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Luongo Talk: The Final Countdown...?

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01-06-2013, 11:25 PM
  #76
Bleach Clean
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Shane Doan.

I just don't understand the 4.2mil threshold. If Gillis could bring in a Corey Perry and it costs Booth his job, he'll do it IMO.


I don't disagree, but _paying_ for these assets has always been the problem.



So Shane down was available, they didn't get him. If they had got him, likely they end up trading Booth. But because they didn't get him, and have had trouble getting these types of players (everyone does), Booth's acquisition cost + age + average 2nd liner contract made him an attractive get for them. And here we are.



People can say buy out Booth, trade him, get better players etc... But if it were easy, it would have been done already. As it stands, getting _any_ top6 PWF for his medium salary, for what they gave up, made a lot of sense.

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01-06-2013, 11:25 PM
  #77
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Thank Bleach Clean.

Is there any room to upgrade our team through UFA? So out of the loop.

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01-06-2013, 11:26 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Shane Doan.

I just don't understand the 4.2mil threshold. If Gillis could bring in a Corey Perry and it costs Booth his job, he'll do it IMO.
There is no way we could have gotten Doan.
We were rumored to have offered Doan almost as much as Phoenix gave him (which is too much IMO). Doan wanted to stay in Phoenix instead of playing in the top 6 of a cup contender.

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01-06-2013, 11:27 PM
  #79
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Thank Bleach Clean.

Is there any room to upgrade our team through UFA? So out of the loop.

No. Next year is going to be about shedding salary, not bringing it in. It's going to be a snug fit under that 64.3m cap.

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01-06-2013, 11:28 PM
  #80
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Garrison was not to upgrade Ballard, but replace Salo, because nobody trusted Ballard with the job. I don't see how that's relevant.

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01-06-2013, 11:29 PM
  #81
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There is no way we could have gotten Doan.
We were rumored to have offered Doan almost as much as Phoenix gave him (which is too much IMO). Doan wanted to stay in Phoenix instead of playing in the top 6 of a cup contender.

Every so often these PWFs make it to FA, or get traded, but it's not easy to assume you will get said player. Or could have gotten said player. Acquisition cost and total salary commitments are always factors.

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01-06-2013, 11:30 PM
  #82
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Can't imagine we trade for Bozak and try to replace Schroeder with him. He has horrible advanced stats and cushy ice-time in Toronto. He also had only 4 goals in 32 AHL games when he was a year older than Schroeder. To trade for him when you could be developing a better player is just insanity.
It's beyond insanity. Add to the fact he's a UFA in 6 months - there might be another riot in Van if he's the main piece coming back.

We've pretty much heard his name from all reporter sources, it makes me very nervous. I'm willing to bet that if he comes to Van, in 6 months we'll be adding him to the list of names like Gragnani, Oreskovich, Pahlsson etc etc. I just can't imagine a GM like Gillis would trade his #1 goaltender for a pick, a pending UFA and something else. Clearly, that would Burke robbery.

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01-06-2013, 11:32 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Garrison was not to upgrade Ballard, but replace Salo, because nobody trusted Ballard with the job. I don't see how that's relevant.

It's not. But the point was received. If a better player comes along, sure you shed Booth's salary. But getting those players has always been a challenge. So it really is Booth vs. Excellent PWF Top6er, and Booth loses every time.

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01-06-2013, 11:33 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
It's beyond insanity. Add to the fact he's a UFA in 6 months - there might be another riot in Van if he's the main piece coming back.

We've pretty much heard his name from all reporter sources, it makes me very nervous. I'm willing to bet that if he comes to Van, in 6 months we'll be adding him to the list of names like Gragnani, Oreskovich, Pahlsson etc etc. I just can't imagine a GM like Gillis would trade his #1 goaltender for a pick, a pending UFA and something else. Clearly, that would Burke robbery.


Would Bozak + Kadri + 1st be a robbery for Burke?

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01-06-2013, 11:34 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
There is no way we could have gotten Doan.
I disagree. Doan had a tough decision to make and chose Phoenix. Phoenix was the obvious favourite all along but it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for him to sign in Vancouver.

I also don't see why this top 6 forward has to be a PF. Alex Tanguay for example would have been a much better fit and a guy we could have very realisitically signed had we tried.

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01-06-2013, 11:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SunshineRays View Post
It's beyond insanity. Add to the fact he's a UFA in 6 months - there might be another riot in Van if he's the main piece coming back.

We've pretty much heard his name from all reporter sources, it makes me very nervous. I'm willing to bet that if he comes to Van, in 6 months we'll be adding him to the list of names like Gragnani, Oreskovich, Pahlsson etc etc. I just can't imagine a GM like Gillis would trade his #1 goaltender for a pick, a pending UFA and something else. Clearly, that would Burke robbery.
I can see Bozak potentially being part of a deal, but merely as a warm body. With Kesler still injured and no concrete timetable for his return, this team could use another capable top 9 center, enter Bozak.

That said, no way he's the center piece or even an integral part of any Luongo trade. He's a warm body, that can fill a short term need on a short term contract, nothing more. Names such as Kadri, Kulemin, Frattin, Finn, 1st round pick(not a name I know), will be the integral pieces of any deal.

