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Old
01-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by BerSTUzzi View Post
The coach of the Washington Redskins...hence the shot at the fact RG3 was also "good to go"
Bahaha ok I get jokes now.

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01-07-2013, 12:40 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
What do you guys think about Ballard to Ottawa? They have a depleted blueline and desperately need a guy to play in the top 4. They have the prospects that can make the deal worthwhile.

I know the Canucks interviewed Prince at the draft. Maybe that's someone they target.
I don't think much of it. Personally, I'd rather keep him for another year unless we find something better to spend cap space on. With everyone signed, we're under the cap for this season.

We don't know how the salary retention portion of the new CBA will go, but if it is truly only a retention of salary and not cap hit, then Ballard should have some decent value to a club looking for a top 4 defenseman. Imagine a team like NYI who needs to get to the cap floor, has a budget, and needs a top 4 defender. We could offer them Ballard at a 1.2mil salary and a 4.2mil cap hit. You'd have to think there are some budget teams out there willing to give value to take advantage of this rule. If we could snag a top 6 forward I'd jump on it, but otherwise maybe we could flip him at the draft.

This is ofcourse if I am understanding it correctly. The details of the new CBA are still very vague.

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01-07-2013, 01:09 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I've suggested this in the past to OTT fans, and they balked... hard. They lost Kuba, replaced him with Methot (essentially). Ballard would absolutely see time there. But the hate he has garnered on these boards skews opinion... Do you think Prince projects as an NHLer? I like Noeson as well.
I think it's one of those trades that would happen IRL but fans would disagree with on the board. They can absolutely use Ballard and he would get a better role than he's been getting here.

Haven't seen Prince play in the Ahl yet, but he looked good with the 67s. Boom bust potential with his size.

Personally, I'd prefer Noesen. A safer player and I like the energy he plays his game at. Could be a great role player. I would like him to be a part of the trade but I don't know if sens would let him go.

@Luck: Ballard is a valuable player, just not here and in our system. I'd rather get something for him now instead of buying him out at the end of the year and losing him for nothing. Make another team buy him out. From what I understand, once you buy him out, he's a UFA and not tradeable property. So I'm not understanding what you are suggesting. Am I wrong?

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01-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #229
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If Ballard plays like he did towards the end of last season + playoffs, his value will easily go up. Hell, we may end up holding on to him until the draft.
Right now, his value is at an all-time low, and we don't need to trade him/buyout his contract until the off-season (to free up cap space for Edler), so it's not smart to move him yet.

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01-07-2013, 01:51 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
I think it's one of those trades that would happen IRL but fans would disagree with on the board. They can absolutely use Ballard and he would get a better role than he's been getting here.

Haven't seen Prince play in the Ahl yet, but he looked good with the 67s. Boom bust potential with his size.

Personally, I'd prefer Noesen. A safer player and I like the energy he plays his game at. Could be a great role player. I would like him to be a part of the trade but I don't know if sens would let him go.

@Luck: Ballard is a valuable player, just not here and in our system. I'd rather get something for him now instead of buying him out at the end of the year and losing him for nothing. Make another team buy him out. From what I understand, once you buy him out, he's a UFA and not tradeable property. So I'm not understanding what you are suggesting. Am I wrong?
What I was refering to was not the amnesty clauses, but the new salary retention portion of trades. The details have not yet been fully released, but the way TSN explained it was as follows:

Salary Rentition in Trades:
- Teams permitted to retain up to 5mil salary.
- Maximum 3mil for one player.


To me, this means we could theoretically trade Ballard to a club while retaining 3mil of his salary without any cap hit ramifications. Therefore, Ballard essentially has a 1.2mil salary and 4.2mil cap hit for the remainder of his contract. If we were trading Ballard to a team like Ottawa this is likely meaningless. But a team on a budget would likely be much more interested if we chose to work this salary retention clause into the trade. Of course, this wouldn't be limited to a Ballard trade, but I'd think we could inflate Ballard's value by using this clause assuming I have the details correct.

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01-07-2013, 06:15 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Samzilla View Post
Ahahahaha. Can you imagine the spasms AV would have just seeing the bolded line in print?!?!
Eh, that's probably the best combo for that 2nd line. Plus Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen is a good two-way line that can soak up tough minutes. I mean, AV likes giving almost all the soft minutes to the top 6 anyway... Even with Kesler who doesn't need such sheltering. To go back on it now makes no sense.

