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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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01-06-2013, 10:53 PM
  #501
Whileee
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This might be a surprise (or shock) to some, but personally I hope that the GWI doesn't challenge this deal legally. In the past, I have felt strongly that the COG, its staff and council members have misrepresented the Coyotes deals, and that the public therefore had been misled. However, I think that now the citizens have had ample opportunity to understand the deal and its implications and have had a number of opportunities to stop it. As I have always maintained, if the citizens favor using their taxes to support a professional sports team, then that should be their prerogative.

If the Jamison deal goes through, let's hope that the Coyotes are transformed into a financially stable franchise so this saga can come to a merciful end.

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01-06-2013, 10:57 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Classic Jamison!
Does anyone really know what that means? After all the guy's been a ghost to everyone for the past 18 months.

Quote:
Why on earth would he need to meet with those two clowns?
Supposedly this deal was done, vetted by GB and the BOG, approved by them etc. etc. Gee even gramps claims he has the money and is ready to go!
Uh.... to finalize the sale agreement, now that this little task of getting a CBA seems all but done???

Getting Bettman's and Daly's jersey size??

Showing Bettman and Daly his new uniform proposals for the following season??

Asking if it's okay to change the name to Arizona Coyotes this season or should he wait until next year??

Mind you I'm just speculating but I don't recall Bettman or Jamison ever saying a deal "is done".

Quote:
LOL, he is meeting with GB to get the OK to pull the plug, his charade is over with the new CBA in place. The lock out was always his excuse, once the imbeciles at the Council agreed to a new lease his only protection left was the league issue. Thats gone , now its time for GJ to head for the hills, his work is done.
More soapboxing...... oy!!!!!

Might save this one too.

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01-06-2013, 11:14 PM
  #503
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Well, you certainly can't blame Jamison for being a "hype" sort of guy. Statements like the following don't inspire as much confidence as one would hope for at this stage:

Quote:
“I am very aware of that deadline,” Jamison said, laughing. “Hopefully we can get it done in the next two to three weeks. Barring something unforeseen, we look to get to the finish line.”
(http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/01/0...13&feedID=3702)

Also, this tidbit from the same story sounds familiar:

Quote:
Jamison said he and the league -- the Coyotes’ current owner -- have already agreed to a general sale price for the club (he did not name that price), but there are myriad other details still to be worked out, including securing all the investors he has assembled.
And this analogy should provide a contender for the next thread title:

Quote:
“I used to run races on the track team -- one mile and two miles. I remember we used to break down the road into segments, saying, 'Let’s just get to that tree,' and that’s what we’re trying to do here.”
"Phoenix LXVIII: 'Let's just get to that tree'".

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01-06-2013, 11:17 PM
  #504
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Ability to trade cap space, no increases in UFA etc age, 8 year contracts...The more details that come out, the more the deal looks like what the PA was proposing all along...

 
Old
01-07-2013, 01:59 AM
  #505
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I have a feeling that the only reason why Jamison is interested in buying the coyotes is to sell it to the highest bidder between Seattle and Quebec.

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01-07-2013, 07:38 AM
  #506
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Seems that some of the posters here might have been right all along...

The sale of the Coyotes was directly related to the CBA getting finalized. Based on Jamison's comments like:

The NHL and NHL Players Association had come to a tentative agreement in New York, ending the 113-day lockout. Finally! “That was my first thought,” said Jamison, who has been attempting to finalize a purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes for months. “My next was: ‘What is it? What did we sign up for?’”

and

Jamison said he and the league —- the Coyotes’ current owner —- have already agreed to a general sale price for the club (he did not name that price), but there are myriad other details still to be worked out, including securing all the investors he has assembled.

It would appear to me that Jamison's investors ( whomever they may be ) didn't want to finalize this purchase until the CBA was finalized, as well as the details of that CBA. If that's the case then it looks like if the season had been cancelled, that would have been it for the Coyotes.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 01-07-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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01-07-2013, 08:18 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Alexdaman View Post
I have a feeling that the only reason why Jamison is interested in buying the coyotes is to sell it to the highest bidder between Seattle and Quebec.
Fine by me. Get it the hell away from the Glendale circus if it comes to that.

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01-07-2013, 08:23 AM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
This might be a surprise (or shock) to some, but personally I hope that the GWI doesn't challenge this deal legally. In the past, I have felt strongly that the COG, its staff and council members have misrepresented the Coyotes deals, and that the public therefore had been misled. However, I think that now the citizens have had ample opportunity to understand the deal and its implications and have had a number of opportunities to stop it. As I have always maintained, if the citizens favor using their taxes to support a professional sports team, then that should be their prerogative.

