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Raymond and a top-6 d-man to Ottawa

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:29 PM
  #51
Ho Borvat
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Things that are often overlooked:

While Ballard is overpaid, we really don't have someone to step into his spot.
In a Ballard trade, we would either need to get a cheaper, yet very solid bottom pairing d-man or an asset that could be flipped for one (pick/prospect).

Raymond is on the low end of the payscale for players like him. I would say slightly below market value (some may disagree, but defs not overpaid).
- Kassian hasn't shown enough to "lock down" a roster spot (imo) and again we lack a ready replacement.
- Team need is a solid 3C (think Bozak/Smith caliber) to make it worth movin him.


While these 2 players are popular trade bait, we need to remember Van is likely a better team with them than without them.

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:30 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by couture23 View Post
In this draft a 2nd for Ballard would be incredibly stupid. There are many instances where a first round talent could slip to the second round, and this is a deep draft after all.
I know this is hyped as a deep draft, but really i don't see Ottawa picking in the 1st half of the draft so its still gonna be a mid-late 2nd.

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01-07-2013, 02:56 PM
  #53
The Turret
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Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Ottawa trade their 2nd rounder this year for Ben Bishop?

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01-07-2013, 02:58 PM
  #54
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we dont even have a 2nd.

with two more years at 4.2 and how he's played recently, a third should be more than enough for keith ballard.

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01-07-2013, 03:14 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
What about a Mr. Edler.... What kind of package would it take to get him out of Vancouver
Too high to be realistic. Like many Canucks fans have posted, we can't move him for futures, and even if he is hell bent on testing free agency, he's too valuable to surrender, even for a shortened season, without getting a roster improvement back elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Hutz View Post
Sadly, Foligno's not with us anymore.
That was poorly worded, I heard Methot should work out nicely though at least.

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Originally Posted by Beville View Post
Raymond for Condra + 3rd. DEAL.
Deal.

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Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
Wow you over-value your players so much.
Edler is a top pairing Dman, and while he may not be the same calibre as Karlsson, he's still a top 25-30 defenseman in this league. We can't afford to move him lightly.

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Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
We can literally take Ballard for a pick if you need cap relief.
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
this. no room for raymond anyways. what would it take in terms of a pick?
A second, which I didn't think Ottawa had this year, could do it. I'd say maybe a third+, but we've already had an offer for Raymond involving that pick in this thread.

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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
I'd seriously consider flipping Michalek for Edler if we could guarantee Edler re-ups here.
If there was a guarenteed, we'd need something bigger, and I love Michalek's game.

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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
we dont even have a 2nd.

with two more years at 4.2 and how he's played recently, a third should be more than enough for keith ballard.
Thought so.

He's played much better last year, more like his usual self. That first year was rough. If the offer is a firm third round pick, I'd rather roll the dice and see how he plays this year, and then in the off season, if the pick is there, great, if not, we buy him out (if needed, we're well under the cap for next season, barring Edler needing mad money). He's over paid, but if we're giving equal weight to each season, he's not underperforming terribly after last year, he just needs more ice time with so many better defenders (Edler, Hamhuis, Ehrhoff, Mitchell now Garrison) all on the left hand side.

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:20 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Fair enough. Who was that for, not Bishop I don't think, was it Turris?
We traded our 2012 2nd along with Rundblad for Turris.

Our 2013 2nd went to St. Louis for Bishop.

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:32 PM
  #57
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I think Murray would do anything short of murder to aquire a re-signed Edler.

Think of the package we were offering for Nash (+ maybe a little more because Alex isnt as old)

What was the package again?

Foligno / Zibanejad / 1st?

I would easily do Zibanejad / 1st / Smith / and maybe something like Da Costa or Weircoch to make up the difference between Smith and Foligno (if there is one, which I would say is minimal)

The last piece could be switched out or re-arranged, or even thrown out.

I dont know if you Vancouver fans would go for it considering a lot of it is untapped potential, hell even my fellow sen fans could think its too much, but its worth a shot, and I think we have the prospect depth to replace what was lost.

It fills your hole at 3c with either Smith or Zib, who are both capable 3rd liners with upside. Smith is widely regarded as a fan favorite, and I remember you Van fans salivating over him a couple times in the past haha. Zib could even play with the Sedins to replace Burrows since hes up there in age. The 1st should be around 15, which is a damn good asset in this draft, and Weir or Da Costa are both about NHl ready and cheap.

Zib / Smith / 1st / mid level prospect

For

Edler (re-signed at around 7 mil for a couple years) and Raymond?

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:54 PM
  #58
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Can't trade Edler for futures & to be honest I can't see how we trade him without getting a dman back. We usually go through 8 dmen a year & Edler is easily #2 on that list.


FAR more likely we trade you Ballard for a 3rd round pick & use Ballard's money to sign Edler.

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Old
01-07-2013, 06:48 PM
  #59
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Can't see the Canucks moving Edler at this point, the window is seriously closing for the team, well, at least starting to close. The Canucks can literally lose Ballard for nothing as they have Tanev ready to take over, but that being said, the Canucks are in win now phase, Ballard has to bring back at least a 2nd or Ballard + for a 3rd line center (or even a 2nd line center until Kesler returns to form

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01-07-2013, 06:55 PM
  #60
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I could see Ballard being move quite easily now that the team thats trading the player can keep salary.

