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Old
01-07-2013, 08:42 PM
  #51
daynus
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not sure how this 48-50 game season will

turn out for us. this team is young, has a pretty big window to win the cup. so be patient folks. we are probably only a few players away from being a serious deep threat. i would just like it if we could draft better d-men, let them develop in the chl or university. subban was a 2nd rounder, weber a 2nd rounder, this team would be lethal with better defense scouts. pronger,timmonen, please we need defensive scouts.

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01-07-2013, 09:20 PM
  #52
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I loved Lavi when he first came in because he wasn't John Stevens. A few years later and I am not much of a fan anymore. I don't like his all offense, no defence style of coaching. Yeah, his time outs are great but why on earth does this team keep falling 0-2 or 0-3 early in the first? Are they not prepared? Do they tune him out? And his line matching in the last 2 years of the playoffs was terrible, especially when he had last line change.

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01-07-2013, 09:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
I loved Lavi when he first came in because he wasn't John Stevens. A few years later and I am not much of a fan anymore. I don't like his all offense, no defence style of coaching. Yeah, his time outs are great but why on earth does this team keep falling 0-2 or 0-3 early in the first? Are they not prepared? Do they tune him out? And his line matching in the last 2 years of the playoffs was terrible, especially when he had last line change.
Last year Lavy had a head case goalie, no number one defender, an injury plagued D and a couple good defensive forwards (one being a rookie). I don't see how anyone can blame the guy for anything last year and, IMO, he got the team to overachieve.

Everyone has their faults, so I don't think Lavy is without them; however, falling down a couple of goals regularly seemed to be due to a lack of leadership on the ice (just my opinion). Giroux seems to be growing more comfortable with leading the team, and Lavys coaching should translate better to on ice production once he has that (leader) extension... Just a theory.

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01-07-2013, 10:44 PM
  #54
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I never pegged the Devils to go anywhere, but my early Cup prediction, and a popular one from what I remember, was Kings/Flyers.

I expected first the Flyers, then the Rangers, to decimate the Devils. They really shocked me.
Losing Chris Pronger really really hurt. We were just much better with him in there, pretty much derailed the entire season.

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01-07-2013, 10:50 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by daynus View Post
turn out for us. this team is young, has a pretty big window to win the cup. so be patient folks. we are probably only a few players away from being a serious deep threat. i would just like it if we could draft better d-men, let them develop in the chl or university. subban was a 2nd rounder, weber a 2nd rounder, this team would be lethal with better defense scouts. pronger,timmonen, please we need defensive scouts.
I'm not sure we even have an issue with scouts...we never have high draft picks. We have only picked like 6 out of the last 10 years. And traded like 4 of those guys (just winging, this, didn't look it up).

Most of the (top round) picks we have made are playing in the NHL, that's better than most can say. I think our scouting is good.

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01-07-2013, 11:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
I'm not sure we even have an issue with scouts...we never have high draft picks. We have only picked like 6 out of the last 10 years. And traded like 4 of those guys (just winging, this, didn't look it up).

Most of the (top round) picks we have made are playing in the NHL, that's better than most can say. I think our scouting is good.
Bolded were traded

1st round picks since 2002 :
2002 : Joni Pitkanen
2003 : Jeff Carter, Mike Richards
2004 : None
2005 : Steve Downie
2006 : Claude Giroux
2007 : James Van Riemsdyk
2008 : Luca Sbisa
2009 : none
2010 : none
2011 : Sean Couturier
2012 : Scott Laughton

2nd round picks since 2002 :
2002 : none
2003 : none
2004 : none
2005 : none
2006 : Andreas Nodl, Mike Ratchuk, Denis Bodrov
2007 : Kevin Marshall
2008 : none
2009 : none
2010 : none
2011 : none
2012 : Anthony Stolarz

In the last 11 drafts, we have drafted in the top 60 14 times with only 5 2nd round picks in there and 3 of those were in 2006.

We need to stop trading picks away for rentals.