If the Jamison deal goes through, let's hope that the Coyotes are transformed into a financially stable franchise so this saga can come to a merciful end.
I thought they did that when they didn't vote in Clark?


BTW, anyone wanna chime in on if the new CBA does enough to make this franchise viable in Glendale under that lease?

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01-07-2013, 08:30 AM
  #509
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The timing of this announcement is likely nothing more than a desperate attempt to get the Yotes fans to fill Jobbing toot sweet before the losses start mounting again.

Dangling the carrot of the team purchase is what I'm seeing here.

for the record..... may I be wrong.

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01-07-2013, 08:46 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
This might be a surprise (or shock) to some, but personally I hope that the GWI doesn't challenge this deal legally. In the past, I have felt strongly that the COG, its staff and council members have misrepresented the Coyotes deals, and that the public therefore had been misled. However, I think that now the citizens have had ample opportunity to understand the deal and its implications and have had a number of opportunities to stop it. As I have always maintained, if the citizens favor using their taxes to support a professional sports team, then that should be their prerogative . . .
I understand that perspective, but I think there are bigger issues here. The idea in Arizona's constitution is that the money taxpayers are forced to fork over has to be used for essential purposes, not given to corporations. That's an important ideal. Governments aren't supposed to play favorites, especially with taxpayer's hard-earned money. When governments start going to bat for their favored corporations or individuals, it opens up all sorts of likelihood of corruption, which is what we've seen in a borderline way with the way Glendale has played this. This is why I think it's important GWI or someone challenge this huge give-away in court.

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01-07-2013, 09:07 AM
  #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Seems that some of the posters here might have been right all along...

The sale of the Coyotes was directly related to the CBA getting finalized. Based on Jamison's comments like:

The NHL and NHL Players Association had come to a tentative agreement in New York, ending the 113-day lockout. Finally! “That was my first thought,” said Jamison, who has been attempting to finalize a purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes for months. “My next was: ‘What is it? What did we sign up for?’”

and

Jamison said he and the league —- the Coyotes’ current owner —- have already agreed to a general sale price for the club (he did not name that price), but there are myriad other details still to be worked out, including securing all the investors he has assembled.

It would appear to me that Jamison's investors ( whomever they may be ) didn't want to finalize this purchase until the CBA was finalized, as well as the details of that CBA. If that's the case then it looks like if the season had been cancelled, that would have been it for the Coyotes.
I actually disagree that it was the CBA holding things up, I still think that Jamison is still short on investors and is still looking for some hail mary last second sugar daddy to come in and save the day. If the season had been cancelled I think things would still be the same.

Now that being said, I suspect the reason that Jamison is meeting with B & D is to find out the nuts and bolts of the CBA and what it would mean to owning the Coyotes. In the highly likely event that the current lease agreement expires, he would want to know what would his minimum requirements being in negotiating a new lease agreement.

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01-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
I thought they did that when they didn't vote in Clark?


BTW, anyone wanna chime in on if the new CBA does enough to make this franchise viable in Glendale under that lease?
It's hard to tell. In any case, they voted in at least one other council member who was pro-subsidy. They could have voted against the sales tax, but endorsed it. They could have mounted a campaign to send the Coyotes deal to a referendum, but only a single, dyspneic old man seemed at all interested. I would say that they have been rather passive / apathetic if they really don't like the Coyotes' deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildGopher View Post
I understand that perspective, but I think there are bigger issues here. The idea in Arizona's constitution is that the money taxpayers are forced to fork over has to be used for essential purposes, not given to corporations. That's an important ideal. Governments aren't supposed to play favorites, especially with taxpayer's hard-earned money. When governments start going to bat for their favored corporations or individuals, it opens up all sorts of likelihood of corruption, which is what we've seen in a borderline way with the way Glendale has played this. This is why I think it's important GWI or someone challenge this huge give-away in court.
I was just stating my personal view, not a legal perspective. Politicians play favorites all the time with taxpayer's hard-earned money. If the taxpayers are okay with how their money is spent, that seems a reasonable system. I think that Glendale's taxpayers have had ample opportunity to object to the Jamison lease, and have let it slide. I expect that it does violate the gift clause, but the subsidy to Jamison is all out there for the voters to see. If challenged, I think that the COG might lose in court, but unless there is strong political and public appetite to send it to court it this will be a moot point. I would be more concerned with his refusal to name investors, but I guess Glendale doesn't care who actually owns the team and benefits from the subsidy.

