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Trading Schneider instead of Luongo?

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:00 PM
  #1
avsfan89
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Trading Schneider instead of Luongo?

Surely I can't be alone in thinking that maybe VAN should hold onto Lou instead. Schneider hasn't been stellar during the lockout but it hasn't influenced my thinking.

I'm thinking his value would be higher than Lou's in a trade. Trade him for max value and keep Lou (he's still a great goalie). You can still get maybe 4-5 years out of him while you can draft/sign/develop other young goalies during that time. That way you possibly have a good young 22-23 year old goalie ready to take on the helms by the time Lou is truly done.

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01-07-2013, 07:01 PM
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So. Many. Vancouver. Proposals

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01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
Surely I can't be alone in thinking that maybe VAN should hold onto Lou instead. Schneider hasn't been stellar during the lockout but it hasn't influenced my thinking.

I'm thinking his value would be higher than Lou's in a trade. Trade him for max value and keep Lou (he's still a great goalie). You can still get maybe 4-5 years out of him while you can draft/sign/develop other young goalies during that time. That way you possibly have a good young 22-23 year old goalie ready to take on the helms by the time Lou is truly done.
PIT offers MAF so VAN can have monopoly on overpaid, enigmatic goaltenders. 2 wrongs = right.

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01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
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He hasn't proven enough to get the return that I would want for him

Luongo will most likely get traded

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01-07-2013, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
Surely I can't be alone in thinking that maybe VAN should hold onto Lou instead. Schneider hasn't been stellar during the lockout but it hasn't influenced my thinking.

I'm thinking his value would be higher than Lou's in a trade. Trade him for max value and keep Lou (he's still a great goalie). You can still get maybe 4-5 years out of him while you can draft/sign/develop other young goalies during that time. That way you possibly have a good young 22-23 year old goalie ready to take on the helms by the time Lou is truly done.
The worst possible outcome is trading lou for crap players, canucks window closing and schneider leaving as a UFA in less than three years. If there is a huge return available for schneider and not much for Lou gillis would not be doing his job well to hold onto schneider.

Many people have posted this before you. They give up under the barrage of fanboy comments from lou haters and equally annoying statements from fans of other teams that schneider has little value because he is unproven. You will see the forthcoming replies to your post falling into those three categories.

Sorry for the foreshadow. This is not a new topic even though it's worthwhile.

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01-07-2013, 07:10 PM
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Plus Schneider doesn't have a Shapy award.

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01-07-2013, 07:14 PM
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Lundface
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Schneider is a back up goalie

Luongo got beaten out by a back up goalie

Because of it, they both have no value. Vancouver simply cannot win.

If they are smart they will stick with their Jennings winning back-up/washed-up combo

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01-07-2013, 07:19 PM
  #8
avsfan89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
The worst possible outcome is trading lou for crap players, canucks window closing and schneider leaving as a UFA in less than three years. If there is a huge return available for schneider and not much for Lou gillis would not be doing his job well to hold onto schneider.

Many people have posted this before you. They give up under the barrage of fanboy comments from lou haters and equally annoying statements from fans of other teams that schneider has little value because he is unproven. You will see the forthcoming replies to your post falling into those three categories.

Sorry for the foreshadow. This is not a new topic even though it's worthwhile.
true, I do think that this isn't the first time it's been brought up but laziness has lead to me posting about it instead of sorting through the threads lol its all good man

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01-07-2013, 07:23 PM
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As I see it:

1) If Gillis and the VAN organization think they have an identical chance to win with both either guy - they'll both be shopped to see who gets the better return.
2) If Gillis thinks that the Canucks are signficantly better with one guy than the other - the lesser guy will get moved. Gillis isn't going to downgrade in net because one guy has a higher trade value - because the goalie is so important.
3) If there's not a deal that makes the Canucks a better team immediately - he'll hold onto both. I don't see VAN "desperate" to move RL like the Jackets were with Nash.

