HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Eller to play in Europe (signs with Jyväskylä JYP)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2012, 01:41 PM
  #301
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
As I've said a number of times elsewhere, scoring goals is the only good thing Bourque does any more. There he has been pretty comparable to Cole or Gionta. Other than that though, his tendency over the past two seasons has been to for Bourque's presence on a line to result in less offense for his linemates and for more goals against in Montreal or Calgary.

I'd put a big contrast here on him vs. Kostitsyn. While Kostitsyn isn't good enough to carry an offense nor suited for a pure shutdown role he's an ideal 5th winger. He's the one with the balanced skill set to be a very useful complimentary player.

I personally find Bourque more suited for a 5th winger role in MTL, specially if paired with Eller and a guy like Prust/Moen. AK liked to carry the puck, where as Bourque is just a shooter, so this allows to Eller to carry the puck more who is pretty creative and a good puck handler.

Again I could see how many would rather keep AK instead of Bourque, but to me at least Bourque can be put on the pk if he isn't producing, while AK was useless if he wasn't scoring.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:55 PM
  #302
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
I personally find Bourque more suited for a 5th winger role in MTL, specially if paired with Eller and a guy like Prust/Moen. AK liked to carry the puck, where as Bourque is just a shooter, so this allows to Eller to carry the puck more who is pretty creative and a good puck handler.

Again I could see how many would rather keep AK instead of Bourque, but to me at least Bourque can be put on the pk if he isn't producing, while AK was useless if he wasn't scoring.
PK winger is hardly an area of need for Montreal. Bourque is no great shakes at it, Moen, Prust (now), Darche (last year) and Gionta are all better at it.

And while Kostitsyn was never a PK player he had fairly decent ES defense once we got deeper into the Martin era. He also has been a fairly decent passer as well as shooter and can play both finesse (13-14-46) or physical (32-81-46) styles and be effective. You could slot him in as a complimentary offensive player on a 1st line or as the leading offensive player on a third line. He also played on both shutdown and pure scoring units and on either wing. Plus his offense is stronger on ES than the powerplay, which is usually what you want from offensive depth players. He could do a lot for you so long as he was deep in your lineup and you weren't counting on him to score every night.

As it was, he consistantly was about league average for a 2nd line winger. When he was the teams 5th best winger (start of 2011-12) rather than the 2nd or 3rd Montreal was sitting pretty in that position.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 02:14 PM
  #303
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
PK winger is hardly an area of need for Montreal. Bourque is no great shakes at it, Moen, Prust (now), Darche (last year) and Gionta are all better at it.

And while Kostitsyn was never a PK player he had fairly decent ES defense once we got deeper into the Martin era. He also has been a fairly decent passer as well as shooter and can play both finesse (13-14-46) or physical (32-81-46) styles and be effective. You could slot him in as a complimentary offensive player on a 1st line or as the leading offensive player on a third line. He also played on both shutdown and pure scoring units and on either wing. Plus his offense is stronger on ES than the powerplay, which is usually what you want from offensive depth players. He could do a lot for you so long as he was deep in your lineup and you weren't counting on him to score every night.

As it was, he consistantly was about league average for a 2nd line winger. When he was the teams 5th best winger (start of 2011-12) rather than the 2nd or 3rd Montreal was sitting pretty in that position.
All good points, but Bourque just produces at a higher rate. Habs many issue is goal scoring, both Dudley and Bergevin said that was a key issue. I just rather have Bourque than AK.

I really liked AK while he was here, but I don't think I'll ever forgot how bad he was during the 2010 playoff run, when he had 3 goals in 19 playoff games, all of which came in the same game.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #304
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
All good points, but Bourque just produces at a higher rate. Habs many issue is goal scoring, both Dudley and Bergevin said that was a key issue. I just rather have Bourque than AK.

I really liked AK while he was here, but I don't think I'll ever forgot how bad he was during the 2010 playoff run, when he had 3 goals in 19 playoff games, all of which came in the same game.
I peg a lot of that to how incredibly overmatched the Habs were in general that playoffs. That was not a normal situation in the slightest. Its pretty hard to score when you spend the vast majority of the game in your own end. And you can hardly blame Kostitsyn for that, it was a combination of an odd strategy and a defense that couldn't move the puck forward combined with the incredible strength of opposition that were the primary causes. Cammalleri and Gionta were super-human in how the generated their offense during that stretch, something Cammalleri has gotten credit for but not so much Gionta.

