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Old
01-07-2013, 05:28 PM
  #126
Darth Vitale
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Not shocked to hear Disco's comment. Means:

A) Bennett is getting the Morrow treatment, nothing more.
B) Jeffrey and Tangradi will probably fight for Kunitz's spot.
C) Kennedy can stay where he is.

Kunitz - Sid - Dupuis
Jeffrey / Tango - Geno - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - TK

Works for me; though not ideal we can still compete with that.

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01-07-2013, 06:12 PM
  #127
Randy Butternubs
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I'm all for Jeffrey helping out Geno with the faceoffs.

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01-07-2013, 06:22 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
I was so frazzled by the lockout I completely forgot about the Vokoun signing. I'm actually more interested in that move than by anything else.
Likewise, on the more interested part. This is the best mentor Flower will have had in his career. It could be huge in helping him take his game to the next level.

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01-07-2013, 06:38 PM
  #129
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I'm not so sure Bennett is getting the Morrow treatment, with such a short camp there isn't going to be time for anyone to get the Morrow treatment.

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01-07-2013, 06:39 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I have a feeling Tangradi is going to get shafted once again. I am hoping he completely kills in the practice scrimmages, but he would have to be placed in a position to succeed for that to happen. And we all know how much Bylsma hates on Tangradi. He'll probably audition for the Malkin-Neal line by scrimmaging with Adams and Ferriero. Then, when Tangradi goes pointless, he'll be the camp disappointment.

Hope I'm wrong.
"Shafted" would imply that Tangradi has posted solid results, but still doesn't get an opportunity. He has posted mediocre results and that has not presented him an opportunity. He has made the bed he's sleeping in.

His .5 AHL pts / g isn't going to get him anywhere. Or would you rather look at his .125 NHL PPG? Or his -9 in WBS (almost team worst)?

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01-07-2013, 06:50 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by M0NTY26 View Post
Likewise, on the more interested part. This is the best mentor Flower will have had in his career. It could be huge in helping him take his game to the next level.
You mean to the bench?

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01-07-2013, 07:34 PM
  #132
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
"Shafted" would imply that Tangradi has posted solid results, but still doesn't get an opportunity. He has posted mediocre results and that has not presented him an opportunity. He has made the bed he's sleeping in.

His .5 AHL pts / g isn't going to get him anywhere. Or would you rather look at his .125 NHL PPG? Or his -9 in WBS (almost team worst)?
When he fails alongside Sid or Geno, then it'll be time to pull the plug. Until then, yes shafted is the right word.

Jeffrey isn't top-six forward material. Tangradi is.

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01-07-2013, 07:59 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
"Shafted" would imply that Tangradi has posted solid results, but still doesn't get an opportunity. He has posted mediocre results and that has not presented him an opportunity. He has made the bed he's sleeping in.

His .5 AHL pts / g isn't going to get him anywhere. Or would you rather look at his .125 NHL PPG? Or his -9 in WBS (almost team worst)?
All you ever talk about is stats. If you use your eyes instead you'd see that if he never plays with the right players for his style then it's all useless.

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01-07-2013, 08:05 PM
  #134
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I have soured on Tangradi big time but would like to see him finally get a legit shot with Malkin and Neal. If he can't find his way on that on that line in that role that's pretty much the end of his career with the Pens. I think his style lends well to a role on that line. We shall see...he hasn't been given a lot of chances and he really hasn't showed much at the NHL level to justify an expanded role, but sometimes a guy just needs to be playing with the right players. Not Craig Adams and Richard Park.

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01-07-2013, 08:08 PM
  #135
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I'm just happy that Malkin gets Neal and Crosby gets Kunitz. If Disco had worked that any differently, I'd be mad.

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01-07-2013, 08:12 PM
  #136
Zen Arcade
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Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
All you ever talk about is stats. If you use your eyes instead you'd see that if he never plays with the right players for his style then it's all useless.
You have a point, but his play in the AHL this year hasn't exactly inspired confidence.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
When he fails alongside Sid or Geno, then it'll be time to pull the plug. Until then, yes shafted is the right word.

