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HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:56 PM
  #51
TheDevilMadeMe
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Here's the top 20 based on "career span"

up to 1909: none
1910-1911: 1
1912-1924: 2
1925: 3
1926: 2
1927-1931: 3
1932-1944: 2
1944: 3
1945-1948: 4
1949-1950: 5
1951-1963: 4
1964: 5
1965-1966: 6
1967: 7
1968-1969: 8
1970: 9
1971: 7
1972-1975: 6
1976-1979: 5
1980-1981: 4
1982-1984: 3
1985-1988: 2
1989-1990: 3
1991-2003: 4
2004-2008: 3
2009-2011: 2
2012: 1

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Old
12-16-2012, 12:38 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Lets try save percentage instead of goals against.

Brodeur - 18 seasons, in the top ten in the league 6 times, never in top 2

Roy - 18 seasons, in the top ten in the league 15 times, 1st 4 times, 2nd twice

Hasek - 14 seasons, in the top ten in the league 11 times, 1st 6 times, 2nd once

Doesn't look close to me.
Osgood - 17 seasons, top ten three times, 2nd once (1995)

Does this mean Osgood peaked higher than Brodeur, but Brodeur had a better prime?

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12-16-2012, 01:21 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Osgood - 17 seasons, top ten three times, 2nd once (1995)

Does this mean Osgood peaked higher than Brodeur, but Brodeur had a better prime?
I think Scottie Bowman showed what he thought of Chris Osgood's 19 regular season games in 1994-95, when he started Mike Vernon in every game of the playoffs.

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12-16-2012, 02:14 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Scottie Bowman


Quote:
showed what he thought of Chris Osgood's 19 regular season games in 1994-95, when he started Mike Vernon in every game of the playoffs.
And he traded Cheveldae and Drake to get Essensa the year before (technically, had them traded) after a rookie Osgood took away the starting job from Chevy, only to see Osgood badly outplay Essensa. Didn't stop him from trying to use Essensa in the playoffs (failed miserably, Osgood had to come in and try to save the ship).

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12-16-2012, 09:51 AM
  #55
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Osgood - 17 seasons, top ten three times, 2nd once (1995)

Does this mean Osgood peaked higher than Brodeur, but Brodeur had a better prime?
I didn't make any point about peak, prime or Osgood.

So what exactly are you trying to infer?

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12-16-2012, 11:49 AM
  #56
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I would think he's trying to say that everyone knows that Osgood didn't peak higher than Brodeur, so if the numbers say he did, to hell with the numbers.

In doing that, he's trying to ignore the fact that Osgood played 19 games. Isolated statistics from 1995 are nearly useless, right Mr. Zhamnov?

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Old
12-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Here's the top 20 based on "career span"

up to 1909: none
1910-1911: 1
1912-1924: 2
1925: 3
1926: 2
1927-1931: 3
1932-1944: 2
1944: 3
1945-1948: 4
1949-1950: 5
1951-1963: 4
1964: 5
1965-1966: 6
1967: 7
1968-1969: 8
1970: 9
1971: 7
1972-1975: 6
1976-1979: 5
1980-1981: 4
1982-1984: 3
1985-1988: 2
1989-1990: 3
1991-2003: 4
2004-2008: 3
2009-2011: 2
2012: 1

Also 11 of the 18 NA goalies played the majority of their careers before expansion which is interesting.

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12-19-2012, 12:50 AM
  #58
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Here's the top 24 based on "career span"

up to 1907: none
1908-1909: 1
1910-1911: 2
1912-1922: 3
1923-1924: 4
1925: 5
1926: 4
1927: 5
1928: 6
1929-1931: 5
1932-1937: 4
1938-1941: 3
1942-1944: 2
1944: 3
1945-1948: 4
1949-1950: 5
1951-1963: 4
1964: 5
1965-1966: 6
1967: 7
1968-1969: 8
1970: 9
1971: 8
1972-1975: 7
1976-1979: 6
1980-1981: 5
1982-1984: 4
1985-1988: 3
1989: 4
1990: 3
1991-2003: 4
2004-2008: 3
2009-2011: 2
2012: 1

5-6 goalies active in every year between 1927-1931, but no more than 4 in any year past 1981? Are we underrating modern goalies?