Then again, factor in the relative talents of Kostitsyn to Gionta/Cammalleri that season. Both those two played like ~35 goal men in 09-10 in stark contrast to the Habs depth on goal scoring. Kostitsyn was just the 20 goal man he pretty much always is.

Now the thing with Bourque and goals over the past two years aren't the ones he personally scores, its the ones his linemates could have got but didn't with that ice time. On ES Bourque scores goals like Cole or Gionta, around 1 per hour. That's really good, what you'd want from a top line (but not star) goal scoring winger. The thing is there is a disappearing act for his teammates goals. He's scoring 1 goal and hour and his team is scoring only about 2. Which is far below average in the NHL (ballpark about 2.5). Same thing applies for shots, I'd estimate he's getting about half his team's forward shots as he's getting about 35% of the total and the normal breakdown is 75% forward, 25% defense on ES. Basically, he'd have to be as good a goal scorer as Pacioretty was last year (about 1.5 per hour) which is top of the top elite Stamkos/Malkin territory to get good overall offense from Bourque's line given how his teammates goals are disappearing.

This would be understandable if he was getting weak linemates that can't score, but that wasn't the case. His main centers over this two year stretch were Jokinen and Plekanec, both far above average goal-scoring centerman.

I think if your looking for a good linemate for Bourque you'd have to go for someone that doesn't rely on their own goalscoring at all for offense like Gomez or Desharnais rather than Eller who is both shooter and playmaker.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #305
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Well, I think the correct decision is to acquire the kind of winger depth that would let Eller play with a Kostitsyn level winger all the time allowing the three line offense MTL had to start the 2011-12 campaign which was producing some very impressing ES results before it got derailed about 20 games into the year. Which is a big reason I was so against parking 2.5 million on Prust.

But if they are going to insist on a grinder based line strategy using Eller as King of the Grinders is probably the only way to make it work.
I agree. I just think it would be a mistake to make Eller the king of grinders. IMO he has more reachable potential. With Gally coming around in the next couple of years, it's unavoidable that one of Plek-DD-Eller will need to be moved to the wing.
Eller reminds me a bit of a Plekanec, who's solid defensively, and could be looked at as a pure dominant shutdown center, but I think this kid would explode offensively, like Plek did, if you gave him the proper tools.
Which is one of the main reason I kept raging on RC last year when he dismantled the solid duo of Eller-AK.

I'm in agreement with Prust too. I would have much rather seen a decently skilled winger in order to give us a more offensive top 9.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:28 PM
  #306
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 23,259
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
It's never early to speculate what kind of player he's going to be in his prime... While I would love him to be a 60-70pt #1 center who can play a two way game like a Mikko Koivu, I don't really see him reaching that. It's not so much a knock on him though because M Koivu is an elite talent. I think Eller will be vital to the habs success in the future because of his two-way play more so than his untapped offensive potential

No harm in projecting a players top level... but it's all speculation. A lot of this board is. That's the fun part
I don't think 60 pt is necessarily a ceiling. I think Eller could regularly put up around 55pts as a 2nd line center. But we need to see more of him in an offensive role. It's impossible to establish a ceiling when the guy is used 99% of the time in a shutdown role.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 03:42 PM
  #307
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I peg a lot of that to how incredibly overmatched the Habs were in general that playoffs. That was not a normal situation in the slightest. Its pretty hard to score when you spend the vast majority of the game in your own end. And you can hardly blame Kostitsyn for that, it was a combination of an odd strategy and a defense that couldn't move the puck forward combined with the incredible strength of opposition that were the primary causes. Cammalleri and Gionta were super-human in how the generated their offense during that stretch, something Cammalleri has gotten credit for but not so much Gionta.

Then again, factor in the relative talents of Kostitsyn to Gionta/Cammalleri that season. Both those two played like ~35 goal men in 09-10 in stark contrast to the Habs depth on goal scoring. Kostitsyn was just the 20 goal man he pretty much always is.

