Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
That would be absolutely terrible. I see Raymond and Kulemin as very similar in terms of their production, so essentially you're trading a top 5 goalie for a mediocre prospect and a 2nd round pick. Ouch.
Similar offensively maybe even tho Kulemin has had a better offensive peak. Kulie is bigger stronger and better defensively. Raymond is a bit faster but not by much.
No one realistically thinks Kulemin and Raymond have similar value.
I appreciate what you are saying, as I've also stated, if we could get him for a cost that doesn't mortgage the future, I'm fine with it...
That means no Gardiner, Reilly, 1st round picks, Lupul.
It means I'm not thrilled if Kadri or Kulemin are involved.
It means I'm ok with MacArthur, Franson, 2nd round, Blacker, Colborne type players...
Bozak I'm kind of on the fence with, because we need him this year.. unless we can find another option, or Connolly remembers how to play.
I'd like Luongo, but not at any cost, and frankly we can't afford an expensive purchase right now.
It all starts in net, Fogelhund. You can have all the futures you want but if your weak in goal in won't amount to squat... And T.O. is weak in goal. There is no reason to sugar coat it. They are. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Toronto isn't going to have a future of any substance until they address their biggest need. Realistically speaking, Luongo probably has 5 season of top flight goaltending left in him. That is a long time and many things can change between now and then.
I have mentioned a few times how Mike Gillis has acted like Scott Howson did during the Rick Nash trade talks, where both mentioned they would get an A+ package of players, prospects, and picks. However Howson didn't get the best value in return despite saying he wouldn't trade Nash for anything less and I think the same thing will happen to Mike Gillis. Anyway it turns out that Adam Proteau thinks the same thing as I did.
The main point of that article was how Howson said he would get a great package in return which he didn't and the same thing will happen to Gillis.
You obviously don't get the point he was trying to make. Howson had to trade him for a smaller package than what he was expecting because Nash wanted to be traded. This isn't the case with Luongo since Luongo is fine with staying in Vancouver.
Ive been suggesting Connolly > Bozak for awhile now.
More expendable from the leafs, and a "buy low" candidate for Van
(Short term Kes replacement, 3C, 2nd PP C, 1 year deal).
I don't see a trade not involving Kadri (most valuable asset I think would be deemed expendable).
I am pulling for a Kadri, Connolly, Kulemin return.
Connolly and Lombardi both could fill that void. and could be had for cheap.
Connolly or Lombardi
for
Conditional 2nd - 3rd if they don't play 50 games.
It all starts in net, Fogelhund. You can have all the futures you want but if your weak in goal in won't amount to squat... And T.O. is weak in goal. There is no reason to sugar coat it. They are. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think Toronto isn't going to have a future of any substance until they address their biggest need. Realistically speaking, Luongo probably has 5 season of top flight goaltending left in him. That is a long time and many things can change between now and then.
You seem to know what toronto should be doing, what type of package do you think they need to put together to get Luongo?
You obviously don't get the point he was trying to make. Howson had to trade him for a smaller package than what he was expecting because Nash wanted to be traded. This isn't the case with Luongo since Luongo is fine with staying in Vancouver.
Scott Howson said to the media he won't trade Nash for anything less then an A+ package and that never happened based on the market. Mike Gillis has said the same things to the media and I think the same thing will happen when Luongo gets traded.
Because were one [if not theONLY] team willing to "roll the dice" on this one!
I am sure Florida also is of the opinion that they would want get him for for less than the leafs would offer
Yes, but Florida is not quite as pathetic as Toronto, they won their division last year and the Leafs are perennial bottom feeders - that's the difference.
With that said, if TB had made a trade with Vancouver for a goalie, they certainly would've won their division instead of missing the playoffs.
Similar offensively maybe even tho Kulemin has had a better offensive peak. Kulie is bigger stronger and better defensively. Raymond is a bit faster but not by much.
No one realistically thinks Kulemin and Raymond have similar value.
Things can change in a shortened season. If Raymond puts up a 50 point pace again, people could realistically argue that Raymond is more valuable. People forget that Raymond broke his back and is still getting back to the player he was a few seasons ago. I wouldn't be surprised with the extra amount of time to recover this off season that he could be 100% healthy.
Similar offensively maybe even tho Kulemin has had a better offensive peak. Kulie is bigger stronger and better defensively. Raymond is a bit faster but not by much.
No one realistically thinks Kulemin and Raymond have similar value.
I think Raymond and Kulemin are about even defensively. Kulemin is more physical, Raymond is faster. Kulemin has more value because he's signed an extra season, but it's still not a very significant difference to our roster, which is why if we're getting a tweener as a roster player I'd want the futures part to be greater.