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Old
12-19-2012, 01:17 AM
  #59
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Even more noteworthy, there were 6 or more goalies from our top 24 active in every year between 1965 and 1979. There were 5 or fewer goalies from our top 24 active in every other year outside this time frame, other than a brief generational overlap in 1928 when there were exactly 6.

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12-19-2012, 03:25 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
5-6 goalies active in every year between 1927-1931, but no more than 4 in any year past 1981? Are we underrating modern goalies?
No, I don't think so. Grant Fuhr, John Vanbiesbrouck, and Curtis Joseph are going to change the complexion of that soon - and 2005-onward is explained by the potential for younger goalies like Henrik Lundqvist and Jonathan Quick to make their mark. There's a good chance based upon the aggregate list that Fuhr/VBK/Joseph/Thomas make the Top-40 (as they finished no worse than #37). And I think Luongo is going to look really good if he comes up for vote. That's probably five of the final 16 goaltenders coming from after 1981.

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12-19-2012, 10:23 AM
  #61
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... In Manhattan he became one of the league's best netminders until his retirement in 1941.

His best season was the 1939-40 campaign. He won his only Vezina Trophy as the league's top goalie with a 1.54 GAA and a league leading 8 shutouts. Then in the playoffs he was spectacular in leading the Rangers to their now-famous 1940 Stanley Cup championship. He was also named to the First All Star Team that year.

But even before that legendary season he was a hit. In fact, on March 18th, 1938, Kerr became the first hockey player to be pictured of Time Magazine. He was hockey's first cover boy. ...
http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.com...dave-kerr.html

I thought you guys really did an excellent job on the top 15. I don't know how deep you're going (60 or 70?), but I'll be interested to see if Dave "Davey" Kerr gets mentioned.

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12-19-2012, 11:02 AM
  #62
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Top 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
http://nyrangerslegends.blogspot.com...dave-kerr.html

I thought you guys really did an excellent job on the top 15. I don't know how deep you're going (60 or 70?), but I'll be interested to see if Dave "Davey" Kerr gets mentioned.
Top 40 Goaltenders.

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Old
01-03-2013, 05:28 AM
  #63
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Here's the top 28 based on "career span"

up to 1907: none
1908-1909: 1
1910-1911: 2
1912-1922: 3
1923-1924: 4
1925: 5
1926: 4
1927: 5
1928: 6
1929-1931: 5
1932-1937: 4
1938-1939: 3
1940-1941: 4
1942: 3
1943-1944: 4
1944: 5
1945-1948: 6
1949-1950: 7
1951: 6
1952-1953: 7
1954-1960: 6
1963: 5
1964: 6
1965-1966: 7
1967: 8
1968-1969: 9
1970: 10
1971: 9
1972-1973: 8
1974-1975: 7
1976-1979: 6
1980: 5
1981: 6
1982-1984: 5
1985-1988: 4
1989: 5
1990: 4
1991-2000: 5
2001-2003: 4
2004-2008: 3
2009-2011: 2
2012: 1

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:12 PM
  #64
Mike Farkas
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I know he can be a controversial figure in terms of his list making...but I thought he might get a kick out of it...I talked to Stan Fischler about the list we're making, I sent him the top 20, and he's on vacation so he only sent me a quick note back, and I'll follow up with him in the next week or so when he gets situated...

At a glance, he didn't care for Roy or Hasek being as high as they were (what can you do, he's not totally friendly to modern players sometimes). Said Broda should have been top-5. And said "Forget Jiri [Holecek]"

I'm sure it means little to most posters, but I was curious to see what someone who saw the massive amount of hockey that he saw thought at a glance...I'll post follow-ups, feel free to disregard...