I'm not a fan of VAN - but I think it's pretty obvious they're in "win now" mode. IMO, they're not going to move RL just to free up the cap space. They need RL (or Schneider) to return players that will help the Canucks by contributing immediately. If those type of assets aren't available - I would expect they'd hold onto both guys, especially with a shortened season.

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01-07-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
As I see it:

1) If Gillis and the VAN organization think they have an identical chance to win with both either guy - they'll both be shopped to see who gets the better return.
2) If Gillis thinks that the Canucks are signficantly better with one guy than the other - the lesser guy will get moved. Gillis isn't going to downgrade in net because one guy has a higher trade value - because the goalie is so important.
3) If there's not a deal that makes the Canucks a better team immediately - he'll hold onto both. I don't see VAN "desperate" to move RL like the Jackets were with Nash.

I'm not a fan of VAN - but I think it's pretty obvious they're in "win now" mode. IMO, they're not going to move RL just to free up the cap space. They need RL (or Schneider) to return players that will help the Canucks by contributing immediately. If those type of assets aren't available - I would expect they'd hold onto both guys, especially with a shortened season.
Thanks for the post. One more thing I think that everyone needs to keep in perspective is that the whole situation really snow balled in a huge way. I guess that's what happens when you name a new starting goaltender though. People forget Schneider got a game against Chicago the year before. When Schneider got a start against the Kings it really wasn't any different conceptually.

Because it was the end of the Canucks season and for the first time ever Luongo wasn't on the ice after getting bounced from the post season Luongo made some comments.

But really I think the difference between these two players is still unknown. I was certain that Gillis was going to trade Schneider last summer and simply managed his trade value upward. At some point late in the summer I changed my mind, but who knows the story isn't over yet.

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01-07-2013, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
As I see it:

1) If Gillis and the VAN organization think they have an identical chance to win with both either guy - they'll both be shopped to see who gets the better return.
2) If Gillis thinks that the Canucks are signficantly better with one guy than the other - the lesser guy will get moved. Gillis isn't going to downgrade in net because one guy has a higher trade value - because the goalie is so important.
3) If there's not a deal that makes the Canucks a better team immediately - he'll hold onto both. I don't see VAN "desperate" to move RL like the Jackets were with Nash.

I'm not a fan of VAN - but I think it's pretty obvious they're in "win now" mode. IMO, they're not going to move RL just to free up the cap space. They need RL (or Schneider) to return players that will help the Canucks by contributing immediately. If those type of assets aren't available - I would expect they'd hold onto both guys, especially with a shortened season.
I agree with everything here except for one detail. I do think that vancouver will consider moving RL or Schneider if it means that what little return they may get (only a hypothetical) would be better than say making it to next year and having to buy out contracts with no return just to either retain RL and/or Schneider. Its better to get value for one of them then to pay to watch them leave.

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01-07-2013, 07:44 PM
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In order for this to happen, somebody has to see him a top 3 goalie for the next 10 years and make an offer according to that. Top six gamebreaker must be coming back. Let's say Winnipeg offers Evander Kane. Can't think of any other semi-realistic ones off the top of my head. No quality for quantity.

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01-07-2013, 07:50 PM
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Well, Vancouver isnt getting any younger! The Sedin and Burrows are getting up there and have maybe seen their best days and we haven't seen their replacements come through our system so, yes, we are in a win now mode.

1) Trading Luongo for scraps gives Vancouver the same quality of goaltending (assuming Schneider can play up to Luongo's level), but does not provide anything to the system that cant be had via waiver wire or free agency. Schneider's cap hit will be a mere $1.3m less than Luongo, and although younger,will certainly be higher thanLuongo when Schneider's new contract comes due - Assuming he stays in Vancouver. Therefore Vancouver will surely be in a decline within a year or two.