Positional breakdown :
Forward : 8
Defense : 5
Goaltender : 1

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01-07-2013, 11:03 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Bolded were traded

1st round picks since 2002 :
2002 : Joni Pitkanen
2003 : Jeff Carter, Mike Richards
2004 : None
2005 : Steve Downie
2006 : Claude Giroux
2007 : James Van Riemsdyk
2008 : Luca Sbisa
2009 : none
2010 : none
2011 : Sean Couturier
2012 : Scott Laughton

2nd round picks since 2002 :
2002 : none
2003 : none
2004 : none
2005 : none
2006 : Andreas Nodl, Mike Ratchuk, Denis Bodrov
2007 : Kevin Marshall
2008 : none
2009 : none
2010 : none
2011 : none
2012 : Anthony Stolarz

In the last 11 drafts, we have drafted in the top 60 14 times with only 5 2nd round picks in there and 3 of those were in 2006.

We need to stop trading picks away for rentals.
You forgot to bold Nodl.

Looking at that is hilarious. No wonder our prospect pool is nothing but 4th liners and bottom pairing temporary call-ups.

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01-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #58
Krishna
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
You forgot to bold Nodl.

Looking at that is hilarious. No wonder our prospect pool is nothing but 4th liners and bottom pairing temporary call-ups.
Nodl was waived, not traded

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01-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #59
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The one thing that is holding this team back is not having a true number one defender.
Pronged was that guys and weber would have been that guy. We have youth And depth on offense and goalie who can win the cup, yes he is over paid. If we had either pronger or weber there is not doubt in my mind we are probably one of two Or three preseason favorites to win the cup

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01-07-2013, 11:27 PM
  #60
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If we struggle this year and the playoffs end like they did the last two seasons, Lavy has to go.

We’re 0-13 the last two playoff years when scoring less than 4 goals? How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?

I don't want to see a "lock down the fort" style of play, just a more defensive oriented system. The current system sells tickets, jerseys, and wins quite a bit, mostly in the regular season.

The playoff results the last two years proves that pond hockey doesn’t work. Teams won’t play that style against us like Pittsburgh foolishly did last spring. It’s easier to shut this team down than to try and play pond hockey with it.

What other top tier coach is winless in the playoffs the last two years when his team scores less than 4 goals?

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01-07-2013, 11:27 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Nodl was waived, not traded

Eh, I'd still count that.

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01-07-2013, 11:30 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
If we struggle this year and the playoffs end like they did the last two seasons, Lavy has to go.

We’re 0-13 the last two playoff years when scoring less than 4 goals? How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?

I don't want to see a "lock down the fort" style of play, just a more defensive oriented system. The current system sells tickets, jerseys, and wins quite a bit, mostly in the regular season.

The playoff results the last two years proves that pond hockey doesn’t work. Teams won’t play that style against us like Pittsburgh foolishly did last spring. It’s easier to shut this team down than to try and play pond hockey with it

What other top tier coach is winless in the playoffs the last two years when his team scores less than 4 goals?
Our goaltending has been bad the last two years, and it's been explained to you numerous times by numerous people that Lavi's variation of the left-wing lock is a system, not "go out there and make it up!" pond hockey.

Edit: And let's not forget the major defensive injuries.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 01-07-2013 at 11:36 PM.
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01-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
If we struggle this year and the playoffs end like they did the last two seasons, Lavy has to go.

We’re 0-13 the last two playoff years when scoring less than 4 goals? How are we gonna win a cup when we can't win low scoring, tightly contested playoff style games?

I don't want to see a "lock down the fort" style of play, just a more defensive oriented system. The current system sells tickets, jerseys, and wins quite a bit, mostly in the regular season.

The playoff results the last two years proves that pond hockey doesn’t work. Teams won’t play that style against us like Pittsburgh foolishly did last spring. It’s easier to shut this team down than to try and play pond hockey with it.

