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Old
01-06-2013, 05:35 PM
  #726
skip2mybordeleau
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
That trade still confuses me, Foote made it clear that he wanted out and the only place he was willing to go was Colorado. Not sure how they managed to squeeze a 1st out of that deal.
almost squeezed 2. DUCHENE........

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Old
01-06-2013, 05:49 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
Maybe, and I am not saying the Avs would not have to give up a 1st or something else big prospect wise.....but I do not see them getting a roster player out of it due to cap space reasons, for both this year and the next. It is almost impossible without another big salary being moved by the Rangers.
Teams are allowed to spend up to $70M this season but next season the cap will drop to $64M. So the Rangers have around $7M to work with right now.

Not sure how the Wade Redden thing works though. You can't bury players in the minors anymore but the Rangers can't buy him out until the offseason. If he counts against the cap starting right now, then obviously they have much less than $7M to spend. Otherwise, they could re-sign MDZ and trade him in the offseason. Or they could trade him for a roster player and find another way to get under the cap in the offseason.

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01-06-2013, 06:06 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
What do people think about Michael Del Zotto? There has been some rumblings even before the cap fell that the Rangers may move him due to cap reasons and the build of the rest of their roster.... Might be worth swapping one of Barrie/Elliott + one of the Avs depth D men Zannon, O'Bryne, O'Brien, Hejda + ? for him...

Not sure I am sold on him long term, but at worst I think he is a Liles level talent. At the very least he would improve the PP and give the Avs a puck mover to work with the shutdown D men on the line.
Personally, I'm not a big fan. I think he's insulated playing on that D in New York and if he was playing with a bottom-10 defense, he'd be exposed much more.

I agree with your 2nd statement and I think that's about where I'd put him. Unfortunately, he's about the same as Liles (or maybe even worse) defensively. Since we do have Barrie/Elliott coming up, there's no need to make this kind of trade.

A healthy Marc Staal on the other hand...would be the kind of player I'd be targetting.

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Old
01-06-2013, 06:10 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Personally, I'm not a big fan. I think he's insulated playing on that D in New York and if he was playing with a bottom-10 defense, he'd be exposed much more.

I agree with your 2nd statement and I think that's about where I'd put him. Unfortunately, he's about the same as Liles (or maybe even worse) defensively. Since we do have Barrie/Elliott coming up, there's no need to make this kind of trade.

A healthy Marc Staal on the other hand...would be the kind of player I'd be targetting.
I'd love Staal on this team, I think he'd do wonders for EJ's development and for stabilizing the defense in general. Plus, if he becomes expendable we could trade him to Carolina for a king's ransom

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01-06-2013, 08:17 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma View Post
I'd love Staal on this team, I think he'd do wonders for EJ's development and for stabilizing the defense in general. Plus, if he becomes expendable we could trade him to Carolina for a king's ransom
So, is Staal one of those guys we collectively would be happy to trade Stastny for in a situation where either Duchene and O'Reilly step it up enough so we know they can be #1 and 2 down the middle and add a 3rd line center via UFA ORthe Avs sign another top line center via UFA?

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01-06-2013, 08:50 PM
  #731
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Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
So, is Staal one of those guys we collectively would be happy to trade Stastny for in a situation where either Duchene and O'Reilly step it up enough so we know they can be #1 and 2 down the middle and add a 3rd line center via UFA ORthe Avs sign another top line center via UFA?
Sure, but if you ask a Rags fan we'd be told to shove off, because their top 4 defenders > EJ.

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:32 AM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drury_Sakic View Post
So, is Staal one of those guys we collectively would be happy to trade Stastny for in a situation where either Duchene and O'Reilly step it up enough so we know they can be #1 and 2 down the middle and add a 3rd line center via UFA ORthe Avs sign another top line center via UFA?
My preference is and always has been to keep all 3 of our centers (I believe there is certainly a way to make it work) and to acquire a 'Staal' type of d-man without giving up one of our key guys. I am a firm believer that this center depth is HUGE and was the key to our first cup with Sakic, Forsberg and RICCI. [Obviously, our current guys not on the same level but there is a reason we didn't win another cup until Drury emerged]

Before you all say "IMPOSSIBLE"...just give it some thought first.

Wouldn't you all have said the same thing about acquiring a top flight goaltender when we traded picks to acquire Varly?

The same can apply here. We have TIME on our side as our team continues to get better as we search for these kinds of opportunities. Either a good UFA signing or smart trading can improve our team without swapping out a key piece. Patience is key here though. There is really no reason to rush to make a lateral move right now. Now if Stastny doesn't want to sign an extension or wants to be moved, that changes things dramatically but for now, that's not the case.

