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THE OFFICIAL BUYOUT THREAD: Bourque or Kaberle?

View Poll Results: Who do you buy out?
Gomez 72 67.29%
Bourque 16 14.95%
Kaberle 64 59.81%
Markov 2 1.87%
other 0 0%
I only buy out 1 player 8 7.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:50 AM
  #176
Monctonscout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
Bourque
Kaberle can still hit 40+ pts a season imo.
Bourque can still score 25+ goals...heck he scored 18 last year in a season everybody wanted to throw him under the bus.

Both Bourque and Kaberle have the potential to pretty easily be worth their cap hit.

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01-07-2013, 08:55 AM
  #177
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Easy --> Kaberle

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:03 AM
  #178
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I still think Gomez is without a doubt gone but as for Kaberle and Bourque we should hang on to both for this season since Markov can easily go down again and Bourque type of players we have been wanting for a long time and all he has had was 1/2 a season to show what he can do. Kostitsyn had 7 years and some still wanted to keep him. Let's be a little more patient with Bourque

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01-07-2013, 09:09 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Bourque is a good power forward which we have always wanted and the guy can fight and protect his teammates. I really don't understand why we would move him after barely giving him a chance
He will have to 'start to fight" to protect his teammates ....only fight I saw him in with the HABS last year was with Beagle(?) as payback for the hit on Backstrom in Bourques first game as a HAB. If he's not scoring, he will need to bring other assets to his game to remain in the NHL.

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01-07-2013, 09:12 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by vokiel View Post
I don't see any players bouncing back with a short schedule of 48 games. Specially if said player hasn't played a single game since September.

Can teams still buyout players with the regular rule?

Also: François Gagnon at l'Antichambre yesterday hinted that there isn't any rules for the cap hit of players playing in the AHL with the new CBA. The panel agreed that if Gomez shows up at camp and can't get a spot he should be waived... No need to use a compliance if so. The 2 compliance should be Bourque & Kaberle imho, unless Kaberle gets traded before the deadline.
I will see if I can find a link... at some point in the whirlwind yesterday I read something about an "anti-stashing" rule in the new CBA. That teams would be charged on the cap for any players in the minors on 1-way NHL deals who make more than $375k or something like that. This would make sense, clearly an effort to close the "loophole" of demoting guys like Gomez.

Could still waive him, of course. Could even still send him to the minors if/when he clears. It really doesn't matter to our team cap-wise if his number does count against our cap this year, since we've already set up the payroll to accomodate him. Whether up or down. Just you couldn't dodge the cap hit for next year this way, and would still have to use the compliance buyout on him in the summer, regardless. Gomez *is* one of the compliance buyouts, there is no getting around that. (Save for him playing well enough that a team wants to trade for him, fat chance of that).

EDIT: ok, here is a link:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html

About half-way down in the bullet zone on the right.

Any player on a one-way contract who plays in the American Hockey League with a salary in excess of the NHL's minimum salary plus $375,000 will have the excess amount charged against his team's salary cap.

So with a $525/550k league min, it'd be like shaving $900k-ish off Gomez's cap hit, but the rest would still count against us.


Last edited by Blind Gardien: 01-07-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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Old
01-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #181
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It's safe to say we buyout gomez and kabs. We are lock-jammed on the back end, and I think Diaz will be more efficient offensively while playing better defensively than kabs as soon as this season. The habs got a top 9 big winger 20+ goal scoring threat at a low cap hit in bourque. We need a guy like him as we have no one in the system to replace what he could bring.

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01-07-2013, 09:22 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
This. Kaberle comes off the books at the end of next season anyway, and with his reputation as a points producer & PP specialist, he could be prime trade bait next year with his expiring contract. Not saying we'd get much out of him, but we oughta get something.

Bourque has the longer term deal and is essentially a junk player who's been declining for a while. He's also got a partial no-trade clause in his deal that could complicate moving him (Kaberle doesn't). Sure he shows flashes of potential now & then .. reminds me of Chad Kilger that way. Shoulda coulda woulda .. didn't.

Gomez & Bourque are the no-brainer buyouts.
"a junk player who's been declining for a while" ?

He had 18 goals last yaer in a crap year and 27 the year before. What are you expecting for 3.3 mil/year, not exactly superstar money. Did I miss something or does Pittsburgh have Crosby and Malkin signed for 3.5 mil/year?

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01-07-2013, 09:27 AM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcadiaAxeMan View Post
He will have to 'start to fight" to protect his teammates ....only fight I saw him in with the HABS last year was with Beagle(?) as payback for the hit on Backstrom in Bourques first game as a HAB. If he's not scoring, he will need to bring other assets to his game to remain in the NHL.
And he did very well in that fight against someone who everyone thought was going to smash him. I still think the guy can play and be a good type power forward and help out this team going forward. Needs a bit of confidence

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01-07-2013, 09:30 AM
  #184
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There is an chance either of them get boughtout. First in regards to Bourque, he'll be good for 20+ goals a year, he isn't a guy you want to count on, but he'll get 20+ goals somehow, and scoring is something we need, + his contract isn't bad, his 3.3M cap hit is only 5.15% of the cap (at 64M), so it isn't an issue, and if the term is an issue, 3 years after this year. in the final two years he makes 2.5M in real dollars, easily moveable.