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01-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I know he can be a controversial figure in terms of his list making...but I thought he might get a kick out of it...I talked to Stan Fischler about the list we're making, I sent him the top 20, and he's on vacation so he only sent me a quick note back, and I'll follow up with him in the next week or so when he gets situated...

At a glance, he didn't care for Roy or Hasek being as high as they were (what can you do, he's not totally friendly to modern players sometimes). Said Broda should have been top-5. And said "Forget Jiri [Holecek]"

I'm sure it means little to most posters, but I was curious to see what someone who saw the massive amount of hockey that he saw thought at a glance...I'll post follow-ups, feel free to disregard...
Seriously? I'd love to see his case for Broda in the top 5.

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01-07-2013, 03:29 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Seriously? I'd love to see his case for Broda in the top 5.
I believe in his Top-100 Players Ever book from 1988, he has Broda at #4 among goalies, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure his case for him, I'm not sure if he's sure what his case for him is after research is done.

But again, just like that Scotty Bowman list, it's just a guy rattling off names that stuck out to him more, more than it is a research project like we're doing...salt grains are on the house...

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01-07-2013, 03:46 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I believe in his Top-100 Players Ever book from 1988, he has Broda at #4 among goalies, if I'm not mistaken. Not sure his case for him, I'm not sure if he's sure what his case for him is after research is done.

But again, just like that Scotty Bowman list, it's just a guy rattling off names that stuck out to him more, more than it is a research project like we're doing...salt grains are on the house...
Sixth actually, behind Hall, Vezina, Plante, Sawchuk, and Durnan.

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01-07-2013, 03:56 PM
  #68
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Sixth actually, behind Hall, Vezina, Plante, Sawchuk, and Durnan.
Oops...good call! Boy that puts him quite a pickle...he didn't have Broda top-5 without Brodeur, Roy or Hasek even accounted for yet...

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01-07-2013, 05:19 PM
  #69
Dennis Bonvie
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Seriously? I'd love to see his case for Broda in the top 5.
I'm sure there won't be a lot of statistical evidence.

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01-09-2013, 01:52 AM
  #70
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Here's the top 32 based on "career span"

up to 1907: none
1908-1909: 1
1910-1911: 2
1912-1922: 4
1923-1924: 5
1925: 6
1926: 5
1927: 6
1928: 7
1929-1931: 5
1932-1937: 4
1938-1939: 3
1940-1941: 4
1942: 3
1943-1944: 4
1944: 5
1945-1948: 6
1949-1950: 7
1951: 6
1952-1953: 7
1954-1960: 6
1963: 5
1964: 6
1965-1966: 8
1967: 9
1968-1969: 10
1970: 11
1971: 10
1972-1973: 9
1974-1975: 8
1976-1978: 7
1979: 6
1980: 5
1981: 6
1982: 5
1983-1984: 6
1985-1988: 5
1989: 7
1990: 6
1991-2000: 7
2001-2003: 6
2004-2008: 4
2009: 3
2010-2011: 2
2012: 1

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01-09-2013, 05:00 AM
  #71
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I think it's reasonable that we start having more representation starting in the late 1960s, as that's when European hockey becomes worth considering. But why stop in the late 70s?

I think that once we got past Belfour, we starting forgetting how much more difficult it is for goalies to repeat as awards winners in a 30 team fully integrated league. My submitted list did the exact same thing that I'm questioning now, but going through it slowly like this makes me think that I underrated modern goalie on my original list myself.

Or is the overrepresentation of the late 60s and early 70s just an effect of expansion? Over-the-hill Original 6 goalies who would have retired otherwise hung around for quite some time after 1967, so maybe that is just skewing the numbers.