Jeffrey isn't top-six forward material. Tangradi is.
Even at his best is he a top 6 guy? He's never had the stats to show that. I've always thought of him as a Cooke or Avery type with size but was hoping his scoring would pan out to be more like Malone or Ladd.

I'm not sure if its on him or the Pens but he seems a little directionless to me. The Pens seem to want to him to be a power forward and I just don't think that scoring is there. He can still be a valued 15G 15A guy with size and an abrassive game. I remember a few years ago the Pens said that they don't want him busting a hand fighting... is that really what they're telling him???

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01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
When he fails alongside Sid or Geno, then it'll be time to pull the plug. Until then, yes shafted is the right word.

Jeffrey isn't top-six forward material. Tangradi is.
Neither are. But Jeffrey's shown more offensive potential in the AHL and NHL than Tangradi has. Much more, in fact.

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Old
01-07-2013, 08:40 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
You have a point, but his play in the AHL this year hasn't exactly inspired confidence.
Alongside such elites as Phillipe Dupuis

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01-07-2013, 08:44 PM
  #140
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I think Tangradi tends to be a more intriguing prospect than Jeffrey due to his size. He's something that, in the perfect world, we could really use in our top six. A big guy who can hit and dominate on the boards, as well as be a PP net front presence. I just don't know if Tangradi will ever be that player most Pens fans are hoping he'll become.

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01-07-2013, 08:51 PM
  #141
Zen Arcade
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Originally Posted by Fordy View Post
Alongside such elites as Phillipe Dupuis
He hasn't really played with Dupuis though, he's gotten consistent first line ice time and first unit powerplay time and been given every opportunity to produce. It's not just about numbers, he's not playing smart hockey, he's mismanaging the puck and taking bad penalties.

I'm not a Tangradi hater or one of the people that's totally given up on him, but his play this year warrants criticism. Yeah, the other guys aren't exactly lighting it up either, but guys like Bennett and Holzapfel are still plugging away and helping the team consistently. Tangradi needs to do more.

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01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'm just happy that Malkin gets Neal and Crosby gets Kunitz. If Disco had worked that any differently, I'd be mad.
absolutely agree. I am very happy to hear that comment.

On Tangradi. I really think he's the kind of guy that could be a good 3rd wheel in the top 6. Is he as good of a player as TK? Probably not. Does that mean TK would be a better fit on the Geno-Neal line? I don't think so. Jeffrey is hard to really say, we've seen so little of him lately. I just want to see Tangradi given the chance. If he can't handle the spot, don't keep him there. But give him a few games to try it out. Tangradi has the potential to be a solid support player. His role in the AHL seems to be to carry the play of his line. He wouldn't need to do that here.

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01-07-2013, 09:38 PM
  #143
wgknestrick
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All you ever talk about is stats. If you use your eyes instead you'd see that if he never plays with the right players for his style then it's all useless.
The numbers always follow the leaders, while we all know what opinions are like. If he was doing the right things, there would be proof (stats) that backup an opinion giving that opinion credibility. (just like the stats are following BB this year indicating he might be good) If you look at everyone of our "good" players, there are significant numbers that validate they are "good" and just how good they are.

Everyone has their thing that they like to watch with players and I respect that. Just don't blame me when there is data that doesn't support your opinion. I make my opinions after watching games AND evaluating data. There are many times the eyes lie about players depending on what game you happen to see. You are only watching someone work by just watching the games, not actually seeing the product they are making with that work (stats).

For the record, Craig Adams has never really gotten a shot with Crosby. Does that mean he should get one and he is a diamond in the rough? He only plays with Asham and Vitale. We all know those guys aren't helping his point totals. This is the same logic being used with Tangradi and they are both equally illogical theories.

