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The case for a 1-year surgical tank for the Habs

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Old
01-06-2013, 10:32 PM
  #726
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Originally Posted by Gustave View Post
No. It was a one time deal for me. We got our player, now let's focus on not being the Edmonton Oilers.
This

Screw the tanking...I want to see my team get some wins. A healthy lineup can get us into the playoffs, last year we had the 2nd most man games lost.

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01-06-2013, 11:10 PM
  #727
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Depending on the new draft odds distribution, I'd consider another tank.

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01-06-2013, 11:13 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Fact is that feasted made it clear gather had been trying to get bourque for a long time... Meaning we had not met the asking price.

Clammy spouts off, and the deal gets closed within a day...

Add to that the post trade comments that at least some gms around the league had no idea clammy was in the block before getting traded, and I'd say that your skepticism is misplaced or misdirected.

As fans, we will never know the full story, but connecting the dots on some moves is easier than others... In this case, the dots point to PG making the deal he wanted for the asset he wanted vs shopping the player around to gauge the possible returns available.

And to point out... While I think it's bad management practice to not properly find out what your assets are worth, I do think GMs need to at times be bold enough to specifically target certain assets almost regardless of the cost to land them (bourque certainly does not qualify for that)...
And, I think the clammy trade was at least decent for us ignoring what "may" have been offered by other teams.

That's to say the trade itself wasn't so bad, just the apparent process used to get there. In management, process and culture are king, and PG failed at both.
The mouthing-off could have been the final straw, not the prime cause. I wanted to see Cammalleri gone. He seemed as uninvolved in the rough and tumble as the luna moth in the Ambien commercials and he wasn't making up for it with scoring feats.

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01-06-2013, 11:23 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
as much as i despise another year like last. part of me thinks a mckinnon, drouin, jones or barkov makes the habs perennial contenders for the next decade
And then there will be potential superstars the year after that and the year after that and the year after that.

Lets just play for draft picks from now on.


The insanity continues.........

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01-06-2013, 11:28 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
And then there will be potential superstars the year after that and the year after that and the year after that.

Lets just play for draft picks from now on.


The insanity continues.........


lol as if anyone wants to tank for 10 years straight.

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Old
01-07-2013, 04:10 AM
  #731
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Hum, if Mathias Brunet is right, let's not tank.

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2013/...interessantes/

English TLDR of point 1: In the new CBA, teams that miss the playoffs all have the exact same chance of drafting 1st overall - 1 in 14.

Finishing in the gutter yeilds no advantage over trying to make the playoffs for real. That's a great decision IMO.

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Old
01-07-2013, 04:38 AM
  #732
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Screw it, I was going to try my best to stay away this season, but i can't. I've changed from a tanking view to a lets wait and see view. Our puck moving dman have the potential to be the game changers here. If Kabs is in shape and Markov's knee is set to go. We have the potential to best last year by a significant margin.

Puck movers are the most important players on the ice post 1st cba, and I don't expect much to change and we have an abundance, from what I have read, Kabs has been working hard. PK mentioned on sportsnet that Kabs contacted him once the lockout was over to get back to training, anyone training with PK is taking the right steps imo. PK and patches are probably two of the most dedicated off the ice workers in the entire league. If they can give a lesson to the newer players along with some of the vets like kabs, it will go along way.


I've been reading alot of posts from Carey Price and normally I'm a bit critical of him being for overly optimistic, but his positive approach has caused me to rethink my position. A lot of what he says makes sense.

I'm tired of hoping we lose. Lets go Habs.

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:18 AM
  #733
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As if there's a choice, lol. I'm not expecting much this "season" anyway.

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01-07-2013, 06:30 AM
  #734
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Tanking is stupid, go cheer for Edmonton.

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:03 AM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Hum, if Mathias Brunet is right, let's not tank.

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2013/...interessantes/

English TLDR of point 1: In the new CBA, teams that miss the playoffs all have the exact same chance of drafting 1st overall - 1 in 14.

