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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:56 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by QuebecPride View Post
I'm pretty sure Erne was playing with Grigorenko when Duclair was injured. That must have been a good 15 games. I'm not saying his stats are inflated, don't get me wrong. Just saying that he did play with Grigorenko and that might be what mislead some posters as far as who Erne is playing with.
True. Split time with him and Shaw. He played a little more with Shaw especially when Kucherov was there.

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01-07-2013, 07:15 AM
  #627
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I am wondering if anyone has watched Frederic Gauthier play recently. I understand he is a big boy at 6-5. Thoughts as to where he might end up being picked?
I saw him yesterday. Seriously, the Habs better pick him with their first 2nd rounder, if he's still available.

Should be a 1st rounder, albeit a late one.

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01-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #628
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He's gotta be drunk not having Jones at #1 right now. If the draft was this week he'd be #1 on everybody's list.
Why, because of the WJC? Jones had more than his fair share of ups and downs in the tournament. It's not like he dominated across the board.

IMO the only guys in the top ten who had their stock helped by the WJC were Drouin and Lindholm. And naybe Ristolainen, if he's in your top ten.

Then again, it's all relative to how much emphasis you put on a 7 game sample size.

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01-07-2013, 09:38 AM
  #629
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Why, because of the WJC? Jones had more than his fair share of ups and downs in the tournament. It's not like he dominated across the board.

IMO the only guys in the top ten who had their stock helped by the WJC were Drouin and Lindholm. And naybe Ristolainen, if he's in your top ten.

Then again, it's all relative to how much emphasis you put on a 7 game sample size.
I think the WJC's actually helped Jones' stock. He made some mistakes but was dominant at times also. The WJC is not a place for 17 year old d-men and he played big minutes on the Gold medal winning team.

I think that this tournament probably pushed him into the #1 ranking as Mackinnon didn't do anything at all to improve his ranking. I am not putting down Mackinnon as he was placed in a role that was difficult to show his skills but at the end of the day it is the great plays that scouts remember and Jones had many of them.

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01-07-2013, 09:42 AM
  #630
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Why, because of the WJC? Jones had more than his fair share of ups and downs in the tournament. It's not like he dominated across the board.

IMO the only guys in the top ten who had their stock helped by the WJC were Drouin and Lindholm. And naybe Ristolainen, if he's in your top ten.

Then again, it's all relative to how much emphasis you put on a 7 game sample size.
He had a whole lot more ups than downs. He had a bit of a shaky start but was a stud at the end, he was a force for USA. No player in the draft can dominate at both ends and potentially play 25 minutes a night like him.

It's not just about the WJHC, a lot of people had him 1st to begin with, but showing the impact he could make in big games bumps him up.

The WJHc helped Drouin's stock a bit but he was not too visible the last 2 games. macKinnon lost some points, not that he was given a big role but most scouts expected more.

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01-07-2013, 09:43 AM
  #631
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The WJC certainly gave an edge to Jones over Mackinnon...for the moment.

But there is still half a season of minor hockey to go and it will be determinant for first choice overall.

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01-07-2013, 09:49 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
I think the WJC's actually helped Jones' stock. He made some mistakes but was dominant at times also. The WJC is not a place for 17 year old d-men and he played big minutes on the Gold medal winning team.

I think that this tournament probably pushed him into the #1 ranking as Mackinnon didn't do anything at all to improve his ranking. I am not putting down Mackinnon as he was placed in a role that was difficult to show his skills but at the end of the day it is the great plays that scouts remember and Jones had many of them.
Personally I think any scout who fiddles around with their rankings tremendously after the WJC is not someone worth paying attention to, really. I think it would have taken a truly exceptional WJC by anyone to warrant them moving up any significant spots. When I say Drouin and Lindholm helped their cause, in my mind it only means they've cemented themselves further into the slots I already had them at.

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He had a whole lot more ups than downs. He had a bit of a shaky start but was a stud at the end, he was a force for USA. No player in the draft can dominate at both ends and potentially play 25 minutes a night like him.

