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THE OFFICIAL BUYOUT THREAD: Bourque or Kaberle?

View Poll Results: Who do you buy out?
Gomez 72 67.29%
Bourque 16 14.95%
Kaberle 64 59.81%
Markov 2 1.87%
other 0 0%
I only buy out 1 player 8 7.48%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 107. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:03 AM
  #201
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The utility is that Gomez takes up 7.35 mil of cap room which we will need unless Bergevin somehow goes brain dead and wants to follow the HF philosophy of running the team into the ground

If you look at the wingers depth chart right now Bourque is far from useless. all we hear is how the team is too small, well we trade a 5'9" guy for a 6'2" guy who makes half the monet and everybody wants to give him away.
Bourque is just awful. I don't care how big he is, and to paraphrase the Great Tortellini "he sucks from head to toe". He still has multiple years after this year where as Gomez only has 1. They both contribute about the same to the team, I'd argue that Gomez was actually better for us in the time they spent together, but Gomez is gone after the year no matter what, I don't want anything to do with Bourque. He has been in decline for a couple years now, he is on the wrong side of 30 and to be honest his physical play more often than not overstated.

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01-07-2013, 10:07 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Gomez will be 100% bought out. I would bet my house on it.

The cap is going down and Gomez has a cap hit over 7 with a salary of only 4.5. How would he not be bought out?
Because we could buy out guys like Bourque and Prust and help the team more than saving ourselves 1 year of Gomez. If we buy out Gomez and Kaberle it helps us for 1 year, but we are still in cap trouble for the next 2 years. if we buy out Prust and Bourque we are free of any cap problems after 1 year.

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01-07-2013, 10:09 AM
  #203
Marc the Habs Fan
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FOTS, I think you are forgetting that after 2013-14, we clear Gionta's and Markov's deals of the cap too. We're fine for 2014-15 unless HRR completely collapses as a result of this lockout.

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01-07-2013, 10:14 AM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Because we could buy out guys like Bourque and Prust and help the team more than saving ourselves 1 year of Gomez. If we buy out Gomez and Kaberle it helps us for 1 year, but we are still in cap trouble for the next 2 years. if we buy out Prust and Bourque we are free of any cap problems after 1 year.
Thing is, it's that 1 year that matters mostest. The cap limit is going to be $64.3M and we'll have already gone over that once Subban signs. And still have to sign 6-7 more players. There's no way around that except to get rid of the biggest $$$ possible, which is Gomez's $7.357M. And if you have to get 6 players for that money, it's not 6 great players. If you want to go further and not just use rookies/depth guys, we'll need to trim even more. Hence the debates about Bourque/Kaberle as the 2nd buyout.

Years past next one are just not the issue. Getting past next one is the only "challenge" (although not a great one, given the presence of Gomez). Markov and Gionta will be up the year after next too, so we'll have plenty of room to maneuver when that rolls around.

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01-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
FOTS, I think you are forgetting that after 2013-14, we clear Gionta's and Markov's deals of the cap too. We're fine for 2014-15 unless HRR completely collapses as a result of this lockout.
You are right, I thought they still had another year left after that. I'd still rather keep Kaberle though, I think he can still produce for us, and with Markov not having played effective NHL hockey in about 3 years now we can't just give that up. Bourque would be a better buy out than Kaberle, I suppose buying Gomez out should help though.

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01-07-2013, 10:15 AM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
FOTS, I think you are forgetting that after 2013-14, we clear Gionta's and Markov's deals of the cap too. We're fine for 2014-15 unless HRR completely collapses as a result of this lockout.
Even if HRR collapses, there is a provision that the cap can't ever go below $64.3M in this new CBA...

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01-07-2013, 10:17 AM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
FOTS, I think you are forgetting that after 2013-14, we clear Gionta's and Markov's deals of the cap too. We're fine for 2014-15 unless HRR completely collapses as a result of this lockout.
The cap cannot get below 63.4 M$.

EDIT : Got beat by BG.

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01-07-2013, 10:21 AM
  #208
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Sweet, hadn't read that. Source?

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01-07-2013, 10:21 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Because we could buy out guys like Bourque and Prust and help the team more than saving ourselves 1 year of Gomez. If we buy out Gomez and Kaberle it helps us for 1 year, but we are still in cap trouble for the next 2 years. if we buy out Prust and Bourque we are free of any cap problems after 1 year.
Prust won't be bought out.
And after next year Bourque will have a cap hit of 3.3 Million, salary of 2.5 Million, which means some under the cap team may take a flyer on him in a trade, or he becomes over paid 3 line winger by about million. Hurts the cap, doesn't crush it.

Plus you have Kabre/Markov coming off next year which is $10Million, and $12.5 from Gomez and Gionta. None of which even if resigned will command there old salary.

Next season you would assume there would be a few younger guys making team on cheap deals, Galy, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu could all be part of team.

Gomez you buy out so you can sign guys, and Kabrle is choice to but he has increasing salary year after year, and he still isn't bad on PP. He is only worth buying out if there is someone you are targeting your cap space is needed.

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01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Sweet, hadn't read that. Source?
Same as the other one I posted... although I think it's mentioned in pretty much every story, whereas the one about the minor league salary stashing sure wasn't... ?

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...fehr-ends.html

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01-07-2013, 10:31 AM
  #211
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Here's an idea... before making up our mind on who to buy out (aside from the obvious Gomez contract), why not play the season and see how Kaberle and Bourque play, and see how Markov's knee is?

