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Luongo: Light at the end of the tunnel?

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:03 PM
  #426
racerjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Shipping out any youth for Roberto just feels like a mistake from a Leafs fans' perspective. They aren't exactly in the position to subtract from their youth for an older veteran, but Roberto would stabilize the position. It's a double-edged sword.
I have said this in other threads, and will repeat it now, at some point a team must turn the corner. No team goes from a bust, to Stanley Cup contenders. It's baby steps. Now I understand if you don't want Lui for many reasons, but I hate the argument of we don't want to be good yet, which is essentially what people say when they reply with I'd rather get another high draft pick.

This wasn't necessarily to you, just seen a lot of people saying stuff like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
Well Lawton is likely suggesting here that trading him might not be so easy.

If the rumors about Luongo being "Florida or bust" are true and he refuses to waive his NTC for anyone other than Florida and Florida, accordingly, low-balls the Canucks and the trade-talk drags on into the off-season, then the trade route may become exhausted. At this point, the Canucks could threaten Luongo by putting him on waivers, but it's not inconceivable that he passes waivers without being claimed because team's are leery of his contract (Especially because I'm not sure the "cap hit reverts to Vancouver if he retires" thing applies in waivers) and, also, because teams are hoping to sign him to their own more respectable deal, at which point the Canucks would have to at least consider the buy-out.

I don't really think it's likely, but it's not an impossibility, and it's interesting to hear the viewpoint of someone who has been a GM and likely still has connections around the league.
We still have the hammer, and waive him, and a team like TO, CBJ would probably pick him up, before we would possibly buy him out. There is literally no way I can see us buying him out.

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01-07-2013, 08:05 PM
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
Well Lawton is likely suggesting here that trading him might not be so easy.

If the rumors about Luongo being "Florida or bust" are true and he refuses to waive his NTC for anyone other than Florida and Florida, accordingly, low-balls the Canucks and the trade-talk drags on into the off-season, then the trade route may become exhausted. At this point, the Canucks could threaten Luongo by putting him on waivers, but it's not inconceivable that he passes waivers without being claimed because team's are leery of his contract (Especially because I'm not sure the "cap hit reverts to Vancouver if he retires" thing applies in waivers) and, also, because teams are hoping to sign him to their own more respectable deal, at which point the Canucks would have to at least consider the buy-out.

I don't really think it's likely, but it's not an impossibility, and it's interesting to hear the viewpoint of someone who has been a GM and likely still has connections around the league.
Fair enough but Luongo himself said today he has given Gillis the green light to do what is best for the team. He wants to play and be a number 1 on an NHL team. That doesn't sound to me like a guy who is only looking to play for one team and is going to play hardball. All these rumors about him wanting to play for FLA or bust have been blown way out of proportion.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:09 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
A person who was a general manager in the NHL seems to think Roberto will be bought out rather than traded. His opinion holds more weight than any poster in here.
I think that if an owner has to bail out his GM by buying out a perfectly good (even great) player, then that GM should be on the next plane out of town also.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:11 PM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I suggested Kuli + Kadri + Connolly.

He said Kuli was a dealbreaker
So the new deal is Finn, Franson, Kadri, Connolly?

Not bad but I'm not a huge fan, Kadri and Finn are intriguing, Franson and Connolly are not IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
Bozak + Kadri + Franson + 2nd

for

Luongo + Ballard
No thanks. Ballard > Franson.

Then would we really be happy with Lu for Bozak, Kadri, 2nd. I doubt we would.

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01-07-2013, 08:12 PM
  #430
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Yeah, Kulemin is a no go (at least I hope) We need more players like Kulemin, he's out best defensive forward and his value is at an all time low, so trading him wouldn't be too smart.

Question for Canuck fans. What would you prefer in a deal; Bozak or Connolly + prospect?
Lets say the prospect is Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton

soo basing it off the rumored deal (which probably has no truth to it)

Kadri
Bozak

or

Kadri
Connolly
Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton


Last edited by Hennig: 01-07-2013 at 08:18 PM.
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Old
01-07-2013, 08:18 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Yeah, Kulemin is a no go (at least I hope) We need more players like Kulemin, he's out best defensive forward and his value is at an all time low, so trading him wouldn't be too smart.

Question for Canuck fans. What would you prefer in a deal; Bozak or Connolly + prospect?
Lets say the prospect is Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton etc...?

soo basing it off the rumored deal (which probably has no truth to it)

Kadri
Bozak

or

Kadri
Connolly
Finn
I would want Connolly and Finn.

(I just suggested Kadri, Connolly, Finn and Franson as an alternative to Connolly, Kadri, Kulemin).

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Yeah, Kulemin is a no go (at least I hope) We need more players like Kulemin, he's out best defensive forward and his value is at an all time low, so trading him wouldn't be too smart.