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01-06-2013, 11:38 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Garrison was not to upgrade Ballard, but replace Salo, because nobody trusted Ballard with the job. I don't see how that's relevant.
Garrison was brought in to upgrade the defense, not Salo or Ballard specifically. We still would have signed him IMO even if Salo returned.

It's relevant because it shows we will pursue upgrades if they're out there, regardless of how the players salaries compare to others in similar roles. Similarily, if there is a forward upgrade out there that can be signed for $4.6mil, you do it. As we saw with the pursuit of Shane Doan.

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01-06-2013, 11:38 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I disagree. Doan had a tough decision to make and chose Phoenix. Phoenix was the obvious favourite all along but it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for him to sign in Vancouver.

I also don't see why this top 6 forward has to be a PF. Alex Tanguay for example would have been a much better fit and a guy we could have very realisitically signed had we tried.


Having something be in the realm of possibility and completed are two totally different things. It's what makes a team like VAN go after a player like Booth. Top6ers are seldom available, and if they are, they have options. Or, in the case of Tanguay, they don't meet the criteria of management.


For whatever reason, the "other" solution wasn't brought in, but we do have Booth...



DTS revelation: If you can bring in an upgrade, you do it.

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01-06-2013, 11:39 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
There is no way we could have gotten Doan.
We were rumored to have offered Doan almost as much as Phoenix gave him (which is too much IMO). Doan wanted to stay in Phoenix instead of playing in the top 6 of a cup contender.
Doan was ready to sign in Vancouver, but made a last minute decision to go back to Phoenix. It was closer than you make it out to be.

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01-06-2013, 11:40 PM
  #90
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I have a lot of interest in Tyler Biggs. Obviously not as the main piece coming back but if Biggs could somehow make his way into any deal for Luongo, it would make me that much happier.

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01-06-2013, 11:40 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I disagree. Doan had a tough decision to make and chose Phoenix. Phoenix was the obvious favourite all along but it wasn't out of the realm of possibility for him to sign in Vancouver.
What I'm saying is that the Canucks couldn't have offered any more money/years than what they offered, and Doan signed elsewhere, so there really wasn't any chance of us getting him (in the end).

If the Canucks had a ton of cap space to fill out one last roster spot, but they didn't offer all their remaining cap space to Doan, then there would have been a chance to get him (but they didn't pounce at the chance since they didn't offer all they could have).

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01-06-2013, 11:40 PM
  #92
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Would Bozak + Kadri + 1st be a robbery for Burke?
Yes Sir.

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01-06-2013, 11:41 PM
  #93
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No. Next year is going to be about shedding salary, not bringing it in. It's going to be a snug fit under that 64.3m cap.
Damn. Not what I wanted to hear. Thanks.

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01-06-2013, 11:41 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
What I'm saying is that the Canucks couldn't have offered any more money/years than what they offered, and Doan signed elsewhere, so there really wasn't any chance of us getting him (in the end).

If the Canucks had a ton of cap space to fill out one last roster spot, but they didn't offer all their remaining cap space to Doan, then there would have been a chance to get him (but they didn't pounce at the chance since they didn't offer all they could have).
The Canucks could have made room to bring him in...hell, they tried to bring Weber in too.

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01-06-2013, 11:44 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
I have a lot of interest in Tyler Biggs. Obviously not as the main piece coming back but if Biggs could somehow make his way into any deal for Luongo, it would make me that much happier.

Biggs came up through Burke's co-owned USA development program. He isn't going anywhere IMO.


Kadri ain't bad.

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01-06-2013, 11:45 PM
  #96
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The Canucks could have made room to bring him in...hell, they tried to bring Weber in too.
Sure, they could offer him a Sundin-like deal, but it would hurt the rest of the team by forcing the Canucks to spend less on other positions.
What they were rumored to have offered (~$5 mil per for 3/4 years) would have hurt them in the long run, and offering even more than that wouldn't be smart.

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01-06-2013, 11:45 PM
  #97
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Yes Sir.

Prepare to be robbed.

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01-06-2013, 11:47 PM
  #98
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Biggs came up through Burke's co-owned USA development program. He isn't going anywhere IMO.


Kadri ain't bad.
That may and well be true. Kadri would obviously be a good addition, along with a player like Matt Finn. Maybe something like Kulemin+Kadri+Finn for Luongo+Pick?

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01-06-2013, 11:49 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Sure, they could offer him a Sundin-like deal, but it would hurt the rest of the team by forcing the Canucks to spend less on other positions.
What they were rumored to have offered (~$5 mil per for 3/4 years) would have hurt them in the long run, and offering even more than that wouldn't be smart.


The real point is that they couldn't land him. And going after Booth only makes sense when you can replace him with something better. Until that happens, I'm not sure why anything has to be done.

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01-06-2013, 11:49 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Having something be in the realm of possibility and completed are two totally different things.
You asked for an example where the Canucks had the 'opportunity' of bringing in a PF top 6'er. Not an example of a top 6 PF that they did bring in...

Though Mikael Samuelsson also fits your criteria - though at a 60% lower cap hit. Heck, Higgins was acquired for a song, didn't make much money and still outplayed David Booth.

I think you get the idea. Finding half point per game 2nd liners isn't exactly impossible.

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