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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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01-07-2013, 10:37 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
It'll help, buts its' certainly no Silver Bullet. The ceiling drops to $64M & change, the bottom to $44M, the minimum salary rising from app $550K to $725K (over the life of the CBA) while Revenue Sharing will be increased by $200M & tied to overall league-wide growth. Short-term with an abbreviated season cost savings will be substantial. Travel expenses will be lower with a 48 or 50 game Conference play schedule for the Coyotes, pro-rated salaries, and as we know profits realized during the playoff's provided of course fans do flock back.
The thing to remember about the increase in revenue sharing is that the NHL also agreed to slacken the rules a little as to what qualifies a team for revenue sharing. So although the total amount will be going up, more teams will be receiving revenue sharing, so on a team by team basis, there may only be a negligible increase to what the Coyotes get. We will see...

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01-07-2013, 10:48 AM
  #527
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I interpret that to mean his investors whoever they are have a walk out clause if they don't like the new CBA. He can't buy the team until they have a new CBA to read, ponder and do some math. Provided that his investors do exist I predict this is when the Jamison chapter of this saga will end. At least one of them will chicken out and the dominos will fall.
It will be something like that, GJ knows full well that this a bad investment, I still believe he never has had investors. The reason is quite simple, to convince even one other person that this a good deal would have been hard to do. I have always wondered what the exit strategy would be for any prospective investor. We all know that from the start this franchise will lose gobs of money for two reasons, high expenses and low revenues. Attendance and ticket prices will both need to reach substantially higher levels and the new CBA does not appear to lower expense levels, in fact it could raise them. Remember the fans expect a new owner to pour money into players and coaches, easily offsetting any revenue sharing. Speaking of coaches, Tippett and his group have been working without an adequate pay raise for three years, they will be first in line for a renew, Tippett is in his last year. What does it mean, NO DEAL!!!

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01-07-2013, 10:53 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
Joyce Clark's defeat had very little to do with the Coyotes. She never had the votes in the first place and she was undermined by another council member.

The people of Glendale have had long enough to try to defeat any of this but it hasn't happened. I think that speaks louder than anything here. Gather your own thoughts and conclusions. Now GJ should be able to sign this and we can all move on.
YAWN. You've maintained that GJ should be able to sign for the past year. Yet he still hasn't, why not?

His deal back in May/June was much sweater than the one currently in front of him, only an idiot would leave a better subsidy behind. Guess hindsight really is 20/20

The answer is simple. He doesn't have enough investors to cover the purchase price and accumulated losses.

FWIW I have a feeling that the TO nation requested the CoG's lawsuit be dropped because they are the major backer in this deal. What a gongshow, the nation that the CoG despises becomes their savior!


Last edited by ajmidd12: 01-07-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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01-07-2013, 11:08 AM
  #529
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Hey Killion, I know this is the Phoenix thread but did not want to open a thread for only this season, but what do you think of this CBA for the NHL?
Not really sure quite frankly. The Devils in the Details and those have yet to be completely released. On the surface it appears to be similar to what the NHLPA actually presented some time ago, which leads one to wonder what or whom (NBC combined with sponsors & some of the wealthier franchises no doubt) pressured Jacobs & Bettman to retreat somewhat. As cbcwpg mentions above, it'll be interesting to see what the league intends to do with respect to receiving (and contributing to) Revenue Sharing, along with this newly created $60M "marketing & business development" fund in providing further assistance to franchises like Phoenix if indeed Jamison manages to pull this off.

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01-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
It'll help, buts its' certainly no Silver Bullet. The ceiling drops to $64M & change, the bottom to $44M, the minimum salary rising from app $550K to $725K (over the life of the CBA) while Revenue Sharing will be increased by $200M & tied to overall league-wide growth. Short-term with an abbreviated season cost savings will be substantial. Travel expenses will be lower with a 48 or 50 game Conference play schedule for the Coyotes, pro-rated salaries, and as we know profits realized during the playoff's provided of course fans do flock back.