As for Kaberle, I agree that his playing days are numbered, but if Markov proves to be back to 100%, Kaberle is useless if he isn't on the 1st pp unit. Again contract isn't that bad, 1 year left at 4.25, which is only 6.64% of the cap, for a 40 point PP d-men. With a short season, alot of teams are going to be close to a playoff spot, and I expect a lot more buyers than sellers at the trade deadline, so a guy like Kaberle can actually net a good return ex Zidlicky, a 2-3 round pick.

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01-07-2013, 09:31 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
"a junk player who's been declining for a while" ?
There were links posted back at the time we acquired Bourque about his play in Calgary - he was going into the tank then (just glance at the +/- .. three straight declines). Flames were happy to be rid of him. For his size, the guy is soft, soft, soft. Takes a lot of shifts off. He's not a guy we'll win with.

I'll eat my crow if he proves me wrong, but that's my take on the guy.

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01-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #186
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I think that due to Kaberle having a higher cap hit, being older, the fact he was brought in as a stop gap measure and that we have many younger, sheaper, offensivedefensmen makes him the easy choice.

Bourque had one bad year in which the team was in a tailspin. He's big, can hit, plays with an edge and has a reasonable $3.3M cap hit for a 20+ goal scorer. I can see him being more useful to the Habs and filling a role that we need, more so than Kaberle.

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:39 AM
  #187
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If Markov goes down again we still have a good pp man in Kaberle. That was the reason we got him in the first place and now lets just buy him out. Maybe we can still get Matt Schneider. Kaberle is not a liability, he's no superstar but he can still play the game. Gomez is the most obvious to go, after that it's not so clear.

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01-07-2013, 09:41 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
There were links posted back at the time we acquired Bourque about his play in Calgary - he was going into the tank then (just glance at the +/- .. three straight declines). Flames were happy to be rid of him. For his size, the guy is soft, soft, soft. Takes a lot of shifts off. He's not a guy we'll win with.

I'll eat my crow if he proves me wrong, but that's my take on the guy.
I don't really care about links. The Flames have systematically run the team into the ground for 4-5 years so the fact that they wanted to get rid of him means very little.

I have seen him play enough to know he isn't soft. He isn't a Cal Clutterbuck hitting machine but he does play the body and isn't affraid of traffic, plus he will drop the gloves when needed. He can be inconsistant but other than last year he's been a very productive player. we have a new coach and Gm plus he has a lot to prove...it's set up for a nice bounce back.

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01-07-2013, 09:42 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
There were links posted back at the time we acquired Bourque about his play in Calgary - he was going into the tank then (just glance at the +/- .. three straight declines). Flames were happy to be rid of him. For his size, the guy is soft, soft, soft. Takes a lot of shifts off. He's not a guy we'll win with.

I'll eat my crow if he proves me wrong, but that's my take on the guy.
That has always been the take, and he's not at an age where you can expect change. It's just his personality. I don't knock him for it, don't get me wrong, I'm probably the same way (in a relative, non-pro-athlete sense), but for your competitive hockey team you probably want something different, a little more gung-ho.

But still, *if* he can get 20+ goals, we're basically beggars and can probably live with the softness/inconsistency issues, etc. He's nobody's ideal player, but 20 goals don't grow on trees in the NHL anymore, and until we have guys who show they're capable of unseating him, it might end up being worth the compromise to keep him around.

Flip side, *if* he can't even provide the scoring, then he's scrap heap material for sure. Last half-season with us, for example. He's got this half-season now to redeem himself.

It all still comes down to the games. Let's play them and see. I just hope we get full views of the candidates like Bourque and Kaberle, no injury issues or mediocre-near-passable showings or other things that somehow muddy the waters and make it a difficult call. The way those guys played for us last year, it wouldn't be a difficult decision at all to drop either one.

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01-07-2013, 09:48 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
If Markov goes down again we still have a good pp man in Kaberle. That was the reason we got him in the first place and now lets just buy him out. Maybe we can still get Matt Schneider. Kaberle is not a liability, he's no superstar but he can still play the game. Gomez is the most obvious to go, after that it's not so clear.
I think Kaberle's defensive "inadequacies" are massively overblown. He isn't a mauler but he has very good hockey sense and he can break up plays by anticipation much like Markov. The biggest issue I had last year was that he wasn't paired with a true stay at home d-man.

