HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Luongo: Light at the end of the tunnel?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2013, 03:06 PM
  #126
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
The question isn't about getting the best player in the deal, it is about getting parts that make your team better. Bozak can fill in for the #2C spot, and will be an acceptable #3C as well. Yes, MacArthur had a difficult year last year, but is a gritty 2/3 guy, with decent offensive upside. They are both UFA's, but believe it or not, they can both be resigned at reasonable Cap hits, something Vancouver needs. Franson can provide 20-30 points on the backend, and likely not given a fair shake in Toronto. There are some reasonable pieces here, that would allow Vancouver to potentially become more competitive.
MacArthur is an inferior Higgins, who already has demonstrated great chemistry with Kesler. Unless we receive a suitable upgrade, then what purpose does it serve us to acquire a worse player than we already have? Bozak is a depth player who had a fortunate surge playing alongside two superior players. Granted, he is not a particularly bad player, just underwhelming. I have no qualms with him involved, merely with him being the centerpiece.

Franson would never crack our top four, thus the probability of scoring even twenty points is incredibly unlikely, never mind thirty. Likewise, he does not improve our team. Vancouver has dominated the powerplay statistic for years. What does Franson offer that we have not already accomplished?

Quote:
On the flip side, I've read this elsewhere, and it is factually true.

If Luongo is so great how can he lose his job to a 26 year old who's played a total of 68 NHL games over 4 years. How many GREAT goalies have lost their job to an inexperienced youngster in the last 10 years? Zero?
Your 'facts' need a reread. Luongo was not displaced by Schneider. We were in a tail spin and needed something, anything to jolt the team, lest we were ousted in four. Schneider playing ahead of Luongo was merely the coach's way of kicking the team in the ass, especially as Lu had been playing well.

Quote:
We can argue back and forth all day about this... but Vancouver needs to find Luongo a new home, and get some assets that make them a better team.


*** by the way, my cousin is a big Vancouver fan, and offered up the following trade before Christmas. If we take our winter weather back, which we did, we could have Luongo. ;-)
Correct, unfortunately the assets you offered do not accomplish this. It would make more sense to promote Higgins to the second line and run Kassian with Hansen. Bozak is the only semi-attract piece and even he is lackluster.

Bourne Endeavor is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:07 PM
  #127
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
So if I had a BMW and upgraded it for a Porche I should sell it to you for $500 and a Burger King coupon?
If you needed to sell it, and that is the best offer you got, that is what you would sell it for.

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:08 PM
  #128
Vankiller Whale
Spread the love
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,653
vCash: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Well, you aren't targeting in a trade, as much as filling needs as best as can, while selling an asset.

So, the 3C is Bozak
The 2nd line RW is one of Kadri/Kulemin/MacArthur
The #7 D is Franson.
Yeah, the thing is Kadri/Kulemin/Macarthur look out of place on a contender's top-6, imo.

Lupul, Versteeg, even Fleischmann would all be better options and are far more appealing to us.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:09 PM
  #129
Diamonddog01
Registered User
 
Diamonddog01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
No one is asking for Reiley/Gardiner. I think a decent return would be Kulemin, Kadri, Bozak and a 2nd for Luo and Raymond. No 1st, no blue chip prospects, and taking back some salary too.
Not that sold on Bozak to be honest.

I'd be ok with Kulemin, one of Blacker or Colborne, and a 2nd for Lou and Raymond.

Diamonddog01 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:09 PM
  #130
Vankiller Whale
Spread the love
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,653
vCash: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
If you needed to sell it, and that is the best offer you got, that is what you would sell it for.
Do you think that $500 is the most someone would be willing to pay, though?(no one really knows, it's mostly just opinion)

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:09 PM
  #131
CoolburnIsGone
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Doesn't the new CBA let us pay a portion of Luongo's actual salary?

Anyways, I think a deal will follow the base of top-6 forward + decent prospect + pick, or top-9 forward + good prospect + pick.(probably a 1st)
It was rumored but not sure if thats confirmed. If true that would help for sure but how much would the Canucks be willing to absorb of his salary when they already are gonna get hit with his retirement cap hit later too?