The franchise doesnt really have any stupid-crazy contracts on the books so the buyout clause wont do much for them, nor will trading cap space. Its the bolded bit that promises the most for teams like Phoenix which when combined with Glendales $300M+ (if they can even cash those checks) will give them a fighting chance. And by "fighting chance" I mean of the kind devised by the likes of the NHL & Jamison. An over-reliance upon the combination of league & municipal welfare without any serious oversite & scrutiny; creating a bubble of artificiality that inevitably bursts as this one most assuredly will. This combined with having very little confidence in Greg Jamison, deeply suspicious of his motives and mechanizations, well, lets just say Im not really all that optimistic at this point.
Over the past couple of years the Coyotes hit the "sweet spot" in terms of performance and salary budget. I think that the larger concern for the Coyotes going forward is meeting the expectations in terms of performance on the ice, while remaining thrifty. Unfortunately, success on the ice usually leads to higher salary costs to maintain that success. This is going to be a delicate balance for Jamison et al. moving forward.

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01-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #531
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Jamison said he and the league —- the Coyotes’ current owner —- have already agreed to a general sale price for the club (he did not name that price), but there are myriad other details still to be worked out, including securing all the investors he has assembled.
It's 1 minute to midnight, and he's securing investors, LOL?

Has Jamison approached little Wade yet?


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01-07-2013, 12:19 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
Over the past couple of years the Coyotes hit the "sweet spot" in terms of performance and salary budget. I think that the larger concern for the Coyotes going forward is meeting the expectations in terms of performance on the ice, while remaining thrifty. Unfortunately, success on the ice usually leads to higher salary costs to maintain that success. This is going to be a delicate balance for Jamison et al. moving forward.
True enough, however, under Maloney & Tippett, the team basically playing a Left Wing Lock & Neutral Zone Trap, though not terribly exciting, the fans are provided with Wins', much of the personnel or "talent" when employing such a system interchangeable, inexpensive beyond a few. So assuming you have a deep playoff run, should one, three or seven UFA or RFA role players signed on a year or 2yr term receive handsome offers from elsewhere based on their own play but ultimately rewarded for "team success", they can just go ahead & sign them, let them move on, replaced by another crop coming in on or under budget. Theyve already locked in Doan, and if they can hang on to Smith, short term I see no reason they cant continue the past 2 seasons successes for at least another 2-3 years.

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01-07-2013, 12:21 PM
  #533
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I have a feeling that the only reason why Jamison is interested in buying the coyotes is to sell it to the highest bidder between Seattle and Quebec.
Jamison couldn't do that. If I remember correctly there is a no-relocation clause in the agreement with Glendale so he will be stuck there for 20 years.

Bankruptcy would be the only option but he (and his investors) would lose the teams and won't be able to sell it anyway.

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01-07-2013, 12:24 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Stump View Post
It's 1 minute to midnight, and he's securing investors, LOL?

Has Jamison approached little Wade yet?

This process has been going on so long that for all we know, the kid in the picture is now old enough to be one of Jamison's investors.

Even over the last 18 months, the potential is that life has changed and events have occurred that may cause some of the investors to drop out and new ones to be found. The problem with having a business transaction taking this long is that the world doesn't stop turning. Things change.

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01-07-2013, 12:36 PM
  #535
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yawn. You've maintained that gj should be able to sign for the past year. Yet he still hasn't, why not?

His deal back in may/june was much sweater than the one currently in front of him, only an idiot would leave a better subsidy behind. Guess hindsight really is 20/20

the answer is simple. He doesn't have enough investors to cover the purchase price and accumulated losses.

Fwiw i have a feeling that the to nation requested the cog's lawsuit be dropped because they are the major backer in this deal. What a gongshow, the nation that the cog despises becomes their savior!
...breaking speculation!!!!.... :d

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01-07-2013, 12:45 PM
  #536
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...breaking speculation!!!!.... :d
Huh? Nice rebuttal....

Why hasn't GJ signed yet?

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01-07-2013, 12:59 PM
  #537
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And what if the investors behind Jamison are not interested in Coyotes but more in the assets (arena, parking). It's been rumored so much that TO Nation is part of the investors that it could aswell end up that they just want to use this transaction to obtain the lease.

Then a few years later they could aswell buy the arena, ship the Coyotes and have brand new Westgate Central Casino and Beach resort.

After all, Trashers didn't leave Atlanta because of financial problems but because their owners could do much more with the space and time left free by their move.

