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Bryan Murray on the team 1200 at 3:05 today.

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01-07-2013, 07:47 PM
  #76
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I agree, I don't think we would be willing to move the assets needed to acquire him. Tough/physical players who actually have some skill are a valuable commodity. I still think that we could in part solve the toughness issue by giving Dziurzynski a spot and trading for or signing (in the off season) Pierre Cedric Labrie.

They are both pretty big (Dizzy 6'3 218 lbs, Labrie 6'3 234 lbs) both can skate and both have put up around 30 points in the AHL, so they have decent skill. Then you get Neil to take them under his wing and help develop them so when he retires, we have a few guys to take over his role.

Overall I think my main issue with the overall toughness of this team is lack they aren't physical enough; they don't have enough mean players that are willing to agitate and make some big hits. Our bottom six isn't nearly physical enough and we rely to heavily on Neil to take over the physical side of the game.
you and aragorn keep mentioning all these names, but the fact is we have a 23 man roster and i don't see where these guys would fit in. the forwards are pretty much set, the only place where we there is space is on the d.

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01-07-2013, 07:53 PM
  #77
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you and aragorn keep mentioning all these names, but the fact is we have a 23 man roster and i don't see where these guys would fit in. the forwards are pretty much set, the only place where we there is space is on the d.
I'm talking about next season. We have too many contracts at this point, but we should have a fair amount of roster spots open up going into next season. In the bottom six alone, Daugavins, Regin and Condra should all be gone.

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01-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #78
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Our bottom 6 has Z.Smith, Neil, JOB, Greening, Daug. We're fine physically with the bottom 6. We don't need to sign a scrub like Labrie 'just because'.

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01-07-2013, 08:07 PM
  #79
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Our bottom 6 has Z.Smith, Neil, JOB, Greening, Daug. We're fine physically with the bottom 6. We don't need to sign a scrub like Labrie 'just because'.
How is Labrie a scrub?

And no we are not fine in terms of physicality in the bottom six, we are still relying way to heavily on Neil. Daug isn't physical, JOB has some grit but he isn't all that physical either, Greening isn't mean enough on the ice and Smith is good but he needs to be more consistent.

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01-07-2013, 08:10 PM
  #80
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Every member of the bottom 6 doesn't have to play like Neil. JOB, Smith and Greening are physical enough players for the bottom 6 and are all good defensively which is the most important aspect of playing in the bottom 6.

Labrie isn't better then JOB, Greening, Smith, Condra or Neil. Maybe Daugavins but its still arguable.

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01-07-2013, 08:17 PM
  #81
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Every member of the bottom 6 doesn't have to play like Neil. JOB, Smith and Greening are physical enough players for the bottom 6 and are all good defensively which is the most important aspect of playing in the bottom 6.

Labrie isn't better then JOB, Greening, Smith, Condra or Neil. Maybe Daugavins but its still arguable.
For one, I have been suggesting Labrie as the 13th forward for next season. He is fairly skilled for an "enforcer" and he is a decent agitator, IMO he is kind of an ideal forward for the utility role as 13th forward.

Aside from that, I see the value that Neil adds to the team through his physical play. Having a few extra players like him could really benefit the team. That is why I suggested adding Labrie and Dziurzynski to the lineup next season. We can stick with what we have this season.

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01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
For one, I have been suggesting Labrie as the 13th forward for next season. He is fairly skilled for an "enforcer" and he is a decent agitator, IMO he is kind of an ideal forward for the utility role as 13th forward.

Aside from that, I see the value that Neil adds to the team through his physical play. Having a few extra players like him could really benefit the team. That is why I suggested adding Labrie and Dziurzynski to the lineup next season. We can stick with what we have this season.
I believe Bryan Murray was discussing the Ottawa Senators lineup, not the Binghamton Senators lineup. Minor leaguers aren't relevant to the conversation.

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01-07-2013, 08:54 PM
  #83
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I believe Bryan Murray was discussing the Ottawa Senators lineup, not the Binghamton Senators lineup. Minor leaguers aren't relevant to the conversation.
Dziurzynski is a prospect who has a very good chance of making the team next year, so other than playing in the AHL he isn't a minor leaguer in the context that you implied. Labrie is a bit older but he has progressed a lot over the last few seasons and even managed to play some NHL games last season. At this point he is pretty close to becoming a 4th liner somewhere around the league.

Labrie is one of the few "enforcer" type of players available as a free agent this off season who can actually play the game. Murray likes to have a few enforcers on the team and when you find a guy who can actually play the game, it is worthwhile looking into. Most of the time you have to sacrifice skill for toughness, so when you can find a tough player with decent skill it is good to jump on that opportunity.

