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Luongo: Light at the end of the tunnel?

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01-07-2013, 07:28 PM
  #401
The Saurus
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Originally Posted by Deuce Awesome View Post
Well if Brian Lawton said it I guess it has to be taken for fact. Luongo will be bought out, Nucks get nothing, and a parade will be had in Lawton's name.
Where did you come to those ridiculous conclusions based on my post? Lawton's opinion is that Roberto will be bought out. It's an opinion, not a fact, and Lawton isn't exactly on an island. I'm sure he's discussed Roberto's situation with others around the hockey world.

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01-07-2013, 07:30 PM
  #402
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That is just absurd. Do you even believe half the stuff you post?
I suppose I should as much stock into MikeK's posts as Brian Lawton's opinions.

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01-07-2013, 07:32 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Where did you come to those ridiculous conclusions based on my post? Lawton's opinion is that Roberto will be bought out. It's an opinion, not a fact, and Lawton isn't exactly on an island. I'm sure he's discussed Roberto's situation with others around the hockey world.
I'm sure he has... all the rest of the cast aways who can't find any meaningful work in th NHL that involves anything to do with a team. I'm sure him and Melrose have had lengthy discussions on the mater.

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01-07-2013, 07:36 PM
  #404
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Too much value going to Vancouver, although Connolly not so much, but Nikolai Kulemin fits right in with Randy Carlyle's style of play. Regardless, that is too much depth leaving Toronto. Never going to happen.
Well unless it was based around a 1 for 1 (like a Gardiner/Phaneuf) then you have to sacrifice depth.

Connolly is expendable, Kadri is scheduled to make the NHL this year possibly, so the only real depth lost is Kulemin. Who could be replaced by a guy like Frattin.

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01-07-2013, 07:37 PM
  #405
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Key question that fans would like answered to gauge Roberto's value in the new CBA landscape:

Who retains his cap hit if he retires: the team who originally signed him to that contract or the team that acquires him?

If the cap implications travel with the player, Roberto is essentially immovable, IMO.

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01-07-2013, 07:38 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
Kulemin is an absolute no-go from me. I would walk away if Vancouver insisted.
Same deal, but swap Kuli with Finn+ Franson.

Go?

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01-07-2013, 07:41 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Well unless it was based around a 1 for 1 (like a Gardiner/Phaneuf) then you have to sacrifice depth.

Connolly is expendable, Kadri is scheduled to make the NHL this year possibly, so the only real depth lost is Kulemin. Who could be replaced by a guy like Frattin.
Nazem Kadri is still regarded around the league as a very solid prospect. Nikolai Kulemin, by all accounts, had a down year and you don't trade a player when his value is at an all time low. I'm sure Brian Burke knows this. His play in the KHL this year has been lights out.

I feel quite confident in saying that the Canucks will not receive both Kadri and Kulemin in a package for Roberto. Heck, Burke wouldn't ship both of them out for Mike Richards last year, you think he's going to do it for Roberto?

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01-07-2013, 07:41 PM
  #408
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If luongo wants to go to a former team maybe the isles would take him. NY could send back Nabokov and any combo of these guys Moulson, okposo or visnovsky. Vancouver might want to add a draft pick coming back too. I don't know but at least we can talk about someone other than the leafs and Florida.

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01-07-2013, 07:43 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Nazem Kadri is still regarded around the league as a very solid prospect. Nikolai Kulemin, by all accounts, had a down year and you don't trade a player when his value is at an all time low. I'm sure Brian Burke knows this. His play in the KHL this year has been lights out.

I feel quite confident in saying that the Canucks will not receive both Kadri and Kulemin in a package for Roberto. Heck, Burke wouldn't ship both of them out for Mike Richards last year, you think he's going to do it for Roberto?
First you said the issue was losing depth, now you say the issue is value?

Which is it?

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01-07-2013, 07:45 PM
  #410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Same deal, but swap Kuli with Finn+ Franson.

Go?
Whats the deal?

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01-07-2013, 07:47 PM
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
First you said the issue was losing depth, now you say the issue is value?

Which is it?
Depth and value aren't necessarily separate variables.

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01-07-2013, 07:47 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Nazem Kadri is still regarded around the league as a very solid prospect. Nikolai Kulemin, by all accounts, had a down year and you don't trade a player when his value is at an all time low. I'm sure Brian Burke knows this. His play in the KHL this year has been lights out.

I feel quite confident in saying that the Canucks will not receive both Kadri and Kulemin in a package for Roberto. Heck, Burke wouldn't ship both of them out for Mike Richards last year, you think he's going to do it for Roberto?
Are you serious.. unless you have a source (In which case my next comment is undeniably wrong) I highly doubt it. Who wouldn't pull the trigger on that move when you have needed a 1st line center (And that leadership) desperately for years.