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01-07-2013, 10:35 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here's an idea... before making up our mind on who to buy out (aside from the obvious Gomez contract), why not play the season and see how Kaberle and Bourque play, and see how Markov's knee is?
This. For all we know these guys will all improve while Cole or Gionta or whatever regress and suddenly we have a very different conversation. I think the only thing we can be sure of is that Gomez and his contract have no place on this team after this year.

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01-07-2013, 10:37 AM
  #213
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Neither. At least let them play out the year?

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01-07-2013, 10:40 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Bourque is just awful. I don't care how big he is, and to paraphrase the Great Tortellini "he sucks from head to toe". He still has multiple years after this year where as Gomez only has 1. They both contribute about the same to the team, I'd argue that Gomez was actually better for us in the time they spent together, but Gomez is gone after the year no matter what, I don't want anything to do with Bourque. He has been in decline for a couple years now, he is on the wrong side of 30 and to be honest his physical play more often than not overstated.
The fact that Bourque has more than one year left is a very minimal factor because the cap crunch for the Habs is 13-14. The year after a lot of money is freed up and Bourque's 3.3 mil cap hit is fine as long as he plays top 9.

You need to take the blinders off and look at more than just the 2nd half of last year. A lot of people struggled down the stretch including Price Plekanec Eller and others.

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01-07-2013, 10:46 AM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Here's an idea... before making up our mind on who to buy out (aside from the obvious Gomez contract), why not play the season and see how Kaberle and Bourque play, and see how Markov's knee is?
Best post so far.

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01-07-2013, 11:29 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Swarez99 View Post
Next season you would assume there would be a few younger guys making team on cheap deals, Galy, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu could all be part of team.
The three bolded guys aren't counted on our cap now, but collectively could be responsible for $5.4M if they were to all make the team and hit their bonus targets for next season according to capgeek. I didn't realize it was that high.

So in a way we're currently sitting at $60M for next season, plus Subban & Desharnais, plus the three rookies, so that's worst-case (let's say a combined $5.5M for PK & DD and I might be low on that) $71M almost on the nose.

Gomez is a goner, that takes us to $63.7M. It's $64M for next year, right? So just buying out Gomez might do it, though it'll hinge on Subban's contract.

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01-07-2013, 11:40 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
The three bolded guys aren't counted on our cap now, but collectively could be responsible for $5.4M if they were to all make the team and hit their bonus targets for next season according to capgeek. I didn't realize it was that high.

So in a way we're currently sitting at $60M for next season, plus Subban & Desharnais, plus the three rookies, so that's worst-case (let's say a combined $5.5M for PK & DD and I might be low on that) $71M almost on the nose.

Gomez is a goner, that takes us to $63.7M. It's $64M for next year, right? So just buying out Gomez might do it, though it'll hinge on Subban's contract.
Most rookies don't reach their bonus targets, they are not tiddly things like playing 30 games, 40 games, 50 games or having 100 shots on net...I believe they have to be things like 30+ goals, Rookie of the Year, All-rookie team and pretty high statistic numbers.

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01-07-2013, 11:41 AM
  #218
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I think Beaulieu needs at least half of 2013-14 on the farm anyway.

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01-07-2013, 12:07 PM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Most rookies don't reach their bonus targets, they are not tiddly things like playing 30 games, 40 games, 50 games or having 100 shots on net...I believe they have to be things like 30+ goals, Rookie of the Year, All-rookie team and pretty high statistic numbers.
It sounded from the pre-settlement chatter that everybody was kosher with a perpetual cushion for rookie bonuses. They wouldn't count on the cap up front, just get wrapped onto next year's cap in the event that they were realized. So as you say, we probably don't have anything to fear on that front. Probably. But I guess we'll find out, as with a few other key issues, in the next couple days.

The other thing is the trade provisions on salary/cap space. It sounds like there's some mechanism that is going to be revealed that allows teams to trade players while retaining a portion of their salary commitment and/or cap hit. We'll find out the details and amounts on that soon too. Then have to figure those options into our various speculations. Although in our case, I'm not sure it would have much effect... we seem likely to have enough candidates to just go the compliance buyout route painlessly, we don't need to trade anybody and hold onto a cap hit. And then once we do dump those guys, we'll just be comfortably at the cap, not in a position to trade for other players whilst their previous teams hold onto cap space (more like the kind of thing a contender might pay a trade premium for anyway?). It'll be interesting, but compliance buyouts are probably all our team needs for now.

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01-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #220
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I think we'll keep both, and Gomez too. Gomez and Bourque were both hurt last year. I expect them to bounce back to have decent years. Kaberle is insurance against Markov's knee and Subban's RFA status. Otherwise, we need to get more size into that defense at some point.

Gally isn't ready and would be a 3+ cap hit. No other kids seem ready. We'll need these guys.

Also, we need Bourque's size. That's been a problem for us for years. If he gets his game going, he's a top 6 30 goal guy.

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01-07-2013, 01:23 PM
  #221
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Gomez is gonna have a big year worth every penny I don't think the Habs will buy him out.

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01-07-2013, 01:29 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
I think we'll keep both, and Gomez too....
We have to keep them this year. Buyout only takes place after this season. Then we'll have to get rid of at least Gommy to fit under the new cap next year.

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01-07-2013, 01:31 PM
  #223
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A lot of things can happen this season.

If Bourque is atroce and Kaberle play above average. Bourque is the one to cut.

What about Gionta ? I know it's our captain but ... hummm 5M.

If Prust catch the Laraque syndrom and we are all disapointed by him. At 2.5M on he cap, he is the one I will buyout.

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01-07-2013, 01:35 PM
  #224
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Two goal gomez!

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01-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Burke the Legend View Post
Gomez is gonna have a big year worth every penny I don't think the Habs will buy him out.
The penny is out of circulation soon. Gomez has been out of circulation for years.

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