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01-07-2013, 09:25 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
... anyone wanna chime in on if the new CBA does enough to make this franchise viable in Glendale under that lease?
It'll help, buts its' certainly no Silver Bullet. The ceiling drops to $64M & change, the bottom to $44M, the minimum salary rising from app $550K to $725K (over the life of the CBA) while Revenue Sharing will be increased by $200M & tied to overall league-wide growth. Short-term with an abbreviated season cost savings will be substantial. Travel expenses will be lower with a 48 or 50 game Conference play schedule for the Coyotes, pro-rated salaries, and as we know profits realized during the playoff's provided of course fans do flock back.

The franchise doesnt really have any stupid-crazy contracts on the books so the buyout clause wont do much for them, nor will trading cap space. Its the bolded bit that promises the most for teams like Phoenix which when combined with Glendales $300M+ (if they can even cash those checks) will give them a fighting chance. And by "fighting chance" I mean of the kind devised by the likes of the NHL & Jamison. An over-reliance upon the combination of league & municipal welfare without any serious oversite & scrutiny; creating a bubble of artificiality that inevitably bursts as this one most assuredly will. This combined with having very little confidence in Greg Jamison, deeply suspicious of his motives and mechanizations, well, lets just say Im not really all that optimistic at this point.

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01-07-2013, 09:31 AM
  #514
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I have a feeling that the only reason why Jamison is interested in buying the coyotes is to sell it to the highest bidder between Seattle and Quebec.
Would that make the NHL the dumbest people in the room for not doing that themselves and keeping the profit, since the league owns the team and all -or- would it make JIG the dumbest people in the room for buying the team to sell it for relocation after Moyes just proved that relo is a league decision, not an owner decision?

Or maybe feelings don't require thought, they just exist in a void of all logic?

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01-07-2013, 09:32 AM
  #515
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The make up of investors will determine the viability of the Coyotes remaining in Phoenix. Remember the problems of infighting experienced with the Atlanta team before its relocation to Winnipeg. I would expect that the desperately put together patchwork management in Phoenix would also not be so harmonious. ergo: Quebec will be the default destination.

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01-07-2013, 09:46 AM
  #516
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Would that make the NHL the dumbest people in the room for not doing that themselves and keeping the profit, since the league owns the team and all -or- would it make JIG the dumbest people in the room for buying the team to sell it for relocation after Moyes just proved that relo is a league decision, not an owner decision?

Or maybe feelings don't require thought, they just exist in a void of all logic?
i agree. the coyotes are not, and have not been for three years now, a "portable asset" for purchase. ONLY the NHL will relocate this team.

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01-07-2013, 09:52 AM
  #517
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The make up of investors will determine the viability of the Coyotes remaining in Phoenix. Remember the problems of infighting experienced with the Atlanta team before its relocation to Winnipeg. I would expect that the desperately put together patchwork management in Phoenix would also not be so harmonious. ergo: Quebec will be the default destination.
aside from various convoluted statements from GJ and GB, is there any evidence that these investors even exist?

can anyone recall if clarke or skeete have ever stated that they had met, spoken to, or even learned the identity of, these investors?

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01-07-2013, 09:54 AM
  #518
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It's hard to tell. In any case, they voted in at least one other council member who was pro-subsidy. They could have voted against the sales tax, but endorsed it. They could have mounted a campaign to send the Coyotes deal to a referendum, but only a single, dyspneic old man seemed at all interested. I would say that they have been rather passive / apathetic if they really don't like the Coyotes' deal.
Paroxysmal respiratory disease. Thank you for your prognosis Herr Doktore'. Explains everything.

... as for the rest, yes... no, wait, cant go on, bad case of the giggles, cant breathe...

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01-07-2013, 09:58 AM
  #519
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I thought they did that when they didn't vote in Clark?
BTW, anyone wanna chime in on if the new CBA does enough to make this franchise viable in Glendale under that lease?
Joyce Clark's defeat had very little to do with the Coyotes. She never had the votes in the first place and she was undermined by another council member.

The people of Glendale have had long enough to try to defeat any of this but it hasn't happened. I think that speaks louder than anything here. Gather your own thoughts and conclusions. Now GJ should be able to sign this and we can all move on.

