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Luongo Talk: The Final Countdown...?

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01-07-2013, 01:23 AM
  #126
SunshineRays
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It sounds like the punishment for backdiving contracts (a.k.a The Burke Clause) is not apart of the new CBA. Anyone hear differently?

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01-07-2013, 01:24 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos View Post
Maybe.

The issue i see is Kassian is a cycle/lateral type guy with a bit of playing making flying down the wing.

Kesler and Booth are much more fly down the wing players. Youd have to have both Kesler and Booth be able to slow their game down and find the open ice.

Kass plays a game a little closer to the style of the Sedins.
I agree, but there simply aren't a lot of players who play Booth or Kesler's style who also have their speed, a better IQ and are good playmakers from the wings. I'm not even sure if you would be able to find someone with their physicality who would be a feasible choice.

Guys like Tanguay and Hemsky would be great as despite their smaller frame and softer style, they are fast skaters who like getting things done in transition plus have superb hockey sense and passing ability.

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01-07-2013, 01:38 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
i think Luongo has established himself enough to this point that teams know what kind of goaltender they would be getting...

Lots of Bozak bashing. The guy is alright, near 50 points last year and his numbers his first 3 seasons aren't bad at all, he is a huge upgrade over Malhotra and Lappy for 3rd line C anyways.
He put up those points with Lupul and Kessel going PPG on his wings. How many is he going to put on the 3rd with out 3rd line wingers. He's no defensive stalwart to go with that reduction.

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01-07-2013, 01:39 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
There is no law that says your 3rd line C has to be a defensive stalwart. In our case we can get away with someone like Bozak there because Hansen and Higgins are extremely sound on the defensive side.

It's painfull obvious we need better secondary scoring from lines 2-4, I'm sure Gillis knows that.
No there isn't a law, but I think it's obvious we could expect Bozak to put up less than 47 points when he's not getting 1st line and 1st PP time with two PPG players.

I guess the point is, why go after a player that 'might' be shelterable if we can insulate him with good two-way wingers, and go after a better player.

Hopefully that's attainable with a top tier goalie.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:50 AM
  #130
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^And while there isn't a law, it seems to pretty much be a rule under AV's system. He wants his 3rd and 4th lines to be sound defensively, so if Bozak can't bring that, I don't think it would bode well for him.

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01-07-2013, 02:07 AM
  #131
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While this certainly stabilizes Luongo's value, I still don't see any new possibilities with the Leafs.

Taking guys like Horcoff, Upshall, Dipietro, or any other terrible, terrible, terrible contract, to be bought out of course, opens other avenues. The more I think about Komisarek being added to increase our value, or at least make it seem to justify what Toronto will spend, the more I think "meh". Our problem is that we already seem to be taking plenty of quantity, and a lesser amount of quality, then our roster requires.

Maybe it's just too much hockey today, but there is almost nothing to bring Luongo's contract's value down, the receiving team isn't forced to pay it out if he retires, there are no penalties, for the next 10 years anyway, and there isn't a totally disastrous roll back in the cap (64.3 million...next year). The only thing detractors can try to build an argument around is "what if he doesn't retire if he starts to play poorly?". Not to be presumptuous, but what if the piece we receive in a trade ends up with a critical golf injury after the trade is made, leaving a 9-iron stuck in his leg? Worrying about ifs like that will keep you from ever making a trade.

Anyway, yay, hockey!

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01-07-2013, 02:20 AM
  #132
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I still see Florida being the frontrunner.

Maybe something like this;

To
G Roberto Luongo
C Jordan Schroeder

To
RW Kris Versteeg
D Keaton Ellerby
+ (prospect/pick)


What do you think?

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01-07-2013, 02:24 AM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
I still see Florida being the frontrunner.

Maybe something like this;

To
G Roberto Luongo
C Jordan Schroeder

To
RW Kris Versteeg
D Keaton Ellerby
+

What do you think?
The biggest problem is that Florida has very poor offence. Versteeg is one of the guys that can score, and is still young enough to keep around for a long time. It's digging a deeper hole offensively to pile dirt on top of a talent-mound they have with their goaltending.

My other problem, although probably secondary, is the value for us. What kind of + are we talking about here? I have a poor opinion of Ellerby, and added players are likely cap dumps in the mold of Upshall or Kopecky, not much of value. If we could get Howden, Shore or Petrovic instead of Ellerby, and a cap dump, I'd be more then in, but alas, it takes two to tango, and I don't see the Panthers doing this.