It's not just about the WJHC, a lot of people had him 1st to begin with, but showing the impact he could make in big games bumps him up.

The WJHc helped Drouin's stock a bit but he was not too visible the last 2 games. macKinnon lost some points, not that he was given a big role but most scouts expected more.
I don't agree with your assessment - Jones played very well, especially considering his age, but I'm not going to say he was "dominant", or "a force". He still made more than his share of mistakes, from game one until the end. I'm not knocking him for it, it's simply the truth. As I said before, it would have taken a truly exceptional performance for anyone to move around much in my rankings, and I don't think Jones' was was exceptional. I don't fault him for it, it's incredibly hard to be dominant as an underager in this tournament.

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01-07-2013, 10:11 AM
  #633
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23. Draft eligibles who helped themselves: Valeri Nichushkin (Russia). Elias Lindholm and Alexander Wennberg (Sweden) -- the Swedes did real well considering who was missing. Mirco Mueller (Switzerland). Marko Dano (Slovakia): "If this kid had anyone to play with... he would be talk of tourney."

25. Draft eligibles who struggled: Rasmus Ristolainen (Finland) got biggest criticism. "Wasn't sharp, didn't like to get hit and took rough penalties." Countryman Alex Barkov didn't dominate as was hoped: "Still a stud... but was not nearly the 200 foot player I expect."

26. There were wildly varying opinions on Jonathan Drouin and Nathan MacKinnon. The toughest was that "they were not ready for this level." Drouin was moved to the top line, but his "incredible hands seemed to return when paired back up with MacKinnon." Some praised MacKinnon for accepting a checking role in a different position. "In the USA debacle the brief Canadian surge was made when [he] started to play regular minutes."

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01-07-2013, 10:51 AM
  #634
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Interesting, thanks for posting. I didn't see much of Ristolainen myself but what I had heard was pretty positive. A lot of people seemed to think he was a bright spot on a very disappointing Finnish team.

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01-07-2013, 10:53 AM
  #635
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19. The other Americans who impressed were Jones, who "looked like a confident veteran" after a nervous start, and Jacob Trouba, who may have set a record for man-crushes at this event. The scout quoted on Jones said Trouba "added poise and efficient transition game to his in-your-face regular abrasive style."

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01-07-2013, 11:16 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Interesting, thanks for posting. I didn't see much of Ristolainen myself but what I had heard was pretty positive. A lot of people seemed to think he was a bright spot on a very disappointing Finnish team.
That's how I felt, I mean this is definitely a player whose decision making needs some work and taking stupid penalties has been a problem for him, but I actually thought he was better than Maatta overall and the only Finnish defender besides Pokka to do more good than bad.

When you consider how horrible Finland's bottom pairing defenders were I don't think there was much more he could do besides cut down on his stupid penalties.

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01-07-2013, 11:57 AM
  #637
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Scouts felt Dougie Hamilton had trouble keeping up with the "pace and expectation" because he's lacked a sufficient challenge in junior.


I thought it was just me, but for 2 years in a row now this guy has not impressed me at all. It has nothing to do with him being drafted by the Bruins(honest) I really don't see what others see in him

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01-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #638
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Hamilton is going to be something good but he's definitely become a bit overrated; there's no guarantee he's going to be ready to replace Chara in a few years. Sadly the Bruins do have a bright future but maybe not the dynasty some people were already claiming.

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01-07-2013, 12:11 PM
  #639
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New Top 75 from Button