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01-07-2013, 06:24 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
What I was refering to was not the amnesty clauses, but the new salary retention portion of trades. The details have not yet been fully released, but the way TSN explained it was as follows:

Salary Rentition in Trades:
- Teams permitted to retain up to 5mil salary.
- Maximum 3mil for one player.


To me, this means we could theoretically trade Ballard to a club while retaining 3mil of his salary without any cap hit ramifications. Therefore, Ballard essentially has a 1.2mil salary and 4.2mil cap hit for the remainder of his contract. If we were trading Ballard to a team like Ottawa this is likely meaningless. But a team on a budget would likely be much more interested if we chose to work this salary retention clause into the trade. Of course, this wouldn't be limited to a Ballard trade, but I'd think we could inflate Ballard's value by using this clause assuming I have the details correct.
Thanks for explaining that to me. It does throw an interesting twist into trades.

I just don't want to lose him for nothing in a buyout (Need to recoup something from that awful trade) and Ottawa is a good trade opportunity now. There's not really any guys on the UFA market to fill their need for a top 4 guy nor players of Ballard's calibre/pedigree. In the offseason or at the draft with FA rolling around, that might not be the case.

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01-07-2013, 07:14 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Thanks for explaining that to me. It does throw an interesting twist into trades.

I just don't want to lose him for nothing in a buyout (Need to recoup something from that awful trade) and Ottawa is a good trade opportunity now. There's not really any guys on the UFA market to fill their need for a top 4 guy nor players of Ballard's calibre/pedigree. In the offseason or at the draft with FA rolling around, that might not be the case.
I feel you. Ballard needs to be retained until the deadline I feel, both as an insurance marker and to raise his value. And, at that time, I feel as if Gillis will just keep him for depth. If we lose him for nothing that's okay with me, he did serve some minimal purpose while here. We made a bad trade, it happens.

In regards to the salary retention "facts" I've given you, they are far from certain. I'm speculating to an extent based on an early TSN publish that, word for word, outlined salary retention in that way. There is still a chance the cap hit may be tied to salary retention, in which case this would be useless in the case of raising a players value via holding on to partial salary. I'll be keeping an eye on this as more CBA facts are released.

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:56 PM
  #234
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From Lebrun:

Quote:
RETAINING SALARY IN TRADES
This was Brian Burke’s baby, an idea he pushed for years at GM meetings. Under the old CBA, teams could not absorb any part of a salary from a player they were trading -- unlike baseball for example.

But in this new agreement, teams will be able to do that.

Here are the main parameters of the rule: a club cannot absorb more than 50 percent of the players’ annual cap hit/salary in any trade. Any NHL club can only have up to three contracts on their payroll where the contract was traded away under the retaining salary proviso. Also, only up to 15 percent of your upper limit cap amount can be used up by the money you have retained in trades.

For example, let’s say the Maple Leafs want to trade little-used blueliner Mike Komisarek and his $4.5-million cap hit ($3.5 million salary this year) to the New York Islanders (hypothetically). The Leafs could retain half the cap hit -- $2.25 million -- and half the salary -- $1.75 million -- in order to facilitate the deal. The Islanders would pay him the other half. This should facilitate more trades around the league, no question.
Sounds like the originating team keeps the half of the cap hit. Would we want $2.1M on our books still for Ballard? I don't think its feasible based on next year's salary cap while taking into account the raises on our team. And if so, I think i'd rather go through the typical trade route.

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01-07-2013, 10:18 PM
  #235
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Ballard should be bought out, if there are no cap ramifications to do so. He's an easily replaceable #6 defender with a 'true' value of about $800k-$1 million who has a $4.25 million cap hit. He's a total liability for this franchise moving forward, and if we have a chance to get that albatross of a contract out of here it should happen.

Corrado should be coming to camp. He's better than Connauton, who will simply never be able to play acceptable defense at the NHL level.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:20 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by MS View Post
Ballard should be bought out, if there are no cap ramifications to do so. He's an easily replaceable #6 defender with a 'true' value of about $800k-$1 million who has a $4.25 million cap hit. He's a total liability for this franchise moving forward, and if we have a chance to get that albatross of a contract out of here it should happen.