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01-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #538
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And what if the investors behind Jamison are not interested in Coyotes but more in the assets (arena, parking). It's been rumored so much that TO Nation is part of the investors that it could aswell end up that they just want to use this transaction to obtain the lease.

Then a few years later they could aswell buy the arena, ship the Coyotes and have brand new Westgate Central Casino and Beach resort.

After all, Trashers didn't leave Atlanta because of financial problems but because their owners could do much more with the space and time left free by their move.
I thought the so called investors were just lending money to Jamison? If so, they won't own a chunk of the Coyotes, nor the arena.

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01-07-2013, 02:07 PM
  #539
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well, interesting theory there powerstruck, and anythings possible. If indeed the Tohono's Band are minority partners & investors in Jamisons Group, the Fur is sure to start Flying, and a lot sooner than speculatively 2-5yrs down the road, the purchase of Glendale Arena, breaking of the Lease, Relocation of the Coyotes. Indeed, its been widely speculated here & elsewhere that the Tohono's are involved which is precisely why GJ is saying absolutely nothing in identifying who his partners might be.

Personally, I like the idea of turning Westgate into a true Sports & Entertainment Destination including gambling, however, I dont live there, wont have to live with it, and there's obviously been a heck of a lot of opposition to the concept for the development of lands adjacent to the area for that purpose. Tens of millions spent by the COG in fighting off the Bands plans as you know. Initially theyd volunteered to pay Glendale a 10% flat tax on all revenues from hotel room bookings to gambling, retail sales tax etc to cover the costs of basic infrastructure (sewers, water, electricity) but were told "wont be enough" on top of all kinds of other issues.

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01-07-2013, 02:08 PM
  #540
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I thought the so called investors were just lending money to Jamison? If so, they won't own a chunk of the Coyotes, nor the arena.
Your mistaken. It would be an ownership group.

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01-07-2013, 02:11 PM
  #541
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It's been rumored so much that TO Nation is part of the investors that it could aswell end up that they just want to use this transaction to obtain the lease. .
Except they are not, and the lease spells out that any entity in existing litigation with the CoG cannot be an owner in the team, which would rule out the TO Nation. (Not that I see an issue with the TO Nation owning part of the team personally, and I believe the CoG's position on the tribe's desire to set up gaming is stupid and short sighted - but what is new....).

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01-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #542
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I know its from Sunnucks....

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...financing.html

Prospective Phoenix Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison is still trying to secure late financing and money in order to finalize his purchase of the hockey team by the end of the month.

That includes some possible financing help from the National Hockey League, which has owned the Coyotes since 2009, according to officials familiar with the potential sale.

“He is still looking to finalize the deal before the end of the month,” said Max Fose, CEO of Phoenix-based Integrated Web Strategy. Fose’s communications firm has been helping Jamison with this Coyotes effort.

Multiple sources familiar with the Coyotes situation say Jamison is still trying to shore up final money and financing in order to buy the team.


So does "multiple sources" mean multiple people on HFB?

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01-07-2013, 02:54 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I know its from Sunnucks....

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...financing.html

Prospective Phoenix Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison is still trying to secure late financing and money in order to finalize his purchase of the hockey team by the end of the month.

That includes some possible financing help from the National Hockey League, which has owned the Coyotes since 2009, according to officials familiar with the potential sale.

“He is still looking to finalize the deal before the end of the month,” said Max Fose, CEO of Phoenix-based Integrated Web Strategy. Fose’s communications firm has been helping Jamison with this Coyotes effort.

Multiple sources familiar with the Coyotes situation say Jamison is still trying to shore up final money and financing in order to buy the team.


So does "multiple sources" mean multiple people on HFB?
If the NHL starts lending money to an owner, every teams with financials issues will ask the same thing.

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01-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #544
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Except they are not, and the lease spells out that any entity in existing litigation with the CoG cannot be an owner in the team, which would rule out the TO Nation. (Not that I see an issue with the TO Nation owning part of the team personally, and I believe the CoG's position on the tribe's desire to set up gaming is stupid and short sighted - but what is new....).
My point was that TO would be able to make money with or without Coyotes. The other thing is, I think they could get leverage over city by OWNING ground and building (arena), something, they currently do not own and thus can't do much about a NO from Glendale.