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

Quote:
1. Seth Jones 1 Portland (WHL) Oct. 3/94 D R 6'3/208 31 8 20 28 +27
2. Nathan MacKinnon 2 Halifax (QMJHL) Sep. 1/95 C R 6'0/182 30 22 30 52 +28
3. Alexander Barkov 3 Tappara (FIN) Sep. 2/95 C L 6'2/205 32 14 14 28 +7
4. Jonathan Drouin 4 Halifax (QMJHL) Mar. 27/95 LW L 5'11/185 24 19 29 48 +21
5. Valeri Nichushkin 8 Chelijabinsk 2 (RUS) Mar. 4/95 LW L 6'4/196 32 12 8 20 +15
6. Sean Monahan 6 Ottawa (OHL) Oct. 12/94 C L 6'2/186 32 14 33 47 +1
7. Nikita Zadorov 7 London (OHL) Apr. 15/95 D L 6'5/230 37 3 13 16 +29
8. Elias Lindholm 5 Brynas (SWE) Dec. 2/94 C R 5'11/181 32 6 15 21 0
9. Darnell Nurse 18 Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) Feb. 4/95 D L 6'3/189 41 6 18 24 +7
10. Josh Morrissey 9 Prince Albert (WHL) Mar. 28/95 D L 5'11/182 40 8 18 26 +13
Nurse in the top 10, Wennberg up to 19, Lazar almost out of the first round, Dano debuts, Petan jumps almost 20 spots, Carrier down to 56, Sorensen down to 69...

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01-07-2013, 12:16 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
New Top 75 from Button

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649



Nurse in the top 10, Wennberg up to 19, Lazar almost out of the first round, Dano debuts, Petan jumps almost 20 spots, Carrier down to 56, Sorensen down to 69...
75. Stephen Harper 49 Erie (OHL) Mar. 25/95 LW L 6'1/202 39 10 14 24 -15

LOL

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01-07-2013, 12:29 PM
  #641
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75. Stephen Harper 49 Erie (OHL) Mar. 25/95 LW L 6'1/202 39 10 14 24 -15

LOL
You know he'd be guaranteed to be very popular in Quebec.

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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
New Top 75 from Button

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649



Nurse in the top 10, Wennberg up to 19, Lazar almost out of the first round, Dano debuts, Petan jumps almost 20 spots, Carrier down to 56, Sorensen down to 69...
Nichushkin and Zadorov ahead of Lindholm!?!

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:26 PM
  #642
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Nichushkin and Zadorov ahead of Lindholm!?!
Button loves toolsy players, no surprise to me.

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:36 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post

Scouts felt Dougie Hamilton had trouble keeping up with the "pace and expectation" because he's lacked a sufficient challenge in junior.


I thought it was just me, but for 2 years in a row now this guy has not impressed me at all. It has nothing to do with him being drafted by the Bruins(honest) I really don't see what others see in him
I share your opinion on him, he is big but he is so afraid of physical play. Unless he develops very well in the next little bit he will need some considerable seasoning in the AHL. All the tools will come together eventually though. If it doesnt he will become a shotdown D-Man.

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01-07-2013, 08:18 PM
  #644
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I saw him yesterday. Seriously, the Habs better pick him with their first 2nd rounder, if he's still available.

Should be a 1st rounder, albeit a late one.
I saw him yesterday too. He will not be available in the second round...in fact he may go in the top ten. His play away from the puck is outstanding, and he has offensive upside. Strong skater, great sense, good shot, sees the ice well..when he fills out he'll be a monster, tough to stop. He will be a top 15 pick, and quite possibly top ten.

That's not just my opinion either..he's highly regarded by fellow scouts.

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01-07-2013, 08:41 PM
  #645
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I haven't been following the draft class as closely as I thought I would with the lockout, but I don't know if I'm more excited to see the Habs back in action or the up coming draft in June, as having 5 top 70/80/90 picks should be wicked awesome.

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01-07-2013, 10:08 PM
  #646
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I saw him yesterday too. He will not be available in the second round...in fact he may go in the top ten. His play away from the puck is outstanding, and he has offensive upside. Strong skater, great sense, good shot, sees the ice well..when he fills out he'll be a monster, tough to stop. He will be a top 15 pick, and quite possibly top ten.

That's not just my opinion either..he's highly regarded by fellow scouts.
That would surprise me a wee bit...
I'm just not "that" convinced about his offence. He's certainly not shoddy offensively, and you can see that he helps his line produce (and not the other way around), but I dunno... I haven't seen evidence of absolutely crazy vision.

But I don't know -- I don't watch THAT many Q games. Seing him against a non-clueless defence would also be a good start

The Oceanic will have 2 players picked in the first round. Morin's offensive/transition game actually surprised me.