I'm very confident that there will be opportunities that present themselves when contending teams (and the Flames ) struggle to get down to $64.3M for 2013-14.

http://www.capgeek.com/payrolls/?charts_year=2013

(Vancouver has already $60M committed in payroll for NEXT year with only 13 guys under contract - in comparison, we have $47M committed to 19 players signed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Sure, but if you ask a Rags fan we'd be told to shove off, because their top 4 defenders > EJ.
Last summer, there were a good deal of Ranger fans whom would have been open to this possibility, it would seem at least 'fair' but I believe we should be patient and take advantage of our good positioning salary-cap wise when the time is right.

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:43 AM
  #733
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I'm indifferent to how we acquire the defender at this point Bender. But because I'm more of a defensive guy, I'd have to lean towards having a real top pairing > our current center depth.

Basically, Keith + Seabrook > Stastny + Duchene + O'Reilly

Not in terms of trade value, but in terms of actual on-ice benefit to a team, I think you could better get away with running a Nashville approach to playing (Weber/Suter + Fisher, Legwand, Gaustad, Wilson, Smith) over a Pittsburgh (Letang/Crap + Crosby, Malkin, Staal).

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm indifferent to how we acquire the defender at this point Bender. But because I'm more of a defensive guy, I'd have to lean towards having a real top pairing > our current center depth.

Basically, Keith + Seabrook > Stastny + Duchene + O'Reilly

Not in terms of trade value, but in terms of actual on-ice benefit to a team, I think you could better get away with running a Nashville approach to playing (Weber/Suter + Fisher, Legwand, Gaustad, Wilson, Smith) over a Pittsburgh (Letang/Crap + Crosby, Malkin, Staal).

You'd think the Predators would have made it further then the Penguins then if their approach to play is better. I think using the Penguins is a bad example. Look at Boston though they had the perfect combination of centre depth and defensemen.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:04 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by Gigantor The Goalie View Post
You'd think the Predators would have made it further then the Penguins then if their approach to play is better. I think using the Penguins is a bad example. Look at Boston though they had the perfect combination of centre depth and defensemen.
Nashville did make it further than Pittsburgh, when the Penguins reached the cup they did so using a much stronger defense overall than what they had last season and a hot Fleury. Not to mention an on-fire Hossa the year before.

But point noted, was just trying to say I would feel more comfortable behind an elite top pairing than elite center depth.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:22 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm indifferent to how we acquire the defender at this point Bender. But because I'm more of a defensive guy, I'd have to lean towards having a real top pairing > our current center depth.

Basically, Keith + Seabrook > Stastny + Duchene + O'Reilly

Not in terms of trade value, but in terms of actual on-ice benefit to a team, I think you could better get away with running a Nashville approach to playing (Weber/Suter + Fisher, Legwand, Gaustad, Wilson, Smith) over a Pittsburgh (Letang/Crap + Crosby, Malkin, Staal).
I'm not even saying I disagree with you...all I'm saying is that one doesn't have to come at the expense of the other especially when you have time and cap space on your side.

There should be ZERO movement of any of our 3 centers unless it's an absolute slam-dunk of a deal, for this shortened season, all things being equal. All three centers have issues and concerns (Stastny - CAN be better than he's shown | Duchene - needs to bounce back | O'Reilly - needs to prove he can duplicate last year's performance) and I personally believe that trading any of them would be selling LOW at this point.

Teams that make lateral moves like this, are always wondering why they don't seem to improve or get anywhere. Our defense isn't nearly as bad as many people here are making it seem. Is it championship worthy? lol, no not even close! But anyone thinking we're contending for the cup this year is going to be disappointed no matter what. The only way that is happening is if Varly or Giggy go into 'ultimate beast mode' like Halak did with the Habs 3-4 years ago.

We still have as big of an issue as our D in coaching anyways (if not more). We're a ways still from being cup contenders...we're a playoff bubble team for now.

- My expectations for this 48-game season is to try and squeeze into the playoffs
- My expectations for 2013-14 will be to make the playoffs and make some noise
- My expectations for 2014-15 will be to contend for the cup

That may or may not be realistic but that's my personal timeline for this team. I'm expecting some strong additions on the back-end for sure but I am certain our management is aware that this is an area of concern. I'm expecting a strong coaching staff to be in place by 2014-15, however, I am uncertain our management is aware that this is an area of concern.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:57 AM
  #737
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Sacco's contract made me pretty confident he'd be replaced come the appropriate contending window. He has another year and a half, I'd venture a guess he will be gone. What I'm uncertain on is management will be capable of selecting the right coach for the job at that point.