Question for Canuck fans. What would you prefer in a deal; Bozak or Connolly + prospect?
Lets say the prospect is Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton

soo basing it off the rumored deal (which probably has no truth to it)

Kadri
Bozak

or

Kadri
Connolly
Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton
The latter, but I'd hope at the very least a 2nd is also thrown in.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:23 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
You can't roll the same roster.

The Cap is going down by 6 million, and you have large raises to Burrows and Edler (if you retain Edler) starting next season.

You have to trade Luongo or make sacrifices elsewhere in the team. You cannot "roll the same roster."
Cap is coming down but teams are allowed to spend up to 70.2 million no?

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Yeah, Kulemin is a no go (at least I hope) We need more players like Kulemin, he's out best defensive forward and his value is at an all time low, so trading him wouldn't be too smart.

Question for Canuck fans. What would you prefer in a deal; Bozak or Connolly + prospect?
Lets say the prospect is Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton

soo basing it off the rumored deal (which probably has no truth to it)

Kadri
Bozak

or

Kadri
Connolly
Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton
Seeing Nazem traded for an aging veteran would hurt. I'd try to build something around Joe Colborne + Stuart Percy + 2nd round pick.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:25 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
Cap is coming down but teams are allowed to spend up to 70.2 million no?
This year they are, yes. Then it will drop to 64.3 million where it will stay. It cannot drop any lower than that.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:27 PM
  #436
Hennig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would want Connolly and Finn.

(I just suggested Kadri, Connolly, Finn and Franson as an alternative to Connolly, Kadri, Kulemin).
I'd definitely give that deal a long look, I would be hesitant in trading Kadri as it looks like he is finally ready to play in the NHL and we've groomed him for years now, but IMO Luongo will single-handedly take us to the playoffs.

Franson is worthless to me, I don't think he will or wants to play another game for the leafs because how he was treated. He continuously play good enough to be in the line up but yet for some reason was always in Wilsons dog house.

But yeah thats definitely a deal I would do.

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01-07-2013, 08:28 PM
  #437
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Luongo to the Leafs

Bozak, Reimer, Mckegg, 2nd rd pick
for
Luongo, Raymond

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:29 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Seeing Nazem traded for an aging veteran would hurt. I'd try to build something around Joe Colborne + Stuart Percy + 2nd round pick.
Honestly though, if you were in Vancouvers shoes what would you think of that?

Thats like us offering Schroeder, Gaunce and a 2nd for Phaneuf.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:29 PM
  #439
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This season yes...2013-2014 cap will go down to approx 64.32 million

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:29 PM
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
I'd definitely give that deal a long look, I would be hesitant in trading Kadri as it looks like he is finally ready to play in the NHL and we've groomed him for years now, but IMO Luongo will single-handedly take us to the playoffs.

Franson is worthless to me, I don't think he will or wants to play another game for the leafs because how he was treated. He continuously play good enough to be in the line up but yet for some reason was always in Wilsons dog house.

But yeah thats definitely a deal I would do.
Just wanted to say thanks for being seemingly one of the few Leaf fans to admit that.

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01-07-2013, 08:30 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by 36crazyfists View Post
Luongo to the Leafs

Bozak, Reimer, Mckegg, 2nd rd pick
for
Luongo, Raymond
Honest question: Outside of Bozak why would we want that (while givin up raymond)

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01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Seeing Nazem traded for an aging veteran would hurt. I'd try to build something around Joe Colborne + Stuart Percy + 2nd round pick.
Of course we would, Joe Colborne is garbage, Percy and the 2nd are dime-a-dozen. I agree losing Nazem would suck, and yes Luongo is "aging" but we all are in a way. The veteran term is the only reason I want Luongo. If history teaches us anything it's that, unless we have some blue-chipper goalie prospect (which still doesn't guarantee success in TO), the only goalie that will be able to deal with the pressure in TO, and also play well is a veteran.

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01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by 36crazyfists View Post
Luongo to the Leafs

Bozak, Reimer, Mckegg, 2nd rd pick
for
Luongo, Raymond
What part of that trade is supposed to help the Canucks?

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:32 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Just wanted to say thanks for being seemingly one of the few Leaf fans to admit that.
I like the idea of tanev- franson if ballards dealt

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01-07-2013, 08:33 PM
  #445
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I think he end sup in florida.
I think florida bites and gives up an A prospect and we take a lesser pick.

Lu has been training with the Florida guys and apparently all involved parties have been getting along well.
Florida owners have been rumored to be interested. They had a good start last year and Lu could be a solid face for them till one of there prospects takes the next step.