The main point of that article was how Howson said he would get a great package in return which he didn't and the same thing will happen to Gillis.
Right! And I'm saying that the obvious difference is that Nash went to the media and asked for a trade, while Luongo would be fine spending the year (or more) in Vancouver. Obviously Howsen had to make the best deal possible - Gillis wont have to do that.
You obviously don't get the point he was trying to make. Howson had to trade him for a smaller package than what he was expecting because Nash wanted to be traded. This isn't the case with Luongo since Luongo is fine with staying in Vancouver.
Thanks! I guess I should have read further before replying.
Things can change in a shortened season. If Raymond puts up a 50 point pace again, people could realistically argue that Raymond is more valuable. People forget that Raymond broke his back and is still getting back to the player he was a few seasons ago. I wouldn't be surprised with the extra amount of time to recover this off season that he could be 100% healthy.
And Kule could go back to a 30 goal scorer and their value wouldnt even be close.
If the trade proposal by real life GM's is similar to what is imagined here, it would be smart for Canucks to hold Luongo until trade deadline. I heard this concept mentioned on TSN's game on as well. Goalie controversy or not, both are still very good starters and it will not hurt Vancouver in net any given night. May as well wait for injuries, slow starts, disappointing finishes and whatever else to take place over the next couple of months, and we all know there will be examples of this there are every year. Waiting it out will surely be worth the extra value, because trade options on these board do not offer that much. And if Luongo plays great, why not entertain a possibility for trading Schneider? Really it does not seem out of the question. The only sure thing right now is that Vancouver for this season is just fine in regards for Cap. They have great goaltending, very good defence, and a solid group of veteran forwards. I say forget it Vancouver can take its chances with their current lineup to start the season
Similar offensively maybe even tho Kulemin has had a better offensive peak. Kulie is bigger stronger and better defensively. Raymond is a bit faster but not by much.
No one realistically thinks Kulemin and Raymond have similar value.
Actually Raymond is better defensively and is usually a staple on our PK (last year he was eased back into the lineup after suffering a broke back). They're very similar players with Kulemin being more physical and Raymond being faster.
__________________
I told ya so. I was right all along!
I think Raymond and Kulemin are about even defensively. Kulemin is more physical, Raymond is faster. Kulemin has more value because he's signed an extra season, but it's still not a very significant difference to our roster, which is why if we're getting a tweener as a roster player I'd want the futures part to be greater.
I'd take Kulemin over Raymond for the Canucks since I think he'd be a better fit on the third line. I don't trust either of their offensive games at this point to be a top 6 player.
Raymond's still a decent player though, so the extra value Kulemin is worth isn't too significant as you said.
You seem to know what toronto should be doing, what type of package do you think they need to put together to get Luongo?
To be perfectly honest with you I actually don't see a lot of pieces that Vancouver would be interested in and the ones they would be you fans seem to want to hang onto like they are the next coming of Bobby Orr or Gordie Howe. At times I don't know why I'm trying so hard for a T.O. deal because they really aren't the best partner for Van. I'm just sick of T.O. being a mediocre hockey team year in and year out. It is time for Toronto to rejoin the upper end of the league and the best way to do it is to start in goal.
It was rumored but not sure if thats confirmed. If true that would help for sure but how much would the Canucks be willing to absorb of his salary when they already are gonna get hit with his retirement cap hit later too?
Still I think I made an offer similar to what you believed in the latter of your 2 options...top 9 forward (Upshall) + good prospect (Shore) + pick (1st rounder). And I included Clemmensen (partially due to roster restrictions and to give the Nucks a solid backup goalie who can play 30 games/season) with the inclusion of Raymond (which fills a hole for this yr that was filled by Upshall). That deal has the Panthers adding $2M in actual salary without the inclusion of Raymond so that could work for them. There's decent value there I think for the Canucks but may not be the exact needs for them right now that works so who knows if they would be willing to do that.
That isn't a bad offer, if it were Petrovic instead of Shore I would be fine with it. I just don't see Shore as having as much potential as Kadri/Petrovic, my main target prospects from Toronto/Florida.
I think Shore ends up as a very good third liner, but I think with Gaunce in the system he isn't as valuable to us. We don't have anyone in our system like Petrovic(big, shutdown defenseman with mean streak) or Kadri(highly skilled dangler), which is why I think they'd be better fits for us.
And Kule could go back to a 30 goal scorer and their value wouldnt even be close.
Sure but the likely-hood of this happening is smaller than Raymond reaching 50 points. Kulemin would have to keep up an abnormally high shooting percentage for him to reach that number.