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01-09-2013, 10:20 AM
  #72
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If I could re-do this I would be much more forgiving of modern (post-1980) goalies following Belfour. both in my initial list and in my voting.

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01-09-2013, 10:58 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think that once we got past Belfour, we starting forgetting how much more difficult it is for goalies to repeat as awards winners in a 30 team fully integrated league. My submitted list did the exact same thing that I'm questioning now, but going through it slowly like this makes me think that I underrated modern goalie on my original list myself.
I think it is more of a case of us being spoiled by the consistency of our top two goaltenders - both having played in the 21-30 era - as well as the awareness and first-hand knowledge of the flaws of their contemporaries (something that is more easily exposed in a four-round era than a two or three-round era). Were the 10 spots of difference between Belfour and Fuhr too large of a gap? Probably. I have Belfour a little lower and Fuhr a little higher, myself.

But I think of it this way: In the 25 seasons from 1980 to 2004, with 21-30 teams fighting for the Stanley Cup, the only goaltenders to come out on top and not appear on our list are Vernon (1 Vezina nomination), Ranford, Richter (1 Vezina nomination), Osgood (1 Vezina nomination), and Khabibulin. After Liut, Vanbiesbrouck, and them, there's only so much we can squeeze out of the era.

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01-09-2013, 01:07 PM
  #74
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Or is the overrepresentation of the late 60s and early 70s just an effect of expansion? Over-the-hill Original 6 goalies who would have retired otherwise hung around for quite some time after 1967, so maybe that is just skewing the numbers.
I'm thinking that's what it is. The number of inductees is pretty consistent all the way from 1924-2008, fluctuating within a nice flat range of 5-7 per season. The only exceptions are within the decade of 1966-1975, and there's even a nice little bell curve up to 11 in 1970 and then back down again.

If we look at those seasons in detail, I think we can chalk it up to:
1) The sudden influx of roster spots in an imbalanced league, which extended some careers (Sawchuk, Plante)
2) The popularization of the platoon system, which extended some careers of older goalies (Bower, Plante, Sawchuk, Worsley)
3) The advent of air travel combined with the long schedule, which necessitated true backup goalies even aside from the platoon system
4) The fact that guys like Hall, Plante and Bower were simply athletic freaks who played a lot longer than anyone could have expected.

Put all those together and you get a few years where there were about half a dozen stars of the previous generation who stuck around past their normal due dates.

It's kind of interesting to speculate whether this causes us to overrate the goalies of the Expansion Era, or whether it's actually causing us to overrate the goalies of the Original Six who picked up quite a few accolades under favorable conditions. Do we think of Plante, Hall or Worsley quite the same way if they get bumped out of the league by Parent in 1968? Or is it Parent who has to toil in the minors instead of developing into a legend in his own right? Food for thought, but I think it helps explain why the numbers look the way they do.

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01-17-2013, 12:00 AM
  #75
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Here's the top 36 based on "career span"

up to 1904: none
1905-1907: 1
1908-1909: 2
1910-1911: 3
1912-1916: 5
1917-1922: 4
1923-1924: 5
1925: 6
1926: 5
1927: 6
1928: 7
1929-1931: 5
1932-1937: 4
1938-1939: 3
1940-1941: 4
1942: 3
1943-1944: 4
1944: 5
1945-1948: 6
1949-1950: 7
1951: 6
1952-1953: 7
1954-1960: 6
1963: 5
1964: 6
1965-1966: 8
1967: 10
1968-1969: 11
1970: 12
1971: 11
1972-1973: 10
1974-1975: 9
1976-1978: 8

1979: 7
1980: 6
1981: 8
1982: 7
1983-1984: 7
1985-1988: 6
1989: 8
1990: 7
1991-1997: 8
1998-2000: 9
2001-2002: 8

2003: 7
2004-2008: 5
2009: 4
2010-2011: 3
2012: 2

Was 1965-1978 the golden era of goaltending?


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