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Luongo: Light at the end of the tunnel?

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01-07-2013, 03:46 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Scott Howson said to the media he won't trade Nash for anything less then an A+ package and that never happened based on the market. Mike Gillis has said the same things to the media and I think the same thing will happen when Luongo gets traded.
Remember that Gillis asked for Gardiner, Bozak, 5 OVA and Frattin.

Howsen wound up with Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon and a 1st.
Thats probably the equivalent to
- Kulemin, Bozak, Kadri, Finn (or Ashton/Frattin/Biggs kinda prospect).

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01-07-2013, 03:47 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think Raymond and Kulemin are about even defensively. Kulemin is more physical, Raymond is faster. Kulemin has more value because he's signed an extra season, but it's still not a very significant difference to our roster, which is why if we're getting a tweener as a roster player I'd want the futures part to be greater.
I dont agree about who is the superior defensive player but it is a very hard argument to settle as defensive play is something that is very hard to back up with stats.

Even if they had similar defensive play I still think most teams would prefer Kule's size and physicality over Raymonds speed. Its not like Kulie is slow either, he isnt Raymond fast but he is still a pretty dam fast skater. He has won our teams fastest skater comp several years in a row now.

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01-07-2013, 03:47 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
bozak + kadri?, I would do that.
Why?? That's crap value for a top 5 goalie.

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01-07-2013, 03:47 PM
  #254
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You obviously don't get the point he was trying to make. Howson had to trade him for a smaller package than what he was expecting because Nash wanted to be traded. This isn't the case with Luongo since Luongo is fine with staying in Vancouver.
No he's not lol. He wants out, he's not going to accept sitting on the bench 40 games out of the year come on. Why do you think he's asked out?

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01-07-2013, 03:48 PM
  #255
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If the trade proposal by real life GM's is similar to what is imagined here, it would be smart for Canucks to hold Luongo until trade deadline. I heard this concept mentioned on TSN's game on as well. Goalie controversy or not, both are still very good starters and it will not hurt Vancouver in net any given night. May as well wait for injuries, slow starts, disappointing finishes and whatever else to take place over the next couple of months, and we all know there will be examples of this there are every year. Waiting it out will surely be worth the extra value, because trade options on these board do not offer that much. And if Luongo plays great, why not entertain a possibility for trading Schneider? Really it does not seem out of the question. The only sure thing right now is that Vancouver for this season is just fine in regards for Cap. They have great goaltending, very good defence, and a solid group of veteran forwards. I say forget it Vancouver can take its chances with their current lineup to start the season
I agree with this. Theres a higher chance that Luongo will come to camp motivated to win back his job and thereby increase his value. Besides, they have Schneider locked up for longer than this season so there isn't a risk of him leaving.

We all know Luongo plays his best when he has a fire up his ass. I'd bet that he comes back with a vengeance this season.

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01-07-2013, 03:48 PM
  #256
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Why?? That's crap value for a top 5 goalie.
2nd line center + top prospect for a goalie who is signed for a decade is good value.

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01-07-2013, 03:49 PM
  #257
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Sure but the likely-hood of this happening is smaller than Raymond reaching 50 points. Kulemin would have to keep up an abnormally high shooting percentage for him to reach that number.
People always compare the 2 but the difference is so marginal its really irrelevant.

Its like comparing pulp vs pulp-free orange juice.

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01-07-2013, 03:49 PM
  #258
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How does this effect luongo?

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Under the new CBA, teams can retain salary/cap hit in a trade. Conditions to follow. #NHL
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01-07-2013, 03:50 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Why?? That's crap value for a top 5 goalie.
Then keep your top 5 goalie and be happy. We don't want him as bad as you guys want to deal him.

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01-07-2013, 03:50 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Actually Raymond is better defensively and is usually a staple on our PK (last year he was eased back into the lineup after suffering a broke back). They're very similar players with Kulemin being more physical and Raymond being faster.
And I disagree about who is the superior defensive player. As I think most others would if you asked neutral fans.

And Kulie might not be as fast as Raymond but he is still an extremely fast skater. Raymond isnt anywhere close to Kulemin in size or strength.

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01-07-2013, 03:50 PM
  #261
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How does this effect luongo?

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Depends who acquires him.