2) Trading Schneider will give Vancouver a better return - even if it's just one top tier younger player and a draft pick, we are still way ahead. We would have Luongo locked up till he retires, and at the same time he would be grooming Lack (who if we keep Schneider will almost certainly move on). In 3-4 years, when the Sedins are roll players, we'll need someone to step forward and our best chip to aquire that player is Schneider.

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01-07-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManoWarrior View Post
In order for this to happen, somebody has to see him a top 3 goalie for the next 10 years and make an offer according to that. Top six gamebreaker must be coming back. Let's say Winnipeg offers Evander Kane. Can't think of any other semi-realistic ones off the top of my head. No quality for quantity.
Except Winnipeg is not going to want both Luongo and Pavelec. There is no way they'd be able to replace Kane by trading Pavelec. Makes no sense from the JETS perspective.

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01-07-2013, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Except Winnipeg is not going to want both Luongo and Pavelec. There is no way they'd be able to replace Kane by trading Pavelec. Makes no sense from the JETS perspective.
Pretty sure he was talking about former Manitoba Moose Schneider & not Lu.

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01-07-2013, 08:03 PM
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Schneider to Philly

Bryzgalov to Toronto

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01-07-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Schneider is a back up goalie

Luongo got beaten out by a back up goalie

Because of it, they both have no value. Vancouver simply cannot win.

If they are smart they will stick with their Jennings winning back-up/washed-up combo
Since I hate Vancouver so much, thanks for a good laugh. Now if only that last bit was true.

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01-07-2013, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Hal 9000 View Post
Well, Vancouver isnt getting any younger! The Sedin and Burrows are getting up there and have maybe seen their best days and we haven't seen their replacements come through our system so, yes, we are in a win now mode.

1) Trading Luongo for scraps gives Vancouver the same quality of goaltending (assuming Schneider can play up to Luongo's level), but does not provide anything to the system that cant be had via waiver wire or free agency. Schneider's cap hit will be a mere $1.3m less than Luongo, and although younger,will certainly be higher thanLuongo when Schneider's new contract comes due - Assuming he stays in Vancouver. Therefore Vancouver will surely be in a decline within a year or two.

2) Trading Schneider will give Vancouver a better return - even if it's just one top tier younger player and a draft pick, we are still way ahead. We would have Luongo locked up till he retires, and at the same time he would be grooming Lack (who if we keep Schneider will almost certainly move on). In 3-4 years, when the Sedins are roll players, we'll need someone to step forward and our best chip to aquire that player is Schneider.
This would have been the right move at last season's trade deadline. Unfortunately for the Canucks, the well is poisoned now.

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01-07-2013, 10:03 PM
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This would have been the right move at last season's trade deadline. Unfortunately for the Canucks, the well is poisoned now.
I know I'm in the minority here, but I really dont see that the well has been poisoned. I think the Toronto media has been driving this bus since day 1. I think they would love to have Lu in TO and I believe they are doing their best to help that happen.

I wont bet that Lu doesn't move, but I dont think either he or Gillis have hit the point of no return. If the well is poisoned, then I would expect Luongo to just stay in Florida and tell Gillis to call when he has a deal ready (and really, who would blame him), but that is not happening. Lu says he is coming back and preparing just like every other year. We've seen contract negotiations get way nasty and in the end, they're all smiles and handshakes - it's all part of the dance.

For all we know, Gillis was getting offers for both goalies (and reports say he was), but teams weren't offering much for an RFA Schneider - now he is signed. We just don't know, but I'm not counting out the possibility of a big deal around Schneider.

If we lose Luongo (who has guaranteed to end his career here) for nothing, waive him or buy him out, and Schneider walks in 2 1/2 years as an UFA, then where we? I would insist on a resignation from both Gillis and Veenyo.

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01-08-2013, 10:28 AM
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The Canucks should now open the doors on trading Schneider. They must facilitate a bidding war between teams vying for Schneider and the one or two teams that want Luongo. Toronto may desperately need and want Luongo but if they are the only one bidding, we are not going to get the return we are looking for. Open up the Schneider market to facilitate the best possible offer for Lou and decide between the two. Gillis must do this.