Both Dziurzynski and Labrie are similar players to Neil and IMO we could use a few more players like Neil.

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01-07-2013, 09:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Dziurzynski is a prospect who has a very good chance of making the team next year, so other than playing in the AHL he isn't a minor leaguer in the context that you implied. Labrie is a bit older but he has progressed a lot over the last few seasons and even managed to play some NHL games last season. At this point he is pretty close to becoming a 4th liner somewhere around the league.

Labrie is one of the few "enforcer" type of players available as a free agent this off season who can actually play the game. Murray likes to have a few enforcers on the team and when you find a guy who can actually play the game, it is worthwhile looking into. Most of the time you have to sacrifice skill for toughness, so when you can find a tough player with decent skill it is good to jump on that opportunity.

Both Dziurzynski and Labrie are similar players to Neil and IMO we could use a few more players like Neil.
If PC Labrie, veteran of 14 NHL games, is really that important an addition to this team, I think we're hopeless either way.

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01-07-2013, 09:13 PM
  #85
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Regin will take this team to the Cup, you will see

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01-07-2013, 09:13 PM
  #86
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If PC Labrie, veteran of 14 NHL games, is really that important an addition to this team, I think we're hopeless either way.
Some players are late bloomers. Neil has been huge for the sens and I guess some fans just don't understand the value of adding a few more players like him.

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01-07-2013, 10:01 PM
  #87
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Some players are late bloomers. Neil has been huge for the sens and I guess some fans just don't understand the value of adding a few more players like him.
if dziurzynski is playing in the bigs next season, then we don't need labrie. like was mentioned we don't 6 "tough guys" on the bottom. i think we have the right mix now, and going forward.

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01-07-2013, 10:36 PM
  #88
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Some players are late bloomers. Neil has been huge for the sens and I guess some fans just don't understand the value of adding a few more players like him.
Couldn't agree more. I've seen far too many highly skilled Sens teams fail in the playoffs because they were so soft. I can't believe how many people seem to have forgotten that. Does anyone really believe that last years team could have taken the Rangers to seven games if Carkner didn't do what he did in game two?

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01-07-2013, 10:39 PM
  #89
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Couldn't agree more. I've seen far too many highly skilled Sens teams fail in the playoffs because they were so soft. I can't believe how many people seem to have forgotten that. Does anyone really believe that last years team could have taken the Rangers to seven games if Carkner didn't do what he did in game two?
But you don't need an entire team of "tough" guys either.

I feel like people think the loss of Carkner and Foligno are going to make the Sens super soft.

But really, we still have Smith, Neil, Greening... can I hope that Methot is a bit tough?? (I don't know enough about him, really). But honestly, we have 3-4 tough guys, I think that is probably enough. And I feel like we have more "tough" guys, as in big, heavy presence, not necessarily fighters in our prospect ring a bit as well.

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01-07-2013, 11:11 PM
  #90
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I don't see how Labrie is any better than anything we currently have in the pipeline. Pass on Labrie.

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01-07-2013, 11:20 PM
  #91
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We are plenty tough. The team is built for speed and skill, the more you try and play tough the more teams are going to challenge you that way. We want to play red wings hockey but better. Honest and dominating.

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01-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #92
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Dziurzynski is a prospect who has a very good chance of making the team next year, so other than playing in the AHL he isn't a minor leaguer in the context that you implied. Labrie is a bit older but he has progressed a lot over the last few seasons and even managed to play some NHL games last season. At this point he is pretty close to becoming a 4th liner somewhere around the league.

Labrie is one of the few "enforcer" type of players available as a free agent this off season who can actually play the game. Murray likes to have a few enforcers on the team and when you find a guy who can actually play the game, it is worthwhile looking into. Most of the time you have to sacrifice skill for toughness, so when you can find a tough player with decent skill it is good to jump on that opportunity.

Both Dziurzynski and Labrie are similar players to Neil and IMO we could use a few more players like Neil.
Why do we need to be built like the Bruins? Our system is reminiscent to that of the Detroit Red Wings of recent seasons obviously because of Coach Paul Maclean and if you haven't noticed the Red Wings haven't exactly been the most intimidating team! They have done well without the intimidating "tough guys" and I see no reason why we cannot do the same!

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01-07-2013, 11:50 PM
  #93
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I really think that before the team writes off the prospects as depth players they need to get them up and give them a chance. There is always room to send them down but they need to play NHL players to determine their level. I don't know Lundin but Boro must be close. Gryba plays very much like Cowen. Wiercioch has decent offensive skills but will need to step up defensively. It will depend on what management wants. If they want another EK then none of these guys would fill that position.

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01-07-2013, 11:50 PM
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What made me so happy was when he said he will address the toughness issue if it becomes a need.

