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Luongo: Light at the end of the tunnel?

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:39 PM
  #101
Coolburn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Upshall is a notable downgrade from Versteeg, injury prone and has no business on our second line. Unless you are willing to work a deal around either Bjugsted, Versteeg or Fleischmann. I'm not all too interested.
Thats fine that you're not all too interested but then so are the Panthers in anything where they give up Versteeg, Bjugstad or Fleischmann for Luongo. So looks like we're at a stalemate and FL is not an option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
If that's the best offer, then for all intents and purposes Florida is not interested in Luongo, and should not be a part of the sweepstakes.
I disagree that the best the Panthers will offer but they probably dont have what Vancouver wants to solve their immediate or long term needs without sacrificing a lot for the Panthers. So the Panthers interest may be lukewarm right now unless they can get a deal involving the players I mentioned already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Good thing Luongo's cap hit is significantly less than the majority of goaltenders at the top ten status.
Keep in mind though his actual salary is still $6.714M per season for the next 5+ yrs which is significantly more than a lot of the top 10 goalies. Since we now know I believe that some of that cap space will return to the Canucks when he retires after his salary goes down, the cap hit may help contending teams but not some of the other teams that have been rumored to be in on Luongo.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:39 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
..and yet this was posted earlier today...

His first choice was the Panthers but, with that franchise looking to shed salary instead of adding it, Luongo was apparently told by Canucks management prior to the lockout that there was no fit with Florida.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/...bban_contract/
As I have stated three times now, I am not saying that I think Simmons has inside info or not. I don't know the guy nor his history. However, your post and his are not mutually exclusive. Here is why:

Canucks Management: "Roberto, we don't see a fit for you in Florida where we get back what we want."
Roberto: "I have a NTC, and as long as Florida is interested, thats where I will accept an offer to. If they choose to back out, we can discuss the matter further."

Again, I am not saying this has occurred. But to just assume that a Toronto Reporter is reporting that its Florida or bust and hes lying... yeah I just don't see it. A TO reporter would be more likely to post something that is pro-leafs.

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01-07-2013, 01:39 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Then you have no chance of acquiring Luongo. Why should we expect your tweeners or throw aways for our elite goaltender? Florida has an abundance of prospects, they could fill the void of either Versteeg or Flash. If Raymond were included, he could lift the load while those young players adjust. Regardless, we want value. You are not offering it.

One of those three players must be involved or we're simply not interested. It is that simple.
Of course you want value. I'm sure Blackhawk fans would have wanted value for Campbell too. We don't have an abundance of prospects who could fill the void right now. Maybe in two or three years. That's not how you build a team.

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01-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
If Kulemin is a necessity in going back to Vancouver for Luongo then Id rather the leafs just look elsewhere for a goalie. I'd offer Bozak MacArthur and a pick/Fransons rights.

Gives vancity a top six RW, a top 9 C, and a RH defender.
agree

edit: fixed bolded

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Why do people keep sayin we are content with losing? How are we content? Do we have any power to do anything about it? No we don't , so we have to sit back and wait until we become a playoff team
Ok fair enough. But when people continue to expect a legit #1 goalie for nothing more than table scraps it makes a person wonder if fans actually remember what it was like to have a legit starter and playoffs as a real possibility.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #106
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steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve on twitter......lol
another guy who likes to make up his 2cents!

Value of Luongo = 5.3m cap hit of "quality"

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:43 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
That makes zero sense from a Canuck perspective. If you don't think the FLA deal is good enough, you instead put him on waivers and lose him for nothing?

Think about what you just said...honestly. Again I am in no way saying that Simmons is true or not (I have zero knowledge of the guy's history), but your post makes no sense.
Were it accurate, Florida would likely attempt to include their cap dumps, necessitating buyouts when we may need to exercise those options elsewhere. For instance, maybe they insist Jovanovski is taken. Why in the world do we want him? Nothing immediately becomes a better alternative than an albatross contract with no incentives. The waiver threat is also just that, a threat, or rather, a negotiating ploy to put pressure on Luongo to open his list.

Bryan Murray was content on letting Heatley rot on the sidelines until San Jose finally added Michalek.

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01-07-2013, 01:44 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Macarthur is a LW, upcoming UFA, and is coming off a bad season. Bozak is so-so, I suppose, but is also an upcoming UFA, and Franson is a depth throw in that I suppose we could use but doesnt have much value.
Mac has played both sides in TO, but when with Kulemin he did play on the LW.

You're right, unfair trade that I didn't put much thought into. Didn't realize I was sending vancity 2 UFAs plus a player that isn't even signed. What if we swap Mac with Frattin, and add Ashton?

Bozak
Frattin
Ashton
Franson

Luongo

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:44 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I don't subscribe to your logic. For instance, you could theoretically argue that his value should be less now then it was at the beginning of the summer because he now has less games left on his contract. If you can theoretically argue it both ways then you can't logically use a theoretical argument to define realistic value.
Uh yes, you can. That's what we are theoretically arguing here - his realistic value. You can state that the lockout will reduce his value, and that his value will be lowered (say Kadri to Ashton) or alternatively feel that it will increase his value. I feel differently and making my case why. Theoretical arguments based on practical realities is sort of the whole point of this forum .

Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Let me ask you this; if it does in fact raise his value, how much do you think it will raise it?
As an example - if a 3rd round pick was to be originally included in a deal, that should now be upgraded to a 2nd.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:45 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Thats fine that you're not all too interested but then so are the Panthers in anything where they give up Versteeg, Bjugstad or Fleischmann for Luongo. So looks like we're at a stalemate and FL is not an option.
I disagree that the best the Panthers will offer but they probably dont have what Vancouver wants to solve their immediate or long term needs without sacrificing a lot for the Panthers. So the Panthers interest may be lukewarm right now unless they can get a deal involving the players I mentioned already.Keep in mind though his actual salary is still $6.714M per season for the next 5+ yrs which is significantly more than a lot of the top 10 goalies. Since we know believe that some of that cap space will return to the Canucks when he retires after his salary goes down, the cap hit may help contending teams but not some of the other teams that have been rumored to be in on Luongo.
Doesn't the new CBA let us pay a portion of Luongo's actual salary?

Anyways, I think a deal will follow the base of top-6 forward + decent prospect + pick, or top-9 forward + good prospect + pick.(probably a 1st)

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:45 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Since a trade means an abrupt end to easy Luongo-related topics, TSN and CBC should be hoping no trade happens. At least for the time being.

In the end i hope Strombone1 is exposed to not actually be Luongo, but Eklund, who will have just performed one of the biggest trolls ever. If not Eklund, somebody else... Like Dregerface...

More exciting than what the actual trade will be, imho.


TOML
Dave Pratt is adamant that Strombone1 is jason Botchford. He always picks on Botchford for it.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:47 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Of course you want value. I'm sure Blackhawk fans would have wanted value for Campbell too. We don't have an abundance of prospects who could fill the void right now. Maybe in two or three years. That's not how you build a team.
Chicago was a desperate scenario and had to unload cap at flee bargain prices. Fortunately, they already won a cup, thus it hardly mattered. Neither applies to the Canucks.

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01-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Mac has played both sides in TO, but when with Kulemin he did play on the LW.

You're right, unfair trade that I didn't put much thought into. Didn't realize I was sending vancity 2 UFAs plus a player that isn't even signed. What if we swap Mac with Frattin, and add Ashton?

Bozak
Frattin
Ashton
Franson

Luongo
Valuewise it's better, but I'm not too high on any of the players involved. It doesn't make much sense for us to trade Luongo for a slew of decent depth players, I'd rather get one top-6 forward + 1 good prospect. Basically quality over quantity. I'm not asking for Gardiner or anything, but a prospect/pick with a reasonably high upside should be involved.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
steve simmons ‏@simmonssteve on twitter a short while ago:

The truth on Luongo: Until the Florida Panthers inform Canucks they have no interest in him, he won't approve a trade to anywhere else.


MillarWithASave posted it over on the panthers board, but I decided to move it here as well. Its certainly big time news if true, and would all but crush any leverage the Canucks have. If its true, the Canucks have two options assuming the panthers are interested:

1) Trade him to Fla for w/e they are willing to pay.
2) Call his bluff, and hold onto him, which prevents them from spending that money elsewhere.
To be honest everyone should avoid whatever Steve Simmons says. He writes for the Sun for crying out loud. I'd be stunned if he had any inside info. This is all his opinion and what he thinks is going on.

Steve Simmons<<<<<John Shannon

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:50 PM
  #115
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The thing that makes me laugh about these threads is the people who post like they are the actual general managers of the team.

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01-07-2013, 01:50 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Macarthur is a LW, upcoming UFA, and is coming off a bad season. Bozak is so-so, I suppose, but is also an upcoming UFA, and Franson is a depth throw in that I suppose we could use but doesnt have much value.
The question isn't about getting the best player in the deal, it is about getting parts that make your team better. Bozak can fill in for the #2C spot, and will be an acceptable #3C as well. Yes, MacArthur had a difficult year last year, but is a gritty 2/3 guy, with decent offensive upside. They are both UFA's, but believe it or not, they can both be resigned at reasonable Cap hits, something Vancouver needs. Franson can provide 20-30 points on the backend, and likely not given a fair shake in Toronto. There are some reasonable pieces here, that would allow Vancouver to potentially become more competitive.

On the flip side, I've read this elsewhere, and it is factually true.

If Luongo is so great how can he lose his job to a 26 year old who's played a total of 68 NHL games over 4 years. How many GREAT goalies have lost their job to an inexperienced youngster in the last 10 years? Zero?

We can argue back and forth all day about this... but Vancouver needs to find Luongo a new home, and get some assets that make them a better team.


