sure it becomes a sellers market, but OTOH all those teams are losing their best player and we'd be getting ours back - does WR think about keeping Koko? I mean bidding on the Mem Cup next year, you wouldn't think so, but given how he wanted the kings ransom for Kassian and Ellis and became a buyer when nobody would pay his price - will he do the same now?
Windsor is already 8 points out of a 7th seed which is the best position unless somebody thinks they could beat London. The playoff ship is slowly sailing away. Last year the organization celebrated an 8th seed saying it was great with such a young team. You can't say the same thing if they get an 8th seed this year. Of course I am sure there some fans out there that would consider being an 8th seed again a fine accomplishment. Sell, sell, sell....

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01-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #830
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what are the chances of posa and emerson clark getting sent away?
IMHO not likely but not impossible. It depends on the return(s) WR gets when he makes his deals. If he gets mostly draft picks in return for the players he trades it is possible.
The Spits have 6 cards still available to them. If he were to trade Koko he'd do so before he played a game for the Spits he'd still have his 6 cards. If he does a big trade(s) in which he sends 2 or 3 players out he might be forced to accept an O/A as part of the package he gets in return. He has 1 O/A slot open and 1 import slot open if Koko gets sent elsewhere.
If he were to deal Posa, he'd probably only do it for a 3rd or if Posa was dealt because a team wanted him included in a trade or no deal.Since Bilcke is out for an extended time he'd keep Emerson and probably Bowen. Only way I see Clark moving is if he gets a good player back in a trade who is also a tough player. Only way he fills O/A slot(s) is if he has the free card(s) AND the cost is minimal. He still wants to make the playoffs as well as rebuild.....

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01-06-2013, 03:44 PM
  #831
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what are the chances of posa and emerson clark getting sent away?
Unlikely for both,with the injury to Bilcke for the balance of the reg season ssave the last week Clark is probably safe,as for Posa maybe but I doubt it I think Posa finishes his career as a Spit
With Maletta being dealt,and Billcke out long term,as well as the uncertainty of Bowen
with concussion symptons Spits including Graehame Brown only have 10 forwards and 8 d-men they will look to add bodies
Myself I would spend all 6 cards I have left to get some players in here
Past time to change the makeup of this team
For too long this season short bodies upfront carried only 12 since Bezuch was released
not enough players signed organization wise,its like they went on the cheap,no reason to do so.
Only having 25 signed is not enough,u can add Kuchmey and Graham to the list to make the 25,take off Maletta,down to 24,and that with having a 3rd goalie,leaves little to no wiggle room
My feeling is if Windsor to move 2,3 or 4 bring in 6,sign a couple who are playing B as well to give some organizational depth,said players can get some games in before their B team finishes

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01-06-2013, 04:13 PM
  #832
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CFaub I agree with you to an extent but why couldn't they put forth a real good bid for 2017? Spits only lack their 1st rounder in 13, they have a 1st rounder in 14 and 15 and 4 2nd rounders for 2014. If you start drafting better and getting good players there's no excuse why you can't have a good team and bid on 2017? This isn't including a plan that includes on dealing guys like Vail, Rychel and Sieloff to reap the rewards with future draft picks and prospects. Yes they are bidding for the Memorial Cup next year it's all about getting another notch on ownerships belt at the expense of some rough years.
Had a lengthy response to this but of course problems with site losing my response.

In order for them to bid in 2017 they would have to sell everything this season, invest heavily into 97 born players with limited assets to build a core around while trying to stockpile picks for the 2017 and 2018 drafts... all while under sanctions for the 2013 draft when the 97 born players are eligible.

It could be done but Rychel would have to hit on every draft pick and every deal he makes and recent history shows there is work to be done in those departments.

The other issue is he would be looking to move his 96s when their value is at their peak in order to obtain those draft picks 4 or 5 years out. Windsor would have a revolving door of players drafted from 2012 and prior which would not present the most appealing destination for high end kids.

Not the easiest thing to do when every other team knows you have sanctions to deal with at a time when you can least afford to have those sanctions, 2016 first round pick who could be part of a deal for the final missing pieces.

Too many things would have to go right with no room for error for a 2017 bid to work out.