Finishing in the gutter yeilds no advantage over trying to make the playoffs for real. That's a great decision IMO.
I highly doubt that is the way that the draft will work. There will almost certainly be some type of weighting system. I expect it to be virtually identical to the NBA draft lottery.

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01-07-2013, 07:54 AM
  #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
as much as i despise another year like last. part of me thinks a mckinnon, drouin, jones or barkov makes the habs perennial contenders for the next decade
I admit I'm probably biased due to living in Halifax but .. the chance to nab either of MacKinnon or Drouin is one hell of an enticement to tank this year. One of them + Galchenyuk + Pacioretty and we've finally got a kickass first line in a couple years time that we've been lacking for, I dunno, decades now?

We're not anywhere close to a top-4 in the east this year anyway, probably not even top-6. We're on the playoff bubble .. again. I've got little interest in that chase, especially in a short season. Let's load up for 14/15!

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01-07-2013, 08:15 AM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Hum, if Mathias Brunet is right, let's not tank.

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2013/...interessantes/

English TLDR of point 1: In the new CBA, teams that miss the playoffs all have the exact same chance of drafting 1st overall - 1 in 14.

Finishing in the gutter yeilds no advantage over trying to make the playoffs for real. That's a great decision IMO.
Mckenzie said that the draft would be exactly the same except the part where a team can only move up 4 spots and a team can only be bumped down 1 spot.

It will still be a weighted lottery meaning the worst team will still have the best chance at #1

Also, I dont think the Habs will need to tank. Personally I dont see them as being much better than last season so they should end up with a decent pick. Top 6-7 pick would be ok with me

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:16 AM
  #738
onice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Hum, if Mathias Brunet is right, let's not tank.

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2013/...interessantes/

English TLDR of point 1: In the new CBA, teams that miss the playoffs all have the exact same chance of drafting 1st overall - 1 in 14.

Finishing in the gutter yeilds no advantage over trying to make the playoffs for real. That's a great decision IMO.

I find this to be an interesting development. It could open the doors for another Pollock.

Meaning: if you're a top team with talent depth at the trading deadline you could dangle a a decent prospect or veteran to a team that is just out of the playoffs. With this setup the team out of the playoffs would be more willing to trade their draft pick seeing as it could only be a 12-13 or 14th pick but making the playoffs could payoff dividends at gate receipts.

As a top rank team you'd be willing to make the trade because at worse you're getting a 14th overall draft pick and at best you could get a top 5 pick.

I can see a lot more first round picks being traded with this new system. I know that's what i would be going after if I was a GM of a top ranked team.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:43 AM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
I find this to be an interesting development. It could open the doors for another Pollock.

Meaning: if you're a top team with talent depth at the trading deadline you could dangle a a decent prospect or veteran to a team that is just out of the playoffs. With this setup the team out of the playoffs would be more willing to trade their draft pick seeing as it could only be a 12-13 or 14th pick but making the playoffs could payoff dividends at gate receipts.

As a top rank team you'd be willing to make the trade because at worse you're getting a 14th overall draft pick and at best you could get a top 5 pick.

I can see a lot more first round picks being traded with this new system. I know that's what i would be going after if I was a GM of a top ranked team.
Very interesting point.

However, I believe that Gm's will be alot more reluctant to part with their first rounders unless the lottery is seriously weighted in favour of the bottom teams.

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01-07-2013, 08:55 AM
  #740
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Everyone knows the draft is the way to build now, so you won't see GMs trading first rounders without merit... There are no more Bobby Clarke's as GMs. I don't see Montreal as a playoff team at all this year, and especially not without Subban... Maybe if everyone stays healthy and Bourque and Gionta start scoring again. Best case scenario I'd say is squeaking into the playoffs... Worst case is another year like the last. Habs will probably land somewhere in the middle.

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01-07-2013, 10:20 AM
  #741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1UP View Post
Hum, if Mathias Brunet is right, let's not tank.

http://blogues.lapresse.ca/lnh/2013/...interessantes/

English TLDR of point 1: In the new CBA, teams that miss the playoffs all have the exact same chance of drafting 1st overall - 1 in 14.