If Vancouver absorbs 2 million a year of Keith's salary (meaning hes only paid 2.2 per) I could see him being traded quite easily to a team that doesnt spend to the cap.

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01-07-2013, 07:48 PM
  #61
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Ballard for a pick or mid-level prospect makes sense. Sens can absorb his cap hit for this year and next without too much difficulty, and need a solid NHL defenceman.

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:03 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derriko View Post
I could see Ballard being move quite easily now that the team thats trading the player can keep salary.

If Vancouver absorbs 2 million a year of Keith's salary (meaning hes only paid 2.2 per) I could see him being traded quite easily to a team that doesnt spend to the cap.
vancouver is looking to win the cup within the next two years. They're not absorbing any cap space. They'd rather just buy him out under amnesty this summer.

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01-07-2013, 09:29 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
Would hate to lose Ballard, so underrated it is criminal. Edler could be had for the right price, but it would require a lot of ifs and buts.
I agree with this.

If the deal for Raymond and Ballard doesn't help us address a need, and is more-less just a salary dump on our end, we aren't interested.

I have no issue trading Raymond but Ballard stays right now unless the deal helps us.

I don't know enough about players like Condra & De Costa to make a fair assessment for my own proposal.

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01-07-2013, 10:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
vancouver is looking to win the cup within the next two years. They're not absorbing any cap space. They'd rather just buy him out under amnesty this summer.
So if you absorb the salary do you also have to absorb the cap space? I haven't been able to determine exactly how this works yet.

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Old
01-08-2013, 01:08 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I agree with this.

If the deal for Raymond and Ballard doesn't help us address a need, and is more-less just a salary dump on our end, we aren't interested.

I have no issue trading Raymond but Ballard stays right now unless the deal helps us.

I don't know enough about players like Condra & De Costa to make a fair assessment for my own proposal.
Condra is a smaller, slightly dulled Hansen. If we move someone like Higgins up to the second line, Condra could fill in on the third. Definite bottom six guy for now, but I see potential to be a very good bottom six player.

De Costa hasn't impressed me, but then again I don't follow the Sens as exhaustively as the Canucks, and I will confess I may be missing something.

Raymond for Condra and a third I think I read, I'd still be game for that.

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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
So if you absorb the salary do you also have to absorb the cap space? I haven't been able to determine exactly how this works yet.
The wording I read seemed to be either, or, or both. Unless someone can correct me.

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Old
01-08-2013, 01:12 AM
  #66
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Da Costa will be like a poor man Wellwood, maybe if everything works out almost as good as him one day, a top 6 or bust kind of guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by derriko View Post
I would easily do Zibanejad / 1st / Smith / and maybe something like Da Costa or Weircoch to make up the difference between Smith and Foligno (if there is one, which I would say is minimal)
If Sens ever offer Zibanejad/1st/Smith/Weircoch, I don't think they'll be happy, probably wince even for a signed Edler. Those aren't random pieces at all. Bryan has no problem giving up favourite pieces trading for a player he likes though.


Last edited by HavlatMach9: 01-08-2013 at 01:19 AM.
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Old
01-08-2013, 01:16 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Da Costa will be like a poor man Wellwood, maybe if everything works out almost as good as him one day, a top 6 or bust kind of guy.
Sort of thought so. He'd be great on the right team, but alas, I don't think the Canucks are that team.

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01-08-2013, 02:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Da Costa will be like a poor man Wellwood.
K, that's all I need to see.

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Old
01-08-2013, 02:13 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
What about a Mr. Edler.... What kind of package would it take to get him out of Vancouver
Michalek, who I doubt you guys want to move.

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01-08-2013, 02:16 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehner View Post
Wow you over-value your players so much.
How so? Edler is arguably our best defenseman. UFA or not, we have a high probability of resigning him and his departure would leave a notable hole in our roster. If we are going to gamble that, then I'd want someone who makes a big impact in addressing another need. Michalek does precisely that. I do not expect Ottawa to actually offer him though.

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01-08-2013, 02:23 AM
  #71
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I think, barring an overpayment before the trade deadline, Ballard goes to OTT or NYI in the offseason. Makes a lot of sense as far as fit goes.

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01-08-2013, 03:00 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I think, barring an overpayment before the trade deadline, Ballard goes to OTT or NYI in the offseason. Makes a lot of sense as far as fit goes.
It only makes sense if Edler re-signs and we need the cap space. If that doesn't happen Ballard is going nowhere. Let's not forget that besides Bieksa, Ballard is the only defenceman we have who stands up for teammates and is willing to drop the mitts (not to mention his youtube videos). Ticks me off when our fans call him overpaid, we acquired the cost another team paid for. His current role on the Canucks doesn't translate but on any other squad, he is worth the scratch.

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Old
01-08-2013, 03:42 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Michalek, who I doubt you guys want to move.
I wouldn't hate to move Michalek. Particularly for Edler. Are you saying that would be the whole package, or would there be more?

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Old
01-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #74
derriko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
vancouver is looking to win the cup within the next two years. They're not absorbing any cap space. They'd rather just buy him out under amnesty this summer.
Hmm, I wasnt aware that if they keep salary, it counts against the cap. I thought it would be just like adding cash.

And Da Costa is not like Wellwood haha. Wellwood is a horrible defensive player. SDC is at least a capable defender. Da Costa, If I were to compare his style, would be like David Desharnais. Im not saying Stephane will be a 60 point player, but his potential is as an offensively talented, yet undersized playmaking 2c.

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