Still I think I made an offer similar to what you believed in the latter of your 2 options...top 9 forward (Upshall) + good prospect (Shore) + pick (1st rounder). And I included Clemmensen (partially due to roster restrictions and to give the Nucks a solid backup goalie who can play 30 games/season) with the inclusion of Raymond (which fills a hole for this yr that was filled by Upshall). That deal has the Panthers adding $2M in actual salary without the inclusion of Raymond so that could work for them. There's decent value there I think for the Canucks but may not be the exact needs for them right now that works so who knows if they would be willing to do that.

CoolburnIsGone is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:11 PM
  #133
Seatoo
Never Stop Poasting
 
Seatoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Interior of BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
If you needed to sell it, and that is the best offer you got, that is what you would sell it for.
Or I could keep paying the insurance and drive it whenever the other broke down or I needed the AWD.

Seatoo is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #134
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Not that sold on Bozak to be honest.

I'd be ok with Kulemin, one of Blacker or Colborne, and a 2nd for Lou and Raymond.
Why are you trying to get rid of Raymond?

I can tell you Kulemin, Blacker/Colborne and a 2nd is a MUCH weaker deal than any combination of Kulemin/Kadri/MacArthur, Bozak and Franson... particularly for a team looking to win it within the next couple of years. If you are asking for that to a Leafs Fan... there is no question they'll say yes instantly... we like Kulemin, but it is a much better deal from our perspective than what I suggested.

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #135
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,557
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
It was rumored but not sure if thats confirmed. If true that would help for sure but how much would the Canucks be willing to absorb of his salary when they already are gonna get hit with his retirement cap hit later too?

Still I think I made an offer similar to what you believed in the latter of your 2 options...top 9 forward (Upshall) + good prospect (Shore) + pick (1st rounder). And I included Clemmensen (partially due to roster restrictions and to give the Nucks a solid backup goalie who can play 30 games/season) with the inclusion of Raymond (which fills a hole for this yr that was filled by Upshall). That deal has the Panthers adding $2M in actual salary so that could work for them. There's decent value there I think for the Canucks but may not be the exact needs for them right now that works so who knows if they would be willing to do that.
It translates to:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Higgins
Upshall - Malhotra - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapeirre - Kassian

When we originally had:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Raymond
Higgins - Malhotra - Hansen
Volpatti - Lapeirre - Kassian

See the problem? Shore is an average prospect, somewhat low on your chart, and the first would be high. Flash or Versteeg add something to our roster. Upshall does nothing.

Bourne Endeavor is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:17 PM
  #136
Roboholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
I'm still not sold on it only being Toronto or Florida, Luongo on the right team could do some damage. The Leafs are definately not that team yet.

Roboholic is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:17 PM
  #137
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,807
vCash: 50
I can't wait for the season to start and the Leafs have to run with James Reimer and Ben Scrivens. Even their own coach doesn't know who is going to be the #1 guy. Randy Carlyle is a stanley cup winning coach whose been around the game a long time. You can just tell in his presser that he isn't at all thrilled with what he has in net. T.O. fans are in for a rude awaking if their team doesn't pony up and bring in a legit guy like Luongo.

MikeK is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:19 PM
  #138
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Or I could keep paying the insurance and drive it whenever the other broke down or I needed the AWD.
While it is an interesting story, nobody believes that Vancouver can realistically keep Luongo going into NEXT season. A deal has to get done. Really, there isn't a whole lot of good to come out of running with both goalies this year, with a long-term perspective.

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:19 PM
  #139
Diamonddog01
Registered User
 
Diamonddog01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Why are you trying to get rid of Raymond?

I can tell you Kulemin, Blacker/Colborne and a 2nd is a MUCH weaker deal than any combination of Kulemin/Kadri/MacArthur, Bozak and Franson... particularly for a team looking to win it within the next couple of years. If you are asking for that to a Leafs Fan... there is no question they'll say yes instantly... we like Kulemin, but it is a much better deal from our perspective than what I suggested.
It's mandatory to add one of Ballard and Raymond when proposing a Canucks trade, even if that trade only involves late draft picks. I don't make the rules - I just follow them.

I prefer Kulemin and one of Blacker and Colborne. I am really not sold on Kadri, and I don't think he would be a fit in the Vancouver organization. Ditto for Bozak, although obviously he's currently a much better player than Kadri. Franson is much too slow for the style the Canucks employ. Blacker and Colborne actually fit our needs (defensive depth on the right side, and a big body in the middle capable of becoming a 3rd line centre down the road).

Diamonddog01 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:19 PM
  #140
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,627
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Not that sold on Bozak to be honest.