Finishing in the gutter yeilds no advantage over trying to make the playoffs for real. That's a great decision IMO.
Overreaction.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:31 AM
  #742
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Well at the very least before we trade anyone we need to know what we got. After last year there's a lot of what-ifs - How much Markov and Gionta have left in the tank, if Desharnais can repeat or even get better from what he was last year, if Eller can make his way into a 2nd line role or if he's better off as a 3rd line center, if they still need Plekanec to do everything, and so on. None of these guys mentioned are untouchable, but right now trading any of them wouldn't maximize their value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
Everyone knows the draft is the way to build now, so you won't see GMs trading first rounders without merit... There are no more Bobby Clarke's as GMs.
There is a Brian Burke though.

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Old
01-07-2013, 04:35 PM
  #743
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Having a greater share of games being played within the division should be neutral to our tanking chances, as we are the middleweight division of the eastern conference, and it's not even close.

ETA: Conversely, the Islanders might be a lock for 15th place, as they may be facing the toughest schedule in the history of post-expansion hockey.


Last edited by DAChampion: 01-07-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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Old
01-07-2013, 05:35 PM
  #744
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If Price plays some better hockey that we are sparred by the injuries and that one of the players called Eller, Gallagher, Leblanc, Galchenyuk explodes and gets a 50 points season we will make the playoffs.

Still it's not a lock for sure i still think the habs have a team to make the playoffs if they play like they can.

Gomez Kaberle needs to go Eller needs to get some top 6 minutes. The kid is good and if given the ice time he will deliver.

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:44 PM
  #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Having a greater share of games being played within the division should be neutral to our tanking chances, as we are the middleweight division of the eastern conference, and it's not even close.

ETA: Conversely, the Islanders might be a lock for 15th place, as they may be facing the toughest schedule in the history of post-expansion hockey.
And Vishnovsky is staying over the old continent for the rest of the season so they won't be getting any help from him.

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Old
01-11-2013, 10:51 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Dharvey33 View Post
If Price plays some better hockey that we are sparred by the injuries and that one of the players called Eller, Gallagher, Leblanc, Galchenyuk explodes and gets a 50 points season we will make the playoffs.

Still it's not a lock for sure i still think the habs have a team to make the playoffs if they play like they can.

Gomez Kaberle needs to go Eller needs to get some top 6 minutes. The kid is good and if given the ice time he will deliver.
They'd be in the top 10 for scoring for sure haha. But I agree with you, a break out season from one of the young guns in addition to the consistent play from the Patches-DD-Cole line and Plekanec putting up points as usual will help a lot. If Bourque could get back to his 20 goals+ along side Pleks I am positive we will make the playoffs. Price should be good as usual and our young inexperienced defensemen will only get better (Subban included)

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Old
01-11-2013, 11:59 PM
  #747
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This damned 48 games season has messed up my mind haha

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Old
01-12-2013, 04:17 AM
  #748
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I've always said they should have 3 lotteries, nothing weighted:
one for 1st-5th
one for 6th-10th
one for 11th-14th

eh but what do I know

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Old
01-12-2013, 08:26 AM
  #749
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by FireBergevin View Post
I've always said they should have 3 lotteries, nothing weighted:
one for 1st-5th
one for 6th-10th
one for 11th-14th

eh but what do I know
I think they should do what the NBA does and re-seed all of the non-playoff teams with a draft lottery. It would be exciting as **** as the #2,#3,#4 seeds etc. would be up for grabs. Not to mention it would generate a much larger audience for an extended period than the current format.

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Old
01-13-2013, 01:52 PM
  #750
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I don't think we will have to try to tank if we have anything like the injuries of last year but more importantly - Right now were starting with injuries in noke, and our top center in pleks (which everyone has said if we trade him pleky were tanking), Cole already is talking about retiring to be with family (so his heart isn't in it), and our top D isn't going to be in game shape if he doesn't come back soon. Markov still has question marks and weve called up half of the dogs to try out and Gally. Hoping for wins as every real fan is, but having doubts already. Let's wait and see though. Anyone know when the trade dealine is now this year?

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