2020 would give them time to deal this year and recover a ton of assets but without having to look to start dealing them right away. They can rebuild a competitive team without the immediate pressure of a bidding process hanging over their heads, making deals that make sense for the circumstances quietly stockpiling picks for the future while minimizing the effects of the sanctions on the team and their ability to be competitive.

Deal from a position that builds the team instead of worrying about building towards one goal and one goal only.

They did that the last couple of years with 2014 in their sights and so far its not working out too well. How well would they do in a bid for 2017 having felt the effects of the sanctions from the 2013 draft where they would need to draft their core from.

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01-06-2013, 04:24 PM
  #833
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Unlikely for both,with the injury to Bilcke for the balance of the reg season ssave the last week Clark is probably safe,as for Posa maybe but I doubt it I think Posa finishes his career as a Spit
With Maletta being dealt,and Billcke out long term,as well as the uncertainty of Bowen
with concussion symptons Spits including Graehame Brown only have 10 forwards and 8 d-men they will look to add bodies
Myself I would spend all 6 cards I have left to get some players in here
Past time to change the makeup of this team
For too long this season short bodies upfront carried only 12 since Bezuch was released
not enough players signed organization wise,its like they went on the cheap,no reason to do so.
Only having 25 signed is not enough,u can add Kuchmey and Graham to the list to make the 25,take off Maletta,down to 24,and that with having a 3rd goalie,leaves little to no wiggle room
My feeling is if Windsor to move 2,3 or 4 bring in 6,sign a couple who are playing B as well to give some organizational depth,said players can get some games in before their B team finishes
Oshawa would be the ideal dance partner for the Spits...DJ has a ton of young forwards playing spot duty and could use a change of scenery...it gives the Spits a 20 game audition to see if they can stick for next year...

DJ and Warren know and trust each other...

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01-06-2013, 04:47 PM
  #834
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CFaub I see what you're saying of course it seems like even if they don't get the Memorial Cup they still want to contend next year which should be interesting to watch.

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01-06-2013, 04:53 PM
  #835
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Unlikely for both,with the injury to Bilcke for the balance of the reg season ssave the last week Clark is probably safe,as for Posa maybe but I doubt it I think Posa finishes his career as a Spit
With Maletta being dealt,and Billcke out long term,as well as the uncertainty of Bowen
with concussion symptons Spits including Graehame Brown only have 10 forwards and 8 d-men they will look to add bodies
Myself I would spend all 6 cards I have left to get some players in here
Past time to change the makeup of this team
For too long this season short bodies upfront carried only 12 since Bezuch was released
not enough players signed organization wise,its like they went on the cheap,no reason to do so.
Only having 25 signed is not enough,u can add Kuchmey and Graham to the list to make the 25,take off Maletta,down to 24,and that with having a 3rd goalie,leaves little to no wiggle room
My feeling is if Windsor to move 2,3 or 4 bring in 6,sign a couple who are playing B as well to give some organizational depth,said players can get some games in before their B team finishes
I don't know why they don't have many spare bodies. Even if you look at the 2012 draft they don't have many bodies signed yet and Billings busted. 2011 Butcher, Allen, Friedman all remain unsigned. Graham signed but hasn't been used. In 2010 you have some guys no longer in the organization eg. Cortellessa, Feasey. Barber isn't signed and guys like Calderone and Loiselle aren't signed. Maybe too many american guys drafted and you can't do much with them. Why hasn't Watson been signed? He's been productive in Jr B and I have no doubt he could provide more than Clark, Studnicka and before injury Bilcke, if Bowen played up front Watson could do more than him as well.

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01-06-2013, 05:24 PM
  #836
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I don't know why they don't have many spare bodies. Even if you look at the 2012 draft they don't have many bodies signed yet and Billings busted. 2011 Butcher, Allen, Friedman all remain unsigned. Graham signed but hasn't been used. In 2010 you have some guys no longer in the organization eg. Cortellessa, Feasey. Barber isn't signed and guys like Calderone and Loiselle aren't signed. Maybe too many american guys drafted and you can't do much with them. Why hasn't Watson been signed? He's been productive in Jr B and I have no doubt he could provide more than Clark, Studnicka and before injury Bilcke, if Bowen played up front Watson could do more than him as well.
Agree on Ryan Watson he should have been signed has been impressive the last 3 years at camp,the last 2 years including this one in jr b,a smaller forward who can score and will hit
I would have signed him before Graham
I know that Brendan McCann is still an affiliated player,Spits have signed 4 players from the 2012 draft,as u mentioned Billings busted out,Ryker Killins an under sized d-man has had a nice year in jr b,while Leslie and Morrison are at US prep hockey schools
If I am Windsor I would take at a look at forwards Korey Morgan in Lasalle and Derek Palazzolo in Chatam both 94 born guys who have put up impressive numbers 20 goals each for their respective teams
In the future its important for the Spits to have more players at their disposal