If we get a tough bottom 6er, I think we become that much more lethal and competitive.

During the playoffs last year, guys like Carkner, Neil and especially Kenopka were huge.

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01-08-2013, 01:33 AM
  #95
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What made me so happy was when he said he will address the toughness issue if it becomes a need.

If we get a tough bottom 6er, I think we become that much more lethal and competitive.

During the playoffs last year, guys like Carkner, Neil and especially Kenopka were huge.

Loved what Carkner and Konopka did last year. Still pissed off with NYR. They couldn't out-skill Ottawa so they went with so called toughness. How could the refs let Boyle go after Karlsson like he did? And they each get offsetting penalties?? Ottawa had to respond. Don't have the stats, but I bet OTT took more penalties than the Rangers. And it cost them.

I'd rather have seen Ottawa play their skill guys, see them skate circles around NYR and wear them out playing hockey. Remember what NYR played like at even strength? They sucked! They needed all those power-plays to take the series.

It's sad to see Carkner and Konopka go. But, there is a salary cap. We can't afford them, considering the young talent we have coming up. Not really. And what does NYR do? They go out and buy the UFA prize of 2012 -- Rick Nash. Just like they did a year ago with Brad Richards. How do they get away with that? Salary cap? What salary cap??

Sorry about the rant.

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01-08-2013, 01:39 AM
  #96
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I'd rather have seen Ottawa play their skill guys, see them skate circles around NYR and wear them out playing hockey. Remember what NYR played like at even strength? They sucked! They needed all those power-plays to take the series.
This was NYR game, they got to top of the league by best using their players defensively. We did play our skill game, but couldn't overcome them at the end.

It's not that NYR's has money, many teams have money, it's that NY is a popular destination. They have great prospects and are lucky that players want to play from them, so they take advantage.

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01-08-2013, 01:40 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by peter67 View Post
Loved what Carkner and Konopka did last year. Still pissed off with NYR. They couldn't out-skill Ottawa so they went with so called toughness. How could the refs let Boyle go after Karlsson like he did? And they each get offsetting penalties?? Ottawa had to respond. Don't have the stats, but I bet OTT took more penalties than the Rangers. And it cost them.

I'd rather have seen Ottawa play their skill guys, see them skate circles around NYR and wear them out playing hockey. Remember what NYR played like at even strength? They sucked! They needed all those power-plays to take the series.

It's sad to see Carkner and Konopka go. But, there is a salary cap. We can't afford them, considering the young talent we have coming up. Not really. And what does NYR do? They go out and buy the UFA prize of 2012 -- Rick Nash. Just like they did a year ago with Brad Richards. How do they get away with that? Salary cap? What salary cap??

Sorry about the rant.
not sure if serious oooor.....

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01-08-2013, 02:00 AM
  #98
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well, if all teams played that "defensive" NYR style, I'd rather go watch something else.

I know, Melnyk has the money to afford the tough guys. It's just a question of team management with an eye to 3-4 years down the road.

A lot of my previous rant is due to how absurd things are (and being 2AM). The salary cap is meant to keep the teams balanced across the league. It seems to be working. But, for two years in a row, the NYR get the #1 UFA available. It's not right, that's all.

It's late. We all know how absurd things are with the NHL these days (133 day strike). Let's be happy they are actually going to play again, at least, that's what appears to be happening.

GO SENS!

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01-08-2013, 02:05 AM
  #99
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nash was not a FA. they traded for him.

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01-08-2013, 05:27 AM
  #100
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How is Labrie a scrub?
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and looks like a duck, and goes by the name "Duck"... chances are it's a duck.

Labrie's one of the worst skaters I can think of (and on a skating team like ours, that's like throwing a hand-grenade into a barrel of frogs: messy). He also takes ar-tard penalties all the goddamned time. He's like a slower Nick Foligno who has 4 goal upside instead of 24 goal upside. And he occasionally challenges the other team's thug to fights. Whoop-de-doo.

Someone mentioned Clutterbuck before, who I'd LOVE to get. Why? Because while he's tough as nails, he can actually PLAY HOCKEY. He's not a liability on the ice. He doesn't need his minutes managed.

Forget the punchers. I don't want ANY "Punchers" on this team. Ever. I want a skilled guy who can also punch if he needs to. Leave the Goons where they belong: in the dustbin. The NHL is going to be goon-free sooner than it is later. Not "fight-free", but goon-free. In 15 years, teams with pure skill-less goons are going to be the Gump Worsley's of the league: desperately hanging on to the old ways despite it being clear how the future is going to play out.

I'd rather not be that one team left "whose goalie refuses to wear a mask".

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