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01-07-2013, 02:26 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
The biggest problem is that Florida has very poor offence. Versteeg is one of the guys that can score, and is still young enough to keep around for a long time. It's digging a deeper hole offensively to pile dirt on top of a talent-mound they have with their goaltending.

My other problem, although probably secondary, is the value for us. What kind of + are we talking about here? I have a poor opinion of Ellerby, and added players are likely cap dumps in the mold of Upshall or Kopecky, not much of value. If we could get Howden, Shore or Petrovic instead of Ellerby, and a cap dump, I'd be more then in, but alas, it takes two to tango, and I don't see the Panthers doing this.
The + varies on how much they feel they need to add to the deal to make it fair, Would dealing Kulikov instead of Versteeg be any better?

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01-07-2013, 02:33 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
The + varies on how much they feel they need to add to the deal to make it fair, Would dealing Kulikov instead of Versteeg be any better?
I'd imagine it would be easier to swallow, but Kulikov is reading off like a juiced up, younger Ballard. He loves to jump in to the offensive play, is a great skater, isn't super big (while being bigger then Ballard) and actually owns a pretty good shot. However, he is prone to brain cramps in the defensive zone, isn't super physical, plays the left, and while he is only, what, three seasons in to his career, he probably won't get the chance to progress with Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa and possibly Ballard, Tanev or Garrison ahead of him.

I'd much prefer Versteeg, all things being equal, but I think Kuli might be easier prey.

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01-07-2013, 02:34 AM
  #136
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Yeah. I'd rather not take on another Florida top six winger who makes over 4 million a year on a long contract.

Where on earth do you expect Kassian and Jensen to play next season?

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01-07-2013, 02:38 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
Yeah. I'd rather not take on another Florida top six winger who makes over 4 million a year on a long contract.

Where on earth do you expect Kassian and Jensen to play next season?
First off, we don't even know if Jensen is NHL ready next season, and I don't feel he will be playing in the Top-6 when he does break into the NHL when he does, he has the size to play on the 3rd line.

Secondly, Kassian hasn't exactly showed us he's top-6 caliber yet. He doesn't quite have the offensive skillset to be a threat on the top 2 lines, and he's much more effective right now playing bottom-6 and being a physical presence.

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01-07-2013, 02:46 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
First off, we don't even know if Jensen is NHL ready next season, and I don't feel he will be playing in the Top-6 when he does break into the NHL when he does, he has the size to play on the 3rd line.

Secondly, Kassian hasn't exactly showed us he's top-6 caliber yet. He doesn't quite have the offensive skillset to be a threat on the top 2 lines, and he's much more effective right now playing bottom-6 and being a physical presence.
Agreed. The only thing with Kassian as a physical presence, what if he gets gun shy after penalties like last year? I'd rather let him play on the Wolves if he isn't completely ready to be a top 6 guy.

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01-07-2013, 03:00 AM
  #139
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The comparative for Kadri is Hodgson. *Hodgson when he contributed offensively, provided a spark. *AV did play him and the team was no worse for the wear mainly because he was surrounded by veterans who play two-way hockey, as all rookies should be...but on some teams are not.

Btw, Kadri doesn't have the skating issues that Hodgson did.

With the addition of Kadri, Canucks could have a few young prospects up front, some of whom could *flourish

Kadri
Schroeder
Kassian
Jensen

if well surrounded...

Henrik Daniel
Higgins Kes
Burr Hansen
Lapierre Raymond

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:22 AM
  #140
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A team that I feel could be a dark horse in this is the NYI. Now I say that because if you look at that team they are a couple pieces away from being competitive. A solid dman and a #1 goalie like Lui and they are a playoff team or close too it. Add to that they are moving to Brooklyn in 2 years and suddenly you have a team needing a big name (Tavares isn't big to casual fans) and suddenly you get a big name that can battle for the title of superstar in a city that is dominated by king henrik right now. That could add some great rivalry aspect to their games.

Just have to wonder what they would be willing to give us.

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01-07-2013, 03:55 AM
  #141
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I think Luongo's value will be much higher at the deadline. If we trade him, let him build some value. Goalies are a hard sell unless a team is thinking playoffs or deep run in playoffs.

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01-07-2013, 03:59 AM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
The comparative for Kadri is Hodgson. *Hodgson when he contributed offensively, provided a spark. *AV did play him and the team was no worse for the wear mainly because he was surrounded by veterans who play two-way hockey, as all rookies should be...but on some teams are not.