Fla may want Van to hold some salary

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01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #262
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2nd line center + top prospect for a goalie who is signed for a decade is good value.
Bozak is not a 2nd line centre on a contender, and Kadri is not Toronto's top prospect.

So, yeah...

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01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #263
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No he's not lol. He wants out. He's not going to accept sitting on the bench 40 games out of the year come on.
What an ignorant post. Who is to say he will only play 40 games in a shortened season? This is a vezina calibre goalie we're talking about here. If you don't think he has the ability to win back his job then you're sadly mistaken.

I think people forget how badly some players want to play for a Stanley Cup contending team. Smart players understand that winning a cup is a once in a lifetime opportunity and to have their names etched on the cup means everything to them.

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01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #264
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Salary, not cap is what im refering to.

A team like FLA has financial constraints.

If fla ownership can pay 3 million a year for a star player who has a 5.3 cap hit it makes it a lot more palatable for them
I think if you take part of the salary you also take the cap hit with it. So if the canucks pay 3m of Lu's salary they get 3m of his capo hit too.

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01-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #265
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Bozak is not a 2nd line centre on a contender, and Kadri is not Toronto's top prospect.

So, yeah...
I said a "top" prospect, not toronto's top prospect.

Kadri/rielly/gardiner are all top guys.

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01-07-2013, 03:52 PM
  #266
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I said a "top" prospect, not toronto's top prospect.

Kadri/rielly/gardiner are all top guys.
One of these names is not like the others.

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01-07-2013, 03:53 PM
  #267
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People always compare the 2 but the difference is so marginal its really irrelevant.

Its like comparing pulp vs pulp-free orange juice.
You're right and its probably not even worth discussing but I'm just tired of people hating on Raymond more than they need to. I personally don't like Raymond and I never have but he is worth a lot more than what people give him credit for.

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01-07-2013, 03:53 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
One of these names is not like the others.
Honest question, have you watched kadri play?.

This guy has top end talent, he just needs to smartin up.

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01-07-2013, 03:53 PM
  #269
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How does this effect luongo?

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Unless the Canucks want to keep some of Lu's cap hit going forward not much imo.

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01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
  #270
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Then keep your top 5 goalie and be happy. We don't want him as bad as you guys want to deal him.
Ok that sounds fair. Not sure if you read my bit on the previous page. Canucks roster is very good, no need to be desperate. Toronto looks ready to roll too, just like you are saying here. Wish you guys best of luck 2013 SCF Vancouver vs. Toronto

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01-07-2013, 03:54 PM
  #271
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Honest question, have you watched kadri play?.

This guy has top end talent, he just needs to smartin up.
Yes, he's a good prospect. But not a blue chipper by any means. Do you really think he's interchangeable with Rielly in terms of value?

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01-07-2013, 03:55 PM
  #272
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One of these names is not like the others.
one plays Offense?

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01-07-2013, 03:55 PM
  #273
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You're right and its probably not even worth discussing but I'm just tired of people hating on Raymond more than they need to. I personally don't like Raymond and I never have but he is worth a lot more than what people give him credit for.
The people who hate on him are the ones who think you have to be a 60 point player to be a top 6 guy, or Chris Neil to be a bottom 6 guy.

Guys an effective, versatile utility player.

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01-07-2013, 03:56 PM
  #274
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We don't need to sell, and we have the only #1 goalie on the market, so...

Personally, I think that it will ultimately be a three way deal, and those are almost impossible to predict. Maybe something like:

Van

Gagner
Franson
Khabibulin

Tor

Raymond
Luongo

Edmonton

McArthur
Reimer
Ballard
The best, most realistic, and very common way of doing three way deals is to simply take draft picks in return and then move them on to one of the other 28 teams for the asset you really need. It is the only rational currency when there is no 'fit' between teams. It makes more sense than having Burke give up a player like Finn who he no doubt values more than Gillis. Much better to take a second rounder than a player that was just picked in the last draft in the second round.

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01-07-2013, 03:56 PM
  #275
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[QUOTE=kack zassian;57248395]
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I guess we agree to disagree.

You think Luongo will play for a million dollars a year and be a minor leaguer
I think he would retire.
That doesnt make him any more appealing to teams. If you're right, sounds like the Nucks are going to get a cap hit if he retires early?

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