Now, there has been threads and threads of speculation of who might or might not be part of Jamison Investors Group, and to be honest, as far as I remember, TO are the only one who stuck for long time and still are part of the rumors.

I am not claiming that would happen the day after final deal gets signed, but you know, you own 5% and two years later you own 55%, today your word does not count for much, two years from now you make all the decisions.

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01-07-2013, 03:30 PM
  #545
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Here's what I don't understand about all of this...if Jamison is having such a hard time rounding up investors, as so many have suggested, what is his motivation behind all of this? Seeing that it appears to be such a difficult deal to patch together, why is he so interested in trying to put together such a deal? Does he stand to gain a lot personally from all of this?

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01-07-2013, 03:42 PM
  #546
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So how much more revenue sharing money does Jamieson get under the new CBA?

Is it enough to make the team viable?

 
Old
01-07-2013, 03:53 PM
  #547
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So how much more revenue sharing money does Jamieson get under the new CBA?

Is it enough to make the team viable?
Should be an additional $10m-ish, and then he should save about $5m in payroll. He also gets about $11m in payments from the city.

Losses are rumoured to be about $30m / year, so with $26m in savings / additional revenue, he's not that far away from break even.

But if he's looking to sell it as a worthwhile investment, he'll need about 5% ROI ($8.5m per year). So he needs to build about $12m in additional yearly revenue over what the franchise has been doing.

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01-07-2013, 04:14 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I know its from Sunnucks....

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...financing.html

Prospective Phoenix Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison is still trying to secure late financing and money in order to finalize his purchase of the hockey team by the end of the month.

That includes some possible financing help from the National Hockey League, which has owned the Coyotes since 2009, according to officials familiar with the potential sale.

“He is still looking to finalize the deal before the end of the month,” said Max Fose, CEO of Phoenix-based Integrated Web Strategy. Fose’s communications firm has been helping Jamison with this Coyotes effort.

Multiple sources familiar with the Coyotes situation say Jamison is still trying to shore up final money and financing in order to buy the team.


So does "multiple sources" mean multiple people on HFB?
Well, the title of the article does say possible financing. There may be a few powerball draws still to come before Jan 31.....it's all good

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01-07-2013, 04:33 PM
  #549
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Huh? Nice rebuttal....

Why hasn't GJ signed yet?
Your GUESS is as good as mine. See what I'm saying? You excuse my speculation and replace it with your own.

We are only allowed to see what 'THEY' want (NHL, GJ, etc.). Trying to guess what is really going on is like telling everyone how tall someone is just by knowing their hat size.

So, there really isn't an appropriate rebuttal. Because rarely can someone speculate without getting their own feelings in the way.

There isn't one person on this board that has proven that they have 'inside information' so they are stuck out here on the outside with the rest of us to guess and try to shoot each other down. But the NHL owns the shooting range and will only allow us to shoot at targets they provide unfortunately.

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01-07-2013, 04:41 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
I know its from Sunnucks....

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...financing.html

Prospective Phoenix Coyotes buyer Greg Jamison is still trying to secure late financing and money in order to finalize his purchase of the hockey team by the end of the month.

That includes some possible financing help from the National Hockey League, which has owned the Coyotes since 2009, according to officials familiar with the potential sale.

“He is still looking to finalize the deal before the end of the month,” said Max Fose, CEO of Phoenix-based Integrated Web Strategy. Fose’s communications firm has been helping Jamison with this Coyotes effort.

Multiple sources familiar with the Coyotes situation say Jamison is still trying to shore up final money and financing in order to buy the team.


So does "multiple sources" mean multiple people on HFB?

Does he really think the NHL will just hand him 100 millions so he can give it back to them to ''buy'' the team?

Wait... that sounds like a ''crazy enough to work'' kind of plan I'm almost afraid the NHL would be willing to pull off to save their golden franchise the Yotes!

Well, anyways, for once there is a HARD deadline on this madness: If in the next 24 days he cant somehow pull all the money together and buy the team, he's pretty much done since the new Glendale Council will then give him the finger instead of money.

So yeah..... tick, tock, tick, tock....... (Time to wind up the Nordiques Meter from 10% to 25%, and going up quickly if there isn't quick progress, but that's just my humble opinion)

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