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01-06-2013, 05:29 PM
  #837
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Spits now 5 pts behind Saginaw, as the Spirit beat Guelph 3-2 this afternoon on a goal by Eric Locke with 15 seconds to play,after the Spirit tied the game with six and half minutes to go on a pp
The Spits have 2 games in hand on the Spirit and also play them twice more

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01-06-2013, 05:56 PM
  #838
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Forgive the obvious the Spits recent 7 game slide in a real hole,as they trail 7th SSm by 9 pts and Saginaw 5 pts for the final play off spot
To Windsor"s chagrin,Sag,SSM,Erie and Plymouth have all gotten hot whiel the Spits have gone stone cold at the worst possible time
While the Spits have 2 games in hand on Sag and SSM,and 1 game in hand on Erie they dont mean a thing unless they win them
Wht has not been talked about is that Saginaw or Erie for that matter with the pts they have relative to those in the East can still pick 4th and make the playoffs because of the ridiculous penaltiies imposed on Windsor including the loss of a 1st rd pick,only 19 teams pick in the 1st rd because of the sanctions
I find it wrong that teams cant trade their 1st rd picks but stripping them of one is ok as it relates to the ability to compete,in effect punishing a fan base,2nd rders yes 1st rders no
Just my view dont care what anybody else says

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01-06-2013, 06:59 PM
  #839
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Why can't the monetary fine be enough punishment for these sanctions? What purpose does stripping draft picks serve?

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01-06-2013, 07:04 PM
  #840
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Why can't the monetary fine be enough punishment for these sanctions? What purpose does stripping draft picks serve?
1000 per cent agree

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01-06-2013, 07:07 PM
  #841
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Why can't the monetary fine be enough punishment for these sanctions? What purpose does stripping draft picks serve?
Not sure it's a good question. The better one would be, why do the board of governors think it's a good idea? I am still surprised they would agree to that and they also think being able to give a team a window to trade a 1st round pick and recoup picks plus an additional 1st rounder in the following draft is a good idea. It's like the governors have backwards thinking, it only hurts the league in the long run though. If they want damage the game that's their choice.

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01-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #842
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Not sure it's a good question. The better one would be, why do the board of governors think it's a good idea? I am still surprised they would agree to that and they also think being able to give a team a window to trade a 1st round pick and recoup picks plus an additional 1st rounder in the following draft is a good idea. It's like the governors have backwards thinking, it only hurts the league in the long run though. If they want damage the game that's their choice.
Rayzor

Excellent points made,nice to see some think outside the box like u and Libbs and me of course lol

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01-06-2013, 07:17 PM
  #843
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Rayzor

Excellent points made,nice to see some think outside the box like u and Libbs and me of course lol
I always think outside the box... though most times it smacks me in the head.

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01-06-2013, 07:19 PM
  #844
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Why can't the monetary fine be enough punishment for these sanctions? What purpose does stripping draft picks serve?
I'd guess because the monetary fine would have to be uniform, and fining a have-not team the same as a have would put that team out of business. So the fine has to be low enough that a have-not team could could still pay it.

Truth be told I hate the defected player compensation pick system, and the Spits created two extra first rounder when the traded for Ebert and Bateman, so we're cosmically giving them back now. Not to mention we used the NCAA game to get first round talent in the later rounds which sucks for 16 of the other teams.