Now the thing with Bourque and goals over the past two years aren't the ones he personally scores, its the ones his linemates could have got but didn't with that ice time. On ES Bourque scores goals like Cole or Gionta, around 1 per hour. That's really good, what you'd want from a top line (but not star) goal scoring winger. The thing is there is a disappearing act for his teammates goals. He's scoring 1 goal and hour and his team is scoring only about 2. Which is far below average in the NHL (ballpark about 2.5). Same thing applies for shots, I'd estimate he's getting about half his team's forward shots as he's getting about 35% of the total and the normal breakdown is 75% forward, 25% defense on ES. Basically, he'd have to be as good a goal scorer as Pacioretty was last year (about 1.5 per hour) which is top of the top elite Stamkos/Malkin territory to get good overall offense from Bourque's line given how his teammates goals are disappearing.

This would be understandable if he was getting weak linemates that can't score, but that wasn't the case. His main centers over this two year stretch were Jokinen and Plekanec, both far above average goal-scoring centerman.

I think if your looking for a good linemate for Bourque you'd have to go for someone that doesn't rely on their own goalscoring at all for offense like Gomez or Desharnais rather than Eller who is both shooter and playmaker.
Some really good points, specially with the Bourque stats. I don't see the Patches-DD-Cole to be split up to start the year, but if Bourque can work on a line with DD it would give us a lot of good options, seeing how he can play both LW and RW.

Bourque-DD-Cole
Patches-Plek-Gio
Prust-Eller-Armstrong (poor Eller)

I would love

Patches-DD-Bouque
Cole-Plek-Gio

but Cole doesn't want to play LW.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 04:04 PM
  #308
danyhabsfan
Registered User
 
danyhabsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,545
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Some really good points, specially with the Bourque stats. I don't see the Patches-DD-Cole to be split up to start the year, but if Bourque can work on a line with DD it would give us a lot of good options, seeing how he can play both LW and RW.

Bourque-DD-Cole
Patches-Plek-Gio
Prust-Eller-Armstrong (poor Eller)

I would love

Patches-DD-Bouque
Cole-Plek-Gio

but Cole doesn't want to play LW.
Pacioretty Eller Desharnais
Bourque Plekanec Cole
Moen Gomez Gionta
Prust White Armstrong

danyhabsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #309
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I agree. I just think it would be a mistake to make Eller the king of grinders. IMO he has more reachable potential. With Gally coming around in the next couple of years, it's unavoidable that one of Plek-DD-Eller will need to be moved to the wing.
Eller reminds me a bit of a Plekanec, who's solid defensively, and could be looked at as a pure dominant shutdown center, but I think this kid would explode offensively, like Plek did, if you gave him the proper tools.
Which is one of the main reason I kept raging on RC last year when he dismantled the solid duo of Eller-AK.

I'm in agreement with Prust too. I would have much rather seen a decently skilled winger in order to give us a more offensive top 9.
Well I don't think offensive skill exactly dies if a guy isn't being used in an offensive role. We've seen a few times were a really young good two-way player suddenly explodes offensively in their later 20's when they get put in a offensive role (Kesler is a great example). It will be masked though and with the org's current moves I don't think there will be much getting around it until depth on wing is regenerated through prospects graduations who will play top nine for cheap. Gallagher and Leblanc being likely candidates 1-2 years from now.

If we're talking the next 2-3 years with 4 quality centers I think the best option is to bit the bullet on Galchenyuk and have him start his career as a winger. As we can see with his play in Sarnia, he's efficient in all forward positions. Some guys (such as Benn, Giroux, E. Staal) are like that and you only need to put them at center when they are so clearly better than their teammates that you need to run the entire game through them as you only can with the centerman. As good a prospect as Gally is, I wouldn't expect him to be by far and away better than any of the Habs current C's until he's 20-21. 3 years is long enough down the road that the landscape is sure to be quite a bit different then anyway.



Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Some really good points, specially with the Bourque stats. I don't see the Patches-DD-Cole to be split up to start the year, but if Bourque can work on a line with DD it would give us a lot of good options, seeing how he can play both LW and RW.

Bourque-DD-Cole
Patches-Plek-Gio
Prust-Eller-Armstrong (poor Eller)

I would love

Patches-DD-Bouque
Cole-Plek-Gio

but Cole doesn't want to play LW.
Pretty much. The way I see it, Pacioretty is the only LW in the roster that would be an asset for the role Plekanec plays so I'd like to see them together. They also have been a very dangerous combination the limited time they've played together, the makings of the quality first line on both sides of the puck. Gionta being the natural fit on right wing. Otherwise, I'd rather see Armstrong as Pleks LW than Bourque. He's a decent ES forward when healthy and as fewer downsides even if he's no world beater.