Man what was burke thinking.. Oh well the Flyers got a much better deal from LA anyways.

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01-07-2013, 07:48 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Whats the deal?
I suggested Kuli + Kadri + Connolly.

He said Kuli was a dealbreaker

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01-07-2013, 07:49 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Same deal, but swap Kuli with Finn+ Franson.

Go?
My first instinct wasn't to puke so we're probably on the same page. I'd probably have to see how Kadri performs in the big show this season before agreeing to that. Remove Finn and i'd accept it on the spot.

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01-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Well unless it was based around a 1 for 1 (like a Gardiner/Phaneuf) then you have to sacrifice depth.

Connolly is expendable, Kadri is scheduled to make the NHL this year possibly, so the only real depth lost is Kulemin. Who could be replaced by a guy like Frattin.
respectfully disagree

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01-07-2013, 07:50 PM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Depth and value aren't necessarily separate variables.
Bozak + Kadri + Franson + 2nd

for

Luongo + Ballard

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01-07-2013, 07:51 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Depth and value aren't necessarily separate variables.
Not wanting to trade players because of depth implies you don't have suitable replaements/its an area of weakness.

Not wanting to trade a player because you like them implies you value them.


Were talking about Luongo trades because we have depth at goaltending. Luongos expendable because of Schneider.
If we didn't have depth we wouldn't trade him.

We arent discussing Schneider trades because we value him more than Luongo.

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01-07-2013, 07:53 PM
  #418
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Shipping out any youth for Roberto just feels like a mistake from a Leafs fans' perspective. They aren't exactly in the position to subtract from their youth for an older veteran, but Roberto would stabilize the position. It's a double-edged sword.

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01-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #419
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I agree that Luongo would theoretically be the best goalie in T.O. since the lockout and might get the Leafs into the playoffs. However, he has had issues in the post season, and in my opinion, it is not prudent to squander young talent for immediate help when your team is not on the cusp of being a contender.

Considering that Vancouver is in win now mode and the albatross contract that comes with Lou, I think it's entirely reasonable to send 1-2 bad contracts (for players that can still contribute now) the other way that are about to expire along with a decent prospect.

Bozak/Connolly/Lombardi, Komisarek, and a 3rd/mid level prospect.

Anything above and beyond does not make sense from the Leafs' perspective and quite frankly, I have a hard time envisioning any team giving up a top 6 forward, a top prospect, and a high draft pick for Luongo given the circumstances.


Last edited by Clark4Ever: 01-07-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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01-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Not wanting to trade players because of depth implies you don't have suitable replaements/its an area of weakness.

Not wanting to trade a player because you like them implies you value them.
I feel both are true in the deal you proposed.

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01-07-2013, 07:56 PM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Why the hell would the Vancouver ownership buy Luo out for $30+M when they could trade him away for nothing or throw him on waivers?
Well Lawton is likely suggesting here that trading him might not be so easy.

If the rumors about Luongo being "Florida or bust" are true and he refuses to waive his NTC for anyone other than Florida and Florida, accordingly, low-balls the Canucks and the trade-talk drags on into the off-season, then the trade route may become exhausted. At this point, the Canucks could threaten Luongo by putting him on waivers, but it's not inconceivable that he passes waivers without being claimed because team's are leery of his contract (Especially because I'm not sure the "cap hit reverts to Vancouver if he retires" thing applies in waivers) and, also, because teams are hoping to sign him to their own more respectable deal, at which point the Canucks would have to at least consider the buy-out.

I don't really think it's likely, but it's not an impossibility, and it's interesting to hear the viewpoint of someone who has been a GM and likely still has connections around the league.

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01-07-2013, 07:57 PM
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Bozak + Kadri + Franson + 2nd

for

Luongo + Ballard
I think this season Ballard holds value to us. There is no fear of next season as worst case we buyout. There would have to be more value coming back... probably a lot.

Bozak Kadri 1st, or Bozak Kadri Finn?

Luongo.

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01-07-2013, 07:57 PM
  #423
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Originally Posted by Seventeen Twos View Post
respectfully disagree
Fair enough, I know hes not the perfect substitute, but is the difference between Luongo and Reimer not more valuable than the difference between Kulemin and Frattin?

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01-07-2013, 08:00 PM
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Bozak + Kadri + Franson + 2nd

for

Luongo + Ballard
That's literally as high as I would go from a Leafs POV. Trading Kadri makes me nervous but I'd rather retain Kulemin so yeah, if Burke trades more then that I will be quite upset.

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01-07-2013, 08:03 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I feel both are true in the deal you proposed.
Depthwise, where do Connolly and Kadri fit in?

I know Kulemin is a decent 2nd line tweener, but the Leafs were in the top end of NHL scoring and near the bottom of goals against.

Wouldnt it make sense to deal from a position of strength (forward) to address an issue (precenting goals against)?

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