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01-07-2013, 10:07 AM
  #191
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I think Kaberle's defensive "inadequacies" are massively overblown. He isn't a mauler but he has very good hockey sense and he can break up plays by anticipation much like Markov. The biggest issue I had last year was that he wasn't paired with a true stay at home d-man.
I think there's a minimal level of hustle and willingness to take a hit to make a play and stuff like that which even a non-"mauler" has to be able to muster to play D in the NHL. Historically, Kaberle has indeed been more than adequate defensively. But the last couple years... I find he has taken just a bit too much off the detail work in his own zone, holds back a bit too much, soft touches things a bit too much, for it really to work. He can still anticipate on the rush or make good transitional plays that help defensively, but there are other areas where he has lost ground that hurt his game. Defnitely having a more robust partner would have helped cover that too. But there's still a minimum requirement, even for a softer guy, and I felt like Kaberle wasn't meeting that minimum. To the extent that it made him "inadequate" overall. But it shouldn't be impossible to get back. He's not that old or broken down or anything. Dunno if there were any conditioning issues, that sort of was hearsay, but nothing conclusive. I'm at least mildly optimistic in his case, and glad he played at least a bit in Kladno.

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01-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #192
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With Gomez' actual salary being 4.5 next year, there is no way he doesn't get bought out. With 60 million in only 16 players (not counting Subban and DD) they must buy him out (unless he gets traded somehow).

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01-07-2013, 10:24 AM
  #193
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Wow am I really reading this? Bourque can play tough, maybe he was noy on top of his game last season but he is far from soft if you compare him to the rest of the team. Yes, he does lack intensity, but he is one of the few natural scorers on the team so stop crying and counting him out.BTW, this forum and opinions shared out here are gettting quiet too amateurish. Casual fans everywhere...

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01-07-2013, 10:26 AM
  #194
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So what if Bourque and Kaberle rebound but Gio has a terrible season? Buying out Gomez + Gio frees up the maximum amount of money. Plus, I think both Kabs and Bourque are good assets for the trade deadline if they play close to expectations and their contracts are reasonable.

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01-07-2013, 10:35 AM
  #195
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Now just to clear things up but we don't have to be under 60 mill till 13-14 right?
63,4 million to be exact.

And for those asking, yes, the normal buyout rules should still exist...

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01-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #196
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I don't see the utility in buying out Gomez or Kaberle when they will each be in the final year of their deals. Bourque is the only player really worth buying out. Kaberle we could probably trade, and its better that we just eat the final year of the Gomez contract, hell we might even be able to deal him to a team looking to reach the floor as his actual salary will be a fair bit lower than his cap hit. Bourque though has multiple years left and is useless.

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01-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think there's a minimal level of hustle and willingness to take a hit to make a play and stuff like that which even a non-"mauler" has to be able to muster to play D in the NHL. Historically, Kaberle has indeed been more than adequate defensively. But the last couple years... I find he has taken just a bit too much off the detail work in his own zone, holds back a bit too much, soft touches things a bit too much, for it really to work. He can still anticipate on the rush or make good transitional plays that help defensively, but there are other areas where he has lost ground that hurt his game. Defnitely having a more robust partner would have helped cover that too. But there's still a minimum requirement, even for a softer guy, and I felt like Kaberle wasn't meeting that minimum. To the extent that it made him "inadequate" overall. But it shouldn't be impossible to get back. He's not that old or broken down or anything. Dunno if there were any conditioning issues, that sort of was hearsay, but nothing conclusive. I'm at least mildly optimistic in his case, and glad he played at least a bit in Kladno.
It wasn't just hearsay, Rutherford called him out for not being in shape.

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01-07-2013, 10:53 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
So what if Bourque and Kaberle rebound but Gio has a terrible season? Buying out Gomez + Gio frees up the maximum amount of money. Plus, I think both Kabs and Bourque are good assets for the trade deadline if they play close to expectations and their contracts are reasonable.
Hope he would step down as captain before we buy him out.
Im sure Gio has a lot left in him though. Definitely still a 25-30goals scorer and a great leader on the ice, he's here to stay.

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01-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I don't see the utility in buying out Gomez or Kaberle when they will each be in the final year of their deals. Bourque is the only player really worth buying out. Kaberle we could probably trade, and its better that we just eat the final year of the Gomez contract, hell we might even be able to deal him to a team looking to reach the floor as his actual salary will be a fair bit lower than his cap hit. Bourque though has multiple years left and is useless.
The utility is that Gomez takes up 7.35 mil of cap room which we will need unless Bergevin somehow goes brain dead and wants to follow the HF philosophy of running the team into the ground

If you look at the wingers depth chart right now Bourque is far from useless. all we hear is how the team is too small, well we trade a 5'9" guy for a 6'2" guy who makes half the monet and everybody wants to give him away.

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01-07-2013, 10:55 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I don't see the utility in buying out Gomez or Kaberle when they will each be in the final year of their deals. Bourque is the only player really worth buying out. Kaberle we could probably trade, and its better that we just eat the final year of the Gomez contract, hell we might even be able to deal him to a team looking to reach the floor as his actual salary will be a fair bit lower than his cap hit. Bourque though has multiple years left and is useless.
Gomez will be 100% bought out. I would bet my house on it.

The cap is going down and Gomez has a cap hit over 7 with a salary of only 4.5. How would he not be bought out?

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