And again, I don't disagree with you. We've acquired EJ and Varly without moving significant assets from our depth down the middle. But if push came to shove, I'd simply be more comfortable acquiring EJ's partner than keeping all 3 of our centers, even if it was a gut-wrenching move trading one of them.

I really hope they explode during this short season. We need to see some major progress in our team's growth to justify the high expectations we have for their future.

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #738
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Not sure if she really knows but here you go...

@SBJLizMullen
Quote:
NHL agent Don Meehan says players NYR Michael Del Zotto, Montreal's P.K. Subban & Colorado's Ryan O'Reilly in talks about re-signing.
was retweeted by Spector's Hockey

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:34 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Varmalov View Post
Not sure if she really knows but here you go...

@SBJLizMullen

was retweeted by Spector's Hockey
Unless something has changed, I believe that Mark Guy is O'Reilly's agent...perhaps both Guy and Meehan work for same firm?

Either way, it's not as if Meehan would just make stuff up, unlike Walsh, Meehan is a respectable agent.

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:42 PM
  #740
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Garrioch tweeted earlier that teams can talk to agents, but obviously no one can sign, so it makes sense.

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Old
01-07-2013, 12:54 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Steve Varmalov View Post
Not sure if she really knows but here you go...

@SBJLizMullen

was retweeted by Spector's Hockey
sweet, get it done Sherman!

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:12 PM
  #742
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LOL, Panthers invite Svatos to camp.

Must recruit all the old Avalanche players!!!


Hope things go well for him.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:24 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Foppa Frossa View Post
LOL, Panthers invite Svatos to camp.

Must recruit all the old Avalanche players!!!


Hope things go well for him.
Also hoping Svatty gets a job.

He was one of my favourite Avs, too bad he couldn't stay healthy, he could've been one of the better snipers in the league.

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:48 PM
  #744
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I liked Svats as well.

He was soooo small. Huge heart. I still remember him leveling Getzlaf. Hope he makes the team.


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Old
01-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #745
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Hopefully Olver n Sgar don't get destroyed by injuries the way Svats did.

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:24 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Unless something has changed, I believe that Mark Guy is O'Reilly's agent...perhaps both Guy and Meehan work for same firm?

Either way, it's not as if Meehan would just make stuff up, unlike Walsh, Meehan is a respectable agent.
Guy works for Meehan's Newport Management firm.

What's wrong with Walsh?

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:31 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Guy works for Meehan's Newport Management firm.

What's wrong with Walsh?
Walsh is someone who should not have been allowed to talk about the lockout. Surprised the NHLPA didn't tell him to stuff it he was going so overly idiotic in his comments.

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:41 PM
  #748
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Mirtle:

"Teams will be able to retain salary/cap hit in a trade. This will be a very complex and carefully worded portion of new CBA I'm sure."

Also:

"Can 100% confirm the new CBA will include the cap benefit recapture formula. It will apply to existing deals "in excess of six years"

I assume that means teams that signed the player will be stuck with the cap hit of long term back diving deals even if they players retire. So if Luongo is traded and then retires at 38 years old, Vancouver will have a $5.3M cap hit for another five years.


Last edited by Freudian: 01-07-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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Old
01-07-2013, 03:45 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Guy works for Meehan's Newport Management firm.

What's wrong with Walsh?
I realized that my phrasing may have indicated that Walsh was someone who would "make stuff up" which he may or may not be, but that wasn't my intention.

My intention was to call out Walsh as being respectable, because I don't think he has an OUNCE of respect after the shenanigans he provided during the Lockout.

The man took every little thing the NHL did and literally attempted to make mountains of...well I would say "molehills" but a lot of the stuff were so minuscule that they wouldn't be "molehills".

For instance, when Bettman had suggested that he and Fehr step away and allow the Owners and Players to have direct dialogue, and what resulted were 3 days of intense negotiations, when the PA wanted to bring Fehr back in, the Owners said that it was a dealbreaker to the Owners/Players meeting dynamic only. What did Walsh do? Attempt to paint the NHL and Bettman as saying that bringing Fehr back in was a dealbreaker to the ENTIRE CBA Negotiation process. The man is just a smarmy rat in my opinion.

I understand which side he would undoubtedly be on, but there are PLENTY of NHL Agents on Twitter, and none of them did the kind of stuff that Walsh did, it is my hope that after the CBA is signed that he somehow is without a job representing anyone in the NHL.

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Old
01-07-2013, 04:18 PM
  #750
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I don't follow Walsh on twitter so I didn't know any of that. I just saw some of his tweets when other people retweeted him and I didn't think they were that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Mirtle:

"Teams will be able to retain salary/cap hit in a trade. This will be a very complex and carefully worded portion of new CBA I'm sure."
Burke finally gets what he has wanted for the last couple years.

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