To tell you the truth I think the penalty was for show. Especially so if we still get the Mem Cup because it will make the fine mean nothing. And the first rounder this year wouldn't be expected to be an impact player for a Mem Cup team anyways, not to mention we expected to be a 3-4 seed type team and thus picking in the 10-15 range, not down in the 3-4-5 range. AND the penalty didn't take away gold education packages - so we can get a top talent in the second or third round and offer a gold package. So while the penalties hurt, I think it's more a reputational scar than anything else.

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01-06-2013, 09:14 PM
  #845
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Who came up with the original suspension that involved the picks? Branch or the owners?

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01-07-2013, 07:33 AM
  #846
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im just looking at guelphs line up ...

i would like to acouple of storm players in a spits jersey

legend u hear anything rumours about guelph?

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01-07-2013, 07:37 AM
  #847
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im just looking at guelphs line up ...

i would like to acouple of storm players in a spits jersey

legend u hear anything rumours about guelph?
Guelphs GM Kelly already made it public that he will not trade his youngsters and a good chance he doesn't do anything....

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01-07-2013, 07:41 AM
  #848
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i would like to see Andrey Pedan

looks like a good team guy, he would be a good o/a for our back end and it might cost us ebert or batemand , maybe even studnicka and bateman for pedan and picks

but i would like to see us add a good solid d-man that can play in our zone

and then we could trade one of our import picks in the summer

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01-07-2013, 08:22 AM
  #849
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Monday should prove to be a very long day at the OHL Offices

If all goes according to Hoyle, today could prove to be a very long and interesting day for the OHL GM's. Word has it that trade talk really started to heat up Saturday and was even more intense on Sunday.
The OHL competition committee is supposed to meet today to discuss moving the trade deadline (Thursday 12PM) back, which would allow the GMs to get a better grip on their world now that the NHL lockout has ended. The O/A trade deadline is Wednesday which means that the GM's would have very little time left to make deals involving O/A players.
Normally a lot of O/A players get tossed off the bus at this time of year in the name of progress (younger players/draft picks). The Spits are using only 2 of their 3 O/A slots.(Posa & Emerson Clark)If the Price is Right you will see some movement by the Spits but unless someone gives WR a deal he can't refuse Posa should remain a Spit.
If the competition committee holds firm to the Thursday deadline (word has it they are leaning to leaving the deadline as it exists) they will be putting the GM's feet to the fire. The reason for not moving the deadline is said to be consideration for the players educational situations (looming exam schedules).
Compounding the situation this year for the OHL is the NHL settlement a good portion of which will affect the OHL. Will the 10 game limit for OHL players remain the same or will it be reduced to 5 games.(Amateur tryout)? Will, as has be hinted, some of the KHL players get incentives to remain in the KHL for the balance of the season?(opening up more NHL jobs)
Will some teams jump from being a competitive team ( a buyer) to becoming a seller)? How will the OHL teams handle the potential loss of players to NHL training camps or NHL seasons? Will we see any trades made that don't have conditions attached to them? ( eg. (2) 2nd round picks that turn into (2) 14th round picks if the player makes an NHL team instead of being sent back).
How will the Spitfire Import Player situation play out? Will Pavelka stay or be shipped off to a contender for a King's ransom? Will the prodigal son Alexander Khokhachev return from Mother Russia to save the day or will we have seen the last of him in a Spits uni? Will he end up playing in Sarnia? Oshawa? Belleville? or heaven help us London?
All these answers and more coming your way thanks to the world of twitter....

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01-07-2013, 08:34 AM
  #850
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London has two imports that aren't going anywhere. The other three teams could be fits though, and if the Spits are going to bid for next years Memorial Cup than they NEED to trade Koko. I would like to hear definitively that Koko is coming back as well. It's been nothing but speculation at this point. If he is coming back and is being traded, the time to trade him would be now while the trade deadline and availability of the potential NHL kids is up in the air. Koko would be the sure thing acquisition rather than hoping/gambling on a Strome not making the show this year.

I don't know How Pavelka would be worth a "King's Ransom" either, I mean he'd be solid enough to give a wannabe contender real depth at goalie, but I don't think he automatically supplants any current No.1's on contenders.

Spits should get a free or cheap OA this week, as non-contenders ship their better ones to contenders, and then contenders have to cut/trade one of their current ones. Some players traded to a bad team from their current contender will not report to certain situations.

Nobody will offer a deal he can't refuse for Posa.

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