*** by the way, my cousin is a big Vancouver fan, and offered up the following trade before Christmas. If we take our winter weather back, which we did, we could have Luongo. ;-)

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01-07-2013, 01:54 PM
  #117
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Oh yes, with the lockout over I get to suggest Leafs trade proposals.

MacArthur
Bozak
Komisarek
Connolly

for

Luongo aka LOLongo aka Longo's aka LULZongo

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:56 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stish View Post
The thing that makes me laugh about these threads is the people who post like they are the actual general managers of the team.
Well, we technically are armchair GM. The whole purpose of this section is for someone to post a trade and members debate the validity of it. No matter how a post sounds, no one here believes they have an influence over the final verdict; at best, speculative knowledge of their GMs tendencies.

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01-07-2013, 01:57 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Oh yes, with the lockout over I get to suggest Leafs trade proposals.

MacArthur
Bozak
Komisarek
Connolly

for

Luongo aka LOLongo aka Longo's aka LULZongo
Ballard
Raymond
Schroder

For

Kessel



See how stupid that looks?

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01-07-2013, 01:58 PM
  #120
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Ok fair enough. But when people continue to expect a legit #1 goalie for nothing more than table scraps it makes a person wonder if fans actually remember what it was like to have a legit starter and playoffs as a real possibility.
I don't think people expect it, they're just saying that that's what they would offer for him.

Vancouver dosen't have to give him away and Toronto dosen't have to offer the farm to get him. Giving away the future to maybe get bouced in the first round of the playoffs this year is a dumb move for the Leafs. IMO

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01-07-2013, 02:01 PM
  #121
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
The question isn't about getting the best player in the deal, it is about getting parts that make your team better. Bozak can fill in for the #2C spot, and will be an acceptable #3C as well. Yes, MacArthur had a difficult year last year, but is a gritty 2/3 guy, with decent offensive upside. They are both UFA's, but believe it or not, they can both be resigned at reasonable Cap hits, something Vancouver needs. Franson can provide 20-30 points on the backend, and likely not given a fair shake in Toronto. There are some reasonable pieces here, that would allow Vancouver to potentially become more competitive.

On the flip side, I've read this elsewhere, and it is factually true.

If Luongo is so great how can he lose his job to a 26 year old who's played a total of 68 NHL games over 4 years. How many GREAT goalies have lost their job to an inexperienced youngster in the last 10 years? Zero?

We can argue back and forth all day about this... but Vancouver needs to find Luongo a new home, and get some assets that make them a better team.


*** by the way, my cousin is a big Vancouver fan, and offered up the following trade before Christmas. If we take our winter weather back, which we did, we could have Luongo. ;-)
Here's our lineup:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Kesler-xxx
Higgins-xxx-Hansen
Raymond-Lapierre-Kassian
(Malhotra, Schroeder)

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Ballard-Tanev
(Alberts)

Luongo
Schneider

We have a hole at 3C and 2nd line RW. Perhaps a number 7 defenseman.

Anything that does not address those needs immediately holds less value to us. I don't see Macarthur as enough of an upgrade over Higgins or Raymond to merit targeting him in a trade.

We have some high end wing prospects, some decent centre prospects and quite a bit of B-defensive prospects.

So hypothetically, Kulemin, Bozak, 1st/Kadri would addess our needs and potentially give us a prospect that wouldn't be buried in our depth chart. Although even Kulemin is not an ideal target, and is probably only a top-9 forward at this point. I'd want to go after the best top-6 forward we can, and then go on from there.

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01-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
I don't think people expect it, they're just saying that that's what they would offer for him.

Vancouver dosen't have to give him away and Toronto dosen't have to offer the farm to get him. Giving away the future to maybe get bouced in the first round of the playoffs this year is a dumb move for the Leafs. IMO
No one is asking for Reiley/Gardiner. I think a decent return would be Kulemin, Kadri, Bozak and a 2nd for Luo and Raymond. No 1st, no blue chip prospects, and taking back some salary too.

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01-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Ballard
Raymond
Schroder

For

Kessel



See how stupid that looks?
You guys are selling a "used car" you no longer need!
Kessel is not being shopped!
Like it or not, that is the way it is!
5.3m cap hit = something like:
Bozak [1.5] MacAuther [3.5] + prospect

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:06 PM
  #124
Seatoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by best of 7 View Post
You guys are selling a "used car" you no longer need!
Kessel is not being shopped!
Like it or not, that is the way it is!
5.3m cap hit = something like:
Bozak [1.5] MacAuther [3.5] + prospect
So if I had a BMW and upgraded it for a Porche I should sell it to you for $500 and a Burger King coupon?

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01-07-2013, 02:06 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
We have a hole at 3C and 2nd line RW. Perhaps a number 7 defenseman.

Anything that does not address those needs immediately holds less value to us. I don't see Macarthur as enough of an upgrade over Higgins or Raymond to merit targeting him in a trade.
Well, you aren't targeting in a trade, as much as filling needs as best as can, while selling an asset.

So, the 3C is Bozak
The 2nd line RW is one of Kadri/Kulemin/MacArthur
The #7 D is Franson.

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