Corrado should be coming to camp. He's better than Connauton, who will simply never be able to play acceptable defense at the NHL level.
You obviously have not read what changes have been made in the new CBA. READ the post literally two above yours.

Trade Ballard, eat up a portion of his salary and receive talent in return.

Why would you buy him out, when you can trade and spend LESS money, AND get roster pieces.

*face palm*

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01-07-2013, 10:28 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
You obviously have not read what changes have been made in the new CBA. READ the post literally two above yours.

Trade Ballard, eat up a portion of his salary and receive talent in return.

Why would you buy him out, when you can trade and spend LESS money, AND get roster pieces.

*face palm*
Because whatever salary we eat we have to keep as dead cap space.

Ex. Eat 2.1M of Ballards salary and trade him, keep a 2.1M cap hit on our roster.

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01-07-2013, 10:31 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by roach9 View Post
You obviously have not read what changes have been made in the new CBA. READ the post literally two above yours.

Trade Ballard, eat up a portion of his salary and receive talent in return.

Why would you buy him out, when you can trade and spend LESS money, AND get roster pieces.

*face palm*
Luck was under the impression/misleading details from TSN that there were no cap ramifications. But there are based on Lebrun's article. The originating team would carry up to 50% of the player's cap. Meaning we would be on the hook for $2.1M if we agreed under these terms in a trade. That's just not feasible based on the cap next season and what we need to do next year.

That option, from what i can see, offers no benefits to us in this Ballard situation.

I agree with MS. Ballard has not been and is not good value for us moving beyond this season. I'd prefer to take advantage of an organization that currently has a weakness and that would have a need for Ballard. Ottawa needs Dmen and has mountains of cap space. Ottawa has many prospects that we could benefit from and we'd get rid of Ballard who might just fit their system in a way he never did here.

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01-07-2013, 10:35 PM
  #239
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Remember when we acquired Ballard?

It was for Cover if we couldn't get Hamhuis.

IMO its now imperative to keep for cover in case Edler walks.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:37 PM
  #240
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Or we could use his cap space to cover Edler's new salary ...

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01-07-2013, 10:45 PM
  #241
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Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph
I'm hearing former #blackhawks #wild #oilers d-man Cam Barker may get a try out at #canucks training camp to earn a 7 or 8 blueline spot.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:46 PM
  #242
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Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph
I'm hearing former #blackhawks #wild #oilers d-man Cam Barker may get a try out at #canucks training camp to earn a 7 or 8 blueline spot.
Just came to post this. Interesting... not sure he's the type of D man we need.

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01-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #243
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Just came to post this. Interesting... not sure he's the type of D man we need.
Maybe they feel Tanev might need to spend one more season in the AHL?

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01-07-2013, 10:51 PM
  #244
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Dan Murphy ‏@sportsnetmurph
I'm hearing former #blackhawks #wild #oilers d-man Cam Barker may get a try out at #canucks training camp to earn a 7 or 8 blueline spot.
What happened to him?

He was selected 3rd overall, scores 40 points in one season and then just absolutely regressed.

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01-07-2013, 10:53 PM
  #245
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Maybe they feel Tanev might need to spend one more season in the AHL?
Tanev is solidly ensconced as #5/6. It's a tryout. Cam Barker, how far he's fallen... IIRC lack of defensive awareness did him in, no?

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01-07-2013, 10:54 PM
  #246
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gross, i hope this is strictly a move for the wolves
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Originally Posted by TheMicrowave View Post
Maybe they feel Tanev might need to spend one more season in the AHL?
lol tanev will not get left off the team for cam barker, guy is a scrub

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:57 PM
  #247
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edmonton didn't even want cam barker.... no thanks to him

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:57 PM
  #248
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Maybe they feel Tanev might need to spend one more season in the AHL?
I really don't think so at all. The canucks think incredibly highly of Chris Tanev. HE is ready for a full time NHL spot.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:58 PM
  #249
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Maybe they feel Tanev might need to spend one more season in the AHL?
He'll be with the Canucks this season for sure. Don't see what he has to prove in the AHL anymore, time to work on his NHL game. He's fairly solid as is, and Ballard and him seem to gel with each other.

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01-07-2013, 11:01 PM
  #250
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You guys seem to forget how much Gillis & AV like competition at training camps.

Manny Legace
Owen Nolan
Peter Schaefer
....etc

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