Until Tangradi starts doing well in the situations he is put in, why in the hell would the Pens promote him to have more responsibility? You wouldn't promote a bad employee under the notions of "he can't quite cut it as a welder, so lets promote him to shop foreman". If Tangradi starts doing well statistically, I will be the first one trumpeting his case for more ice time and a bigger role. Until then, he will have to earn it just like every other player. I can guarantee that he won't be gifted a top 6 position based on his play to date.

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01-07-2013, 09:46 PM
  #144
Zen Arcade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
The numbers always follow the leaders, while we all know what opinions are like. If he was doing the right things, there would be proof (stats) that backup an opinion giving that opinion credibility. (just like the stats are following BB this year indicating he might be good) If you look at everyone of our "good" players, there are significant numbers that validate they are "good" and just how good they are.

Everyone has their thing that they like to watch with players and I respect that. Just don't blame me when there is data that doesn't support your opinion. I make my opinions after watching games AND evaluating data. There are many times the eyes lie about players depending on what game you happen to see. You are only watching someone work by just watching the games, not actually seeing the product they are making with that work (stats).

For the record, Craig Adams has never really gotten a shot with Crosby. Does that mean he should get one and he is a diamond in the rough? He only plays with Asham and Vitale. We all know those guys aren't helping his point totals. This is the same logic being used with Tangradi and they are both equally illogical theories.

Until Tangradi starts doing well in the situations he is put in, why in the hell would the Pens promote him to have more responsibility? You wouldn't promote a bad employee under the notions of "he can't quite cut it as a welder, so lets promote him to shop foreman". If Tangradi starts doing well statistically, I will be the first one trumpeting his case for more ice time and a bigger role. Until then, he will have to earn it just like every other player. I can guarantee that he won't be gifted a top 6 position based on his play to date.
I see both sides to the argument, but it really is tough to see what you have in Tangradi without him getting a look with better players. It's a catch 22 though, because he may not be able to handle the added responsibility, especially defensively.

I don't think he'll ever produce much on a line with guys like Vitale and Adams though, because his game is predicated on dishing the puck and driving the net. When you do that with Adams, he's just going to throw the puck around the boards.

He's kind of stuck in limbo at this point. I don't really know what to do with him.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:01 PM
  #145
Wes C Addle
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Tangradi has been a top 6 forward at every level of hockey he's played at, including the AHL. He may not be that at the NHL level, but wouldn't it be worthwhile to find that out by ya know, actually trying him in the top 6 in the NHL? And by trying, I mean more than a shift a game. If he gets his shot and it doesn't pan out, so be it, but at least it'll be settled.

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01-07-2013, 10:04 PM
  #146
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If Rob Rossi is to be believed the main candidates to play with Malkin and Neal are Cooke, Kennedy and Glass?!?

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01-07-2013, 10:06 PM
  #147
Randy Butternubs
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If Rob Rossi is to be believed the main candidates to play with Malkin and Neal are Cooke, Kennedy and Glass?!?
God I hope not.

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01-07-2013, 10:14 PM
  #148
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I seriously hope Tangradi proves me wrong and earns himself a Top 6 spot but...I just don't think its there. No doubt he needs the time to develop...but a shorted 48 game season is not the time to do it. Had this been Oct/Nov...sure, toss him on for 10 games and see how he does. 48 games where a losing streak is absolutely unacceptable...no.

2-3 games MAX...no chemisty, buh bye. Cooke is Top 6 enough for that line in a way that Dupuis is top 6 enough for Crosby's line. Hopefully Shero can make something happen in the trade market.

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:16 PM
  #149
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It's a no brainer to have Geno's LW be the question mark going into this season. Cooke can certainly be a stopgap. Glass in certain situations. I like the idea of moving Sutter up occasionally especially if he's winning draws.

Tangradi is going to have his chance to fill a top 9 spot. If he doesn't, he's done here.

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01-07-2013, 10:28 PM
  #150
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If we're using Cooke as a stopgap in the top 6 I'd rather see him on Crosby's line. We have Kennedy, Tangradi, Sutter, Cooke, Jeffrey, and possibly Bennett to work with. Just throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks.

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