I'd be ok with Kulemin, one of Blacker or Colborne, and a 2nd for Lou and Raymond.
That would be absolutely terrible. I see Raymond and Kulemin as very similar in terms of their production, so essentially you're trading a top 5 goalie for a mediocre prospect and a 2nd round pick. Ouch.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #141
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I can't wait for the season to start and the Leafs have to run with James Reimer and Ben Scrivens. Even their own coach doesn't know who is going to be the #1 guy. Randy Carlyle is a stanley cup winning coach whose been around the game a long time. You can just tell in his presser that he isn't at all thrilled with what he has in net. T.O. fans are in for a rude awaking if their team doesn't pony up and bring in a legit guy like Luongo.
Can you tell me what the worse case scenario is for Leafs fans?

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #142
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhislife View Post
As I have stated three times now, I am not saying that I think Simmons has inside info or not. I don't know the guy nor his history. However, your post and his are not mutually exclusive. Here is why:

Canucks Management: "Roberto, we don't see a fit for you in Florida where we get back what we want."
Roberto: "I have a NTC, and as long as Florida is interested, thats where I will accept an offer to. If they choose to back out, we can discuss the matter further."

Again, I am not saying this has occurred. But to just assume that a Toronto Reporter is reporting that its Florida or bust and hes lying... yeah I just don't see it. A TO reporter would be more likely to post something that is pro-leafs.

you'd think so but no not simmons he might be the least credible guy in the media even cox is better and he's awful

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:21 PM
  #143
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,627
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
Can you tell me what the worse case scenario is for Leafs fans?
Finishing dead last in the league but not getting the first overall pick due to losing the draft lottery.

y2kcanucks is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:22 PM
  #144
Diamonddog01
Registered User
 
Diamonddog01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
That would be absolutely terrible. I see Raymond and Kulemin as very similar in terms of their production, so essentially you're trading a top 5 goalie for a mediocre prospect and a 2nd round pick. Ouch.
Yes, we are aware of your views. I think Kulemin would be a great fit on our 3rd line - much more so then the perennial tweener Mason Raymond.

I'm not interested in highway robbery, I'm interested in the Canucks putting together the best mix of talent and role players possible in order to win a cup.

Diamonddog01 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:23 PM
  #145
Roboholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Finishing dead last in the league but not getting the first overall pick due to losing the draft lottery.
The first part is a possibility, the second is just wishful thinking on your part.

Roboholic is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:23 PM
  #146
Fogelhund
Registered User
 
Fogelhund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,217
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Finishing dead last in the league but not getting the first overall pick due to losing the draft lottery.
So we end up with one of Drouin, Jones or Barkov as a long-term building block.

Oh.. how terrible.

Fogelhund is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:26 PM
  #147
Shawnathon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Yeah, the thing is Kadri/Kulemin/Macarthur look out of place on a contender's top-6, imo.

Lupul, Versteeg, even Fleischmann would all be better options and are far more appealing to us.
You'll never get Flash or Versteeg.

Shawnathon is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:26 PM
  #148
LEAFANFORLIFE23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
I'm still not sold on it only being Toronto or Florida, Luongo on the right team could do some damage. The Leafs are definately not that team yet.
thats the thing they are that team. They had a top 10 offence last year you add a top 10 goalie to a team with top 10 scoring and you have a team that can do some damage

LEAFANFORLIFE23 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:26 PM
  #149
best of 7
Registered User
 
best of 7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 26
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I can't wait for the season to start and the Leafs have to run with James Reimer and Ben Scrivens. Even their own coach doesn't know who is going to be the #1 guy. Randy Carlyle is a stanley cup winning coach whose been around the game a long time. You can just tell in his presser that he isn't at all thrilled with what he has in net. T.O. fans are in for a rude awaking if their team doesn't pony up and bring in a legit guy like Luongo.
The owners just had a lock-out because they think they have been paying to much!
The days of overpayment are likely over
Just remember, Luongo would be happy to go to Florida no matter what the team gets in return.

best of 7 is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 03:27 PM
  #150
Beezeral
Registered User
 
Beezeral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboholic View Post
I'm still not sold on it only being Toronto or Florida, Luongo on the right team could do some damage. The Leafs are definately not that team yet.
you are right, the oilers and Blackhawks are interested. But there are even bigger roadblocks to a trade to those teams compared to the leafs and panthers

Beezeral is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.