But thanks for your input. I mean... it's not like I talk to scouts

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01-07-2013, 11:11 PM
  #647
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I'm also in love with Gauthier. What strikes me the most of this player is just his pure intelligence on the ice. That's what a real 2-way player is all about. Knows exactly what to do in every zone. I would love the Habs to grab him. Was 7 row from the ice surface in Boisbriand and he looks already quite big. Like Matteau though, leaner 'cause Matteau.....might slow down on the hot-dogs a little...

Going back to Gauthier, the greatest part of it all is that I might have witness is worst game to day. You didn't see him that much, never had a whole lot of chances. Yet, his hockey IQ transpired. He is so determined at playing a great defensive game that you wonder what type of offensive game he'll bring in the next levels.

2 weaknesses he'll have to work on.....use more his body to initiate contacts. Is not afraid of the physical play, but it's not exactly his game to separate the opponent from the puck with his body, he'll mostly outsmart him with his stick or "politely" connect with the guy. And his first steps and agility. Skating is fine, would need to be faster though, but mainly the agility and first steps though it is often the case for big boys like that who still has to figure their body.

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01-08-2013, 07:57 AM
  #648
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I just finished watching all of the WJC recordings, it's just a tournament, but...for draft eligible a good measuring stick.

Here is my top 15 at this stage, with the move in ()

1. Elias Lindholm 5 Brynas (SWE) Dec. 2/94 C R 5'11/181 (-)
2. Nathan MacKinnon 2 Halifax (QMJHL) Sep. 1/95 C R 6'0/182 (-)
3. Seth Jones 1 Portland (WHL) Oct. 3/94 D R 6'3/208 (-)
4. Jonathan Drouin 4 Halifax (QMJHL) Mar. 27/95 LW L 5'11/185 (-)
5. Sean Monahan 6 Ottawa (OHL) Oct. 12/94 C L 6'2/186 (+1)
6. Alexander Barkov 3 Tappara (FIN) Sep. 2/95 C L 6'2/205 (-1)
7. Darnell Nurse 18 Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) Feb. 4/95 D L 6'3/189 (+6)
8. Valeri Nichushkin 8 Chelijabinsk 2 (RUS) Mar. 4/95 LW L 6'4/196 (+3)
9. Ryan Pulock 10 Brandon (WHL) Oct. 6/94 D R 6'0/211 (-1)
10. Hunter Shinkaruk 11 Medicine Hat (WHL) Oct. 13/94 C/RW L 5'11/174 (-1)
11. Josh Morrissey 9 Prince Albert (WHL) Mar. 28/95 D L 5'11/182 (-)
12. Nikita Zadorov 7 London (OHL) Apr. 15/95 D L 6'5/230 (+5)
13. Rasmus Ristolainen 23 TPS Turku (FIN) Oct. 27/94 D R 6'3/203 (-5)
14. Alexander Wennberg 25 Djurgardens (SWE) Sep. 22/95 C L 6'1/174 (+7)
15. Zachary Fucale 14 Halifax (QMJHL) May 28/95 G L 6'1/181 (-1)

My top 6 nearly didn't move. Monahan passed Barkov because I think there is less risk when going up due to adaptation. Nichushkin likes big moments...

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01-08-2013, 07:59 AM
  #649
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I saw him yesterday too. He will not be available in the second round...in fact he may go in the top ten. His play away from the puck is outstanding, and he has offensive upside. Strong skater, great sense, good shot, sees the ice well..when he fills out he'll be a monster, tough to stop. He will be a top 15 pick, and quite possibly top ten.

That's not just my opinion either..he's highly regarded by fellow scouts.
I've been hesitant to put him in the same category of Couturier, as I think Couturier had more offensive potential, but what's your take on it?

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01-08-2013, 08:14 AM
  #650
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So I'm going to assume the difference between Gauthier and Keven Veilleux is intelligence? Because Veilleux had the big body, was hyped before the draft, and hasn't panned out. I wouldn't want to draft a 6'5 centre just for the sake of it.

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