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01-07-2013, 10:02 AM
  #520
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i agree. the coyotes are not, and have not been for three years now, a "portable asset" for purchase. ONLY the NHL will relocate this team.
All of the past events sure do support that.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for some to believe that a guy would try to pull together an investment group in an attempt to cash in on the large scale subsidy the imbeciles in Glendale offered. The idea that this is all some elaborate work makes no sense and the conspiracy theories along those lines are among the stupidest things I've ever heard.

Speculating that JIG has failed to secure investors because the market is proven non-viable makes sense (and may turn out to be true). But suggesting the entire JIG effort is a ruse or is a backdoor to relocation is moronic.

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01-07-2013, 10:04 AM
  #521
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aside from various convoluted statements from GJ and GB, is there any evidence that these investors even exist? can anyone recall if clarke or skeete have ever stated that they had met, spoken to, or even learned the identity of, these investors?
yepp. And here they are. Huey, Dewey & Louie...


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01-07-2013, 10:09 AM
  #522
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Speculating that JIG has failed to secure investors because the market is proven non-viable makes sense (and may turn out to be true). But suggesting the entire JIG effort is a ruse or is a backdoor to relocation is moronic.
Pretty much, and all jokes aside, thats one Conspiracy Theory that just doesnt hold water. I believe the effort's have been made & then some. It simply isnt plausible that someone like Greg Jamison, based on his history & track record would "play" the city, the fans & everyone else to such an extent. Doesnt make sense.

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01-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #523
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I actually disagree that it was the CBA holding things up, I still think that Jamison is still short on investors and is still looking for some hail mary last second sugar daddy to come in and save the day. If the season had been cancelled I think things would still be the same.

Now that being said, I suspect the reason that Jamison is meeting with B & D is to find out the nuts and bolts of the CBA and what it would mean to owning the Coyotes. In the highly likely event that the current lease agreement expires, he would want to know what would his minimum requirements being in negotiating a new lease agreement.
Slice and dice the Coyote franchise, as a business opportunity, and a moderately intelligent individual will quickly see that the future financial prospects for this organization are at best, "bad." Even with the COG largesse and revenue sharing the new owners would be expected to pay up to or close to the player salary cap ceiling for prospective customers to keep come to Jobing! Anything less and the patronage will smell a rat! That said, GJ, and his secretive ownership group, will then have to add perhaps as much as 5-10MM more in salary cap expense. Such an act, with limited revenues, portends even deeper losses. Please help me, why on earth would anyone want to buy into an economic scenario that threatens to get worse not better? I find it fascinating that so many folks who want the team to remain want it there on the backs of the taxpayers of Glendale as opposed to a group of investors willing to cover the costs on their own.

GWI will represent a very serious threat to any ownership group, in their hand is the law of the land, laws that the previous Council have been compromising for years in an effort to vindicate their previous errors of judgement. The law will win this battle, at some point in time, and only then will the taxpayers, as dumb as they have been, be relieved of the corrupt decisions foisted upon them by a circumspect Mayor and Council.

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01-07-2013, 10:25 AM
  #524
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Hey Killion, I know this is the Phoenix thread but did not want to open a thread for only this season, but what do you think of this CBA for the NHL?

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01-07-2013, 10:31 AM
  #525
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Seems that some of the posters here might have been right all along...

The sale of the Coyotes was directly related to the CBA getting finalized. Based on Jamison's comments like:

The NHL and NHL Players Association had come to a tentative agreement in New York, ending the 113-day lockout. Finally! “That was my first thought,” said Jamison, who has been attempting to finalize a purchase of the Phoenix Coyotes for months. “My next was: ‘What is it? What did we sign up for?’”

and

Jamison said he and the league —- the Coyotes’ current owner —- have already agreed to a general sale price for the club (he did not name that price), but there are myriad other details still to be worked out, including securing all the investors he has assembled.

It would appear to me that Jamison's investors ( whomever they may be ) didn't want to finalize this purchase until the CBA was finalized, as well as the details of that CBA. If that's the case then it looks like if the season had been cancelled, that would have been it for the Coyotes.
I interpret that to mean his investors whoever they are have a walk out clause if they don't like the new CBA. He can't buy the team until they have a new CBA to read, ponder and do some math. Provided that his investors do exist I predict this is when the Jamison chapter of this saga will end. At least one of them will chicken out and the dominos will fall.

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