Edmonton (Both)
Tampa (S)
New Jersey (S)
Chicago (Both)
San Jose (S)
Toronto (Both)
Winnipeg (S)
NYI (S)
Florida (Lou)

Time to open it up. There is no doubt about this.

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01-08-2013, 11:01 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by ManoWarrior View Post
In order for this to happen, somebody has to see him a top 3 goalie for the next 10 years and make an offer according to that. Top six gamebreaker must be coming back. Let's say Winnipeg offers Evander Kane. Can't think of any other semi-realistic ones off the top of my head. No quality for quantity.
No offense - but you are absolutely insane if you expect to get a player like Evander Kane back for Roberto Luongo. Goaltenders have NEVER had that kind of value, especially when the Canucks are movitivated to deal not wanting to deal. I agree they need a contributor back for RL if he's moved, but expecting the equivelant of a 21 YO 30 goal scoring power forward is just ludicrious IMO.


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Originally Posted by Sharks4Life View Post
I agree with everything here except for one detail. I do think that vancouver will consider moving RL or Schneider if it means that what little return they may get (only a hypothetical) would be better than say making it to next year and having to buy out contracts with no return just to either retain RL and/or Schneider. Its better to get value for one of them then to pay to watch them leave.
My thought though is that the Canucks are a serious contender, and they are in the "prime" of their window to win a Cup. Their team definitely has some needs, and IMO, RL/CS is the best asset they've got to fill those needs. If they had a loaded prospect pipeline and they've got a other assets to trade to fill those holes (or potential UFA's to sign with the additional cap space), I'd be more willing to agree with your conclussion that getting a "below market" return for RL at this point could potentially improve the Canucks chance to win the Cup.

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01-08-2013, 11:05 AM
  #22
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Schneider to Philly

Bryzgalov to Toronto

At least there would be no bear in woods for Bryz to be afraid of in TO.

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01-08-2013, 11:08 AM
  #23
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Schneider is very clearly Vancouver's guy. People around here can spout off about Luongo all they want, they'll find a trade when the time is right and the haters will dissapear into the woodwork again.

I don't know what management is thinking, but I would be completley shocked if Cory Schneider is not the starting goalie in Vancouver this year and going forward.

And I hope we're not judging Schneider on 8 games on one of the worst teams in Europe either...

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01-08-2013, 11:33 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundface View Post
Schneider is a back up goalie

Luongo got beaten out by a back up goalie

Because of it, they both have no value. Vancouver simply cannot win.

If they are smart they will stick with their Jennings winning back-up/washed-up combo
I guess that must mean that Ken Dryden and Bernie Parent stink because they couldn't make the Bruins when they had Gerry Cheevers in net. That is some solid logic right there

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01-08-2013, 11:44 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
The Canucks should now open the doors on trading Schneider. They must facilitate a bidding war between teams vying for Schneider and the one or two teams that want Luongo. Toronto may desperately need and want Luongo but if they are the only one bidding, we are not going to get the return we are looking for. Open up the Schneider market to facilitate the best possible offer for Lou and decide between the two. Gillis must do this.

Edmonton (Both)
Tampa (S)
New Jersey (S)
Chicago (Both)
San Jose (S)
Toronto (Both)
Winnipeg (S)
NYI (S)
Florida (Lou)

Time to open it up. There is no doubt about this.
As much as I would love for it to happen I don't see Cory going to New Jersey. I don't see why he would go to the Peg or San Jose as they both have quality starting goaltenders.

As for Lu I think the only real options for him are Florida (as he has real estate there and has said Florida is his first choice) and Toronto (as he said he would waive for them and has the potential to make a lot of marketing dollars.) Chicago should be in the discussion but only as a dark horse IMO. I can't say I feel the same way for Edmonton.

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