Or edmonton offers us hall and we have to seem him 6 times a year.. (puts the pipe down)

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01-07-2013, 08:35 PM
  #446
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Yeah, Kulemin is a no go (at least I hope) We need more players like Kulemin, he's out best defensive forward and his value is at an all time low, so trading him wouldn't be too smart.

Question for Canuck fans. What would you prefer in a deal; Bozak or Connolly + prospect?
Lets say the prospect is Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton

soo basing it off the rumored deal (which probably has no truth to it)

Kadri
Bozak

or

Kadri
Connolly
Finn/Colborne/Percy/Ashton
Those are both kinda bad for us. A 2nd would have to be added in both deals for me/us to atleast start looking at it seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Seeing Nazem traded for an aging veteran would hurt. I'd try to build something around Joe Colborne + Stuart Percy + 2nd round pick.
We need to get some quality too. Not a big fan of Colborne, I only see him as a 3rd liner honestly, I would rather have Finn than Percy, the 2nd is fine but the overall deal isn't enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Just wanted to say thanks for being seemingly one of the few Leaf fans to admit that.
I know, I don't think Franson holds much value from our POV either, he would be a throw in not one of the pieces holding significant value.

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01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
  #447
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Best move for the Canucks is to hold on to Luongo and buy him in the offseason.

No risk of this cap hit potentially biting them in the rear down the road if he retires early

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01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by Clark4Ever View Post
I agree that Luongo would theoretically be the best goalie in T.O. since the lockout and might get the Leafs into the playoffs. However, he has had issues in the post season, and in my opinion, it is not prudent to squander young talent for immediate help when your team is not on the cusp of being a contender.

Considering that Vancouver is in win now mode and the albatross contract that comes with Lou, I think it's entirely reasonable to send 1-2 bad contracts (for players that can still contribute now) the other way that are about to expire along with a decent prospect.

Bozak/Connolly/Lombardi, Komisarek, and a 3rd/mid level prospect.

Anything above and beyond does not make sense from the Leafs' perspective and quite frankly, I have a hard time envisioning any team giving up a top 6 forward, a top prospect, and a high draft pick for Luongo given the circumstances.
So your best possible offer would be Bozak+ Komisarek + 3rd ?

Sign me up.

Why is Vancouver trading Luongo in the first place? To gain salary? To trade a quality player for junk?

Just say you don't want him. That offer is more than insulting

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01-07-2013, 08:36 PM
  #449
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Here's my analysis:

Luongo has value as a very good goaltender but with some question marks and he is older at age 34. Thus he is prime only for his best play in the next 3-4 years. On top of this he has a No trade clause limiting the options of his GM to get the best value available.

His contract, aside from dipietro and maybe khabibulin, is the worst goalie contract in the NHL and it just got worse with the contraction of the cap.

Thus one would have to assess how much the luongo's contract diminishes his trade value.

The contract is a negative thing for all cup contending teams as it takes up a lot of cap room especially for the goalie position. Thus, the teams he would be ideally suited for like him less due to the contract.

The other thing would be the fact that Luongo's question mark is on his performance in the playoffs. If you are a cup contending team, and you see a goalie have meltdowns and bad performances that outshine his accomplishments, you know that Luongo is not a sure thing in net for your own team's performance.

Thus to a contender Luongo is Not attractive and thus I would assume that would mean any contender would probably pass unless Vancouver was offering a high Value asset alongside luongo to offset the sting of Luongo's contract. I don't know of any Canucks players that could realistically be offered in this way.

For Toronto, they have $$$ and they are a couple years away from being considered a contender. They will offer something for Luongo IMO only because of the option to exercise an amnesty buyout after this year and next. Thus he would worth the chance to have as a goalie to potentially solidify the team for this season and maybe next.

I could see Toronto offering only a 3rd or 4th line veteran type, or a non-high potential asset. They won't want to give up much of anything in terms of future value. They will look at Luongo as a goalie who would be capable of helping the leafs to the playoffs this season.

If Luongo is bad, he will be bought out by the leafs after the season is over. Thus he would be viewed like a project player.

If Luongo is good, they will give him another year. If he is good after that, they will have to decide whether he is playing good enough to keep around and bring more success for the leafs. At some point however his contract will limit what the leafs can do up front, and Reimer may be ready to take over by then thus Luongo would get traded or bought out.

The canucks would rather have luongo gone now than have to hold onto him and buy him out in the offseason, thus I believe the canucks will make a deal before the season starts and they will take anything that won't hurt their cap and could potentially contribute to the team. If Toronto is in the playoff race at the trade deadline and if Reimer is playing like trash and hindering the race, and Luongo is playing well when called upon in Vancouver. Toronto might be convinced to give up something like kadri to help solidify the team.

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01-07-2013, 08:37 PM
  #450
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I like the idea of tanev- franson if ballards dealt
I don't.

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