What other top tier coach is winless in the playoffs the last two years when his team scores less than 4 goals?
I agree that you do have to play quality defense as a team, but having a real number one defender that isn't on his last legs would have made the defense so much better. Hell even having an aging pronger would have made this team 100% better defensively

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01-07-2013, 11:41 PM
  #64
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I agree that you do have to play quality defense as a team, but having a real number one defender that isn't on his last legs would have made the defense so much better. Hell even having an aging pronger would have made this team 100% better defensively
A healthier #1 on D would have helped, but even if that was Timmo, he's only on the ice for 24-28 min at most. The system is still too much race up and down the ice to try and score, and too many players neglecting to even attempt playing any sort of defense.

The system has to change. The Kings played a defense first system and it won them a cup. Same thing with the Bruins.

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01-07-2013, 11:43 PM
  #65
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If Lavy is pond hockey, wth is Stevens system called?

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01-07-2013, 11:44 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
If Lavy is pond hockey, wth is Stevens system called?
cake baking

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01-07-2013, 11:44 PM
  #67
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Reading this, you'd think the Flyers never made it to the Finals under Lavi.

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01-07-2013, 11:48 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Bolded were traded

1st round picks since 2002 :
2002 : Joni Pitkanen
2003 : Jeff Carter, Mike Richards
2004 : None
2005 : Steve Downie
2006 : Claude Giroux
2007 : James Van Riemsdyk
2008 : Luca Sbisa
2009 : none
2010 : none
2011 : Sean Couturier
2012 : Scott Laughton

We need to stop trading picks away for rentals.

Isn't this the truth. I'm confident that if we do this our scouting will make us a powerhouse.

Also, 2011 we traded our own pick for Versteeg...and needed Carter to get us #8, so even worse.

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01-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by 35NW8ING View Post
A healthier #1 on D would have helped, but even if that was Timmo, he's only on the ice for 24-28 min at most. The system is still too much race up and down the ice to try and score, and too many players neglecting to even attempt playing any sort of defense.

The system has to change. The Kings played a defense first system and it won them a cup. Same thing with the Bruins.
They also barely made it into the playoffs in the first place because they couldn't score. If they didn't have Quick last year I doubt they even make the playoffs.

EDIT: If we had an NHL goalie, back up or otherwise in 2010 we likely would have won the CUP. Boucher and Leighton are both absolutely awful, especially Leighton

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01-07-2013, 11:51 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Reading this, you'd think the Flyers never made it to the Finals under Lavi.
Well, I will say that last season he should have adjusted to having a much weaker defensive group of forwards and not played as much of the up tempo game that he likes.

Honestly I can't see this season being much better "defensively".

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01-07-2013, 11:55 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Isn't this the truth. I'm confident that if we do this our scouting will make us a powerhouse.

Also, 2011 we traded our own pick for Versteeg...and needed Carter to get us #8, so even worse.
Carter and Richards basically had to be traded to restock the roster. It would have been hard to put a full team on the ice the following season because of cap reasons. And that is entirely Homers fault. And yea I know that there were other things going on between Richards, Carter and the media.

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01-07-2013, 11:58 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
If Lavy is pond hockey, wth is Stevens system called?
Something closer to what Hitchcock uses.

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01-08-2013, 12:02 AM
  #73
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If Lavy is pond hockey, wth is Stevens system called?
i believe stevens system was referred to as "what the hell is going on? where am i?"

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01-08-2013, 12:03 AM
  #74
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Now we're talking.....Flyers hockey is definitely back ...complete with fan disagreements. Love it!

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01-08-2013, 12:03 AM
  #75
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They also barely made it into the playoffs in the first place because they couldn't score. If they didn't have Quick last year I doubt they even make the playoffs.

EDIT: If we had an NHL goalie, back up or otherwise in 2010 we likely would have won the CUP. Boucher and Leighton are both absolutely awful, especially Leighton
But they did make it in, because they did score enough.

And they did have Quick and made the playoffs.

If it wasn't for Leighton standing on his head, we don't make the playoffs either, but we did because Leighton played a huge part in the last 30 or so games. He played very well in the playoffs. I don't judge him on one bad goal, or even a few games. His body of work that season was stellar.

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