Cole does a lot to cover for Desharnais weak points so I like them playing together. Bourque could be part of that.

If there is no ammnesty buyouts and Gomez is still with the team I'd be curious to pair him and Bourque together. They have completely opposite disfunctions right now and one may be able to get the most out of the other's remaining skill sets.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
  #310
Goldthorpe
Meditating Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,233
vCash: 500
Eller is burning the SM-Liiga with 13 pts in only 9 games. One of the best ppg ratio in the league, but obviously on a small sample.

Goldthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-17-2012, 05:33 PM
  #311
LaTenderness
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Lars is punk rock

LaTenderness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-18-2012, 05:23 AM
  #312
DekeLikeYouMeanIt
Ohhhh you mad
 
DekeLikeYouMeanIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: In space..with goats
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Eller is burning the SM-Liiga with 13 pts in only 9 games. One of the best ppg ratio in the league, but obviously on a small sample.
And on a top team, but nice to see from him.

DekeLikeYouMeanIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 07:32 AM
  #313
Habruti!
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 1,993
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
Pacioretty Eller Desharnais
Bourque Plekanec Cole
Moen Gomez Gionta
Prust White Armstrong
The longer the lockout the more likely Gally is to start with the big club. To me this means one of our vet will suffer from a demotion. Eller in my opinion is a lock at center on the third line. Also i believe that the experience of putting patches with cole and dd showed the team the we had to put biggerbguys with our dimminutive centers. For all these reasons i have a problem seeing Gionta on one of the top two lines....

Imo if hockey where to pick up after the WJC the lineup would look like this...
Gally, Plekanek, Bourque
Pacs, Desharnais, Cole
Prust, Eller, Gionta
Moen, White, Armstrong

Habruti! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2012, 07:34 PM
  #314
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Any updates from people who watch Eller lately?

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2012, 08:01 PM
  #315
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,642
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Any updates from people who watch Eller lately?
Eller had a slow week after the break, had 2 games without points. He had 1 assist each in the past 2 games, 15 points, 5 goals in 13 games

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2012, 09:16 PM
  #316
FreakyFish
Registered User
 
FreakyFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 33
vCash: 500
Does he play center or wing in Finland?

FreakyFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-30-2012, 09:29 PM
  #317
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyFish View Post
Does he play center or wing in Finland?
first line center, last time I checked.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-04-2013, 03:52 PM
  #318
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,642
vCash: 500
Lars "bust" Eller held pointless again.

Down to 15 points in 15 games.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 11:41 AM
  #319
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,642
vCash: 500
Lars Eller ‏@Eller_89

Playing with Ramzi Abid and Eric Perrin also gave me an opportunity to work on my French during the lockout. #NotAllBad

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2013, 11:52 AM
  #320
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Lars Eller ‏@Eller_89

Playing with Ramzi Abid and Eric Perrin also gave me an opportunity to work on my French during the lockout. #NotAllBad
Classy dane is classy

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 12:49 PM
  #321
Ahmed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Tunis
Country: Tunisia
Posts: 16
vCash: 500
Lars Eller, JYP Jyvaskyla

Ahmed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 01:00 PM
  #322
shutehinside
Registered User
 
shutehinside's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,559
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Lars Eller ‏@Eller_89

Playing with Ramzi Abid and Eric Perrin also gave me an opportunity to work on my French during the lockout. #NotAllBad
I used to play road hockey with Ramzi when I was a kid. Weird to see his name on this board getting props from Lars.

shutehinside is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 01:00 PM
  #323
Seb
Unregistered User
 
Seb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: Ireland
Posts: 6,917
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Seb
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed View Post
Lars Eller, JYP Jyvaskyla
Is it the infamous Janne Lahti playing with Eller?

Seb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #324
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seb View Post
Is it the infamous Janne Lahti playing with Eller?
No. It's the LEGENDARY Janne Lahti.

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 01:05 PM
  #325
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
No. It's the LEGENDARY Janne Lahti.
It's miika lahti.





overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.