Btw, Kadri doesn't have the skating issues that Hodgson did.

With the addition of Kadri, Canucks could have a few young prospects up front, some of whom could *flourish

Kadri
Schroeder
Kassian
Jensen

if well surrounded...

Henrik Daniel
Higgins Kes
Burr Hansen
Lapierre Raymond
It's a good point. Malhotra and/or Lappy played alongside Hodgson for a the first few months last season (as his chaperone and face off man). I'd assume Kadri would get the same babysitting treatment - and this yr the Canucks have the lineup to shelter/babysit him. Almost all rookies are going to need this treatment on a good team.

I'm ok with Kadri, he's the best of what Tor has to offer in the 'C' department. Hansen, Raymond, Higgins, Lappy, Weise all learned AV's strict defense codes over time and excelled. I'd hope Kadri and Kassian (over time) would do the same.

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01-07-2013, 04:05 AM
  #143
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Kadri is almost guaranteed to switch to wing at the NHL level. I can't imagine he will stay a center. If he does, he won't be a good one.

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01-07-2013, 04:24 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by xtra View Post
A team that I feel could be a dark horse in this is the NYI. Now I say that because if you look at that team they are a couple pieces away from being competitive. A solid dman and a #1 goalie like Lui and they are a playoff team or close too it. Add to that they are moving to Brooklyn in 2 years and suddenly you have a team needing a big name (Tavares isn't big to casual fans) and suddenly you get a big name that can battle for the title of superstar in a city that is dominated by king henrik right now. That could add some great rivalry aspect to their games.

Just have to wonder what they would be willing to give us.
Secretly I've always thought the NYI could be a real possibility for a trade partner. I think Luo could be exactly what that team needs in order to make the next step. They definitely have some pieces that Gillis would be interested in.

This is so awesome! Finally we get to start talking trades and hockey instead of watching greedy lawyers walking down the streets of NY city.

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01-07-2013, 04:36 AM
  #145
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I can't believe the hype surrounding the Leafs and Luongo, the players they have to offer do not fit our team's needs in any way (if Gillis is indeed seeking a roster player). Florida has better options but I agree with those who think it will be a darkhorse team to get Lu.

Edit: I should also add that some of our prospects are also not quite ready to fit in with the team. I don't believe Jensen, Kassian or Connauton are ready. Schroeder is a longshot as well but he would be the optimal choice for "fill-in prospect to handle the NHL two-way game". Anyways, I believe we need to aquire players to fill the holes, just noone from the Leafs.


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Old
01-07-2013, 04:49 AM
  #146
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Secretly I've always thought the NYI could be a real possibility for a trade partner. I think Luo could be exactly what that team needs in order to make the next step. They definitely have some pieces that Gillis would be interested in.

This is so awesome! Finally we get to start talking trades and hockey instead of watching greedy lawyers walking down the streets of NY city.
I don't see the Isles as a fit for Luongo. I do thik they fit Schneider though. They have top tier assets that are worthy of a Schnieder trade and their young goalies are really nothing special. I assume Dipietro is a guaranteed buyout next summer.

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:08 AM
  #147
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It sounds like the punishment for backdiving contracts (a.k.a The Burke Clause) is not apart of the new CBA. Anyone hear differently?
I was wondering this too. TSN/Siegel suggests that we simply do not know at this point: http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=412953

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01-07-2013, 05:28 AM
  #148
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It really is too bad Columbus isn't a viable destination for Luongo. We really need a #2b sort of Center and Brassard would fit the bill perfectly. Luongo for Brassard straight up...that'd be swell. But it's outside the realm of possibility sadly.

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01-07-2013, 05:45 AM
  #149
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IT'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN.

Really though, gotta assume a Lu trade is imminent.

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01-07-2013, 07:07 AM
  #150
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^And while there isn't a law, it seems to pretty much be a rule under AV's system. He wants his 3rd and 4th lines to be sound defensively, so if Bozak can't bring that, I don't think it would bode well for him.
Thanks for reminding me that Vigneault is still our coach, I had forgotten for the past 8 months...

How did exchanging Hodgson for defensive mastermind Pahlson turn out? We lack natural goal scorers in our top 6 as is, so to just completely ignore dressing skill players on the 3rd line is extremely stupid - but Im not surprised AV advocates that.

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