HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > International Tournaments
International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Greatest world junior team ever?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2013, 12:37 AM
  #51
Patchey*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gaylord, Michigan
Country: United States
Posts: 12,668
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchy View Post
All that matters is that Canada didn't get a medal this year.

The past is over. You're not the best anymore.
I don't like you, your opinion, OR your name.

Patchey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #52
Darth Handsome
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 149
vCash: 500
Relative to its competition, that '05 team was the best hockey team I've ever seen.

Darth Handsome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 06:45 PM
  #53
fly4apuckguy
Mr. Old School
 
fly4apuckguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamonDRW View Post
Showed mercy? I remember that gold medal game, and yes, Canada did dominate but what kind of mercy you're talking about? Did USA team showed mercy three days ago by beating Canada 5-1? No, but the domination was really comparable to that 2005 gold medal game as Canada did nothing in the whole game just like Russians in 2005.
I have that game recorded, and watch it every now and then (especially after we lose out like this year).

They let up, no question. If they had put the foot on the gas, they could have embarrassed the Russians even more. 6-1 was a flattering score. All you need to do is look at the Russian bench in the second period to know that they were terrified to come out for the third period.

fly4apuckguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 08:45 PM
  #54
Momesso
Registered User
 
Momesso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Canada in 2005 and anyone that remembers that tournament won't disagree. This is just one of those cases where the answer is obvious.

Canada 2005 vs. other countries, the score and how much they outshot them

Slovakia 7-3 (36-23)
Sweden 8-1 (38-14)
Germany 9-0 (52-17)
Finland 8-1 (43-19)
Czech 3-1 (semis) (42-11)
Russia 6-1 (Gold) (32-19)


Canada 1995 vs. other countries

Ukraine 7-1
Gremany 9-1
USA 6-3
Czech 7-5
Finland 6-4
Russia 8-5
Sweden 4-3

USSR 1989 vs. other countries

West Germany 15-0
USA 4-2
Swedn 3-2
Norway 10-0
Finland 9-3
Czech 3-5 (lost the game)
Canada 7-2

In total:
Canada 2005 6-0-0
Canada 1995 7-0-0
Russia 1989 6-1-0

Goal differential:
Canada 2005 41-7
Canada 1995 49-22
Russia 1989 51-14

There are other teams that were great too. 1978 Russia, 1988 Canada for example. But the problem with these teams is that Russia lost a game in 1978, just like 1989 and Canada in 1988 didn't really dominate and pound the other teams. They won a lot of tight games but didn't run the team into the ground.

I am sorry, but there has never been another team like Canada in 2005. I've never seen it in my life. You shouldn't be beating teams like Finland and Sweden 8-1, but they did. The only game that was relatively close was the Czech game and Canada outshot them by a 4 to 1 margin. This is a team that steamrolled the Russians with Ovechkin and Malkin and Radulov. They won 6-1 and did this in the first two periods. They literally could have won the game 10-1 but they showed mercy. Who the heck shows mercy in a Gold medal game? That's just dominance.

The 2005 team has a few potential HHOFers: Crosby, Getzlaf, Perry, Weber. Not to mention a slew of guys who have already won the Olympic gold and the Stanley Cup. They have two Hart trophy winners already. They have what should have been a Norris winner by now (Weber). This team cut Mike Green for crying out loud. They cut him!

I don't think we'll ever see a team like this again. The 2003 draft was extremely deep and the lockout fell at the perfect time. I've never seen a team dominate a tournament like this in my life. Sorry, but if anyone disagrees this is one of those times where there is only one right answer.


Excellent post.

Momesso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 08:55 PM
  #55
Machinehead
Brauch und Stolz
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: Germany
Posts: 33,199
vCash: 500
It's pretty ridiculous. The US team this year put up very dominant numbers: 34 GF, 9 GA. Compare that to Canada in '05: 41 GF, 7 GA.

Not only did they dominate their own tournament, they statistically outclass other gold medal teams.

Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:02 PM
  #56
fly4apuckguy
Mr. Old School
 
fly4apuckguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
It's pretty ridiculous. The US team this year put up very dominant numbers: 34 GF, 9 GA. Compare that to Canada in '05: 41 GF, 7 GA.

Not only did they dominate their own tournament, they statistically outclass other gold medal teams.
The team from Canada was undefeated too.

fly4apuckguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:15 PM
  #57
Skobel24
GO IGGY GO!
 
Skobel24's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,951
vCash: 50
Was looking at some other teams, and came across what was possibly the most one sided hockey game ever played. 1993 WJC, Sweden over Japan, 20-1

Skobel24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:27 PM
  #58
SoundAndFury
Registered User
 
SoundAndFury's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
Was looking at some other teams, and came across what was possibly the most one sided hockey game ever played. 1993 WJC, Sweden over Japan, 20-1
Kazakhstan beat Thailand 52-1 in 2007 Asian Games, so no, it's not the most one sided ever.

What's more interesting for me is that the greatest team ever still had 8 players (more than 1/3) who didn't make it into the NHL.

SoundAndFury is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
  #59
Skobel24
GO IGGY GO!
 
Skobel24's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,951
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
What's more interesting for me is that the greatest team ever still had 8 players (more than 1/3) who didn't make it into the NHL.
One word. Development. Just because they didn't make the NHL, doesn't mean they weren't some of the best young players at the time.

Skobel24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:44 PM
  #60
Ace36758
Registered User
 
Ace36758's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Northern Ireland
Posts: 483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
Kazakhstan beat Thailand 52-1 in 2007 Asian Games, so no, it's not the most one sided ever.

What's more interesting for me is that the greatest team ever still had 8 players (more than 1/3) who didn't make it into the NHL.
I do wonder sometimes, when scores are that lopsided, how the other team still managed to score 1 goal.

Ace36758 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 09:54 PM
  #61
Homegrown Kings
ft. Philly & Lumbus
 
Homegrown Kings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PNW
Country: United States
Posts: 2,150
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Definitely, although looking back at their goaltenders, yuck.
Glass is in the KHL and no idea about that other guy. Though with Sutter coaching and that D in front, I suppose it didn't really matter who they had in net.

I've followed the tournament for a decade and a half now, and Canada in 2005 is definitely the greatest team I've ever witnessed. Incredible how much success most of that team has gone on to have.

Homegrown Kings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-07-2013, 10:00 PM
  #62
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,267
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
Russia's 05 team looks pretty damn good on paper too.
They did, and get got absolutely demolished by Canada's team. It's not even close, Canada 05 WJC was the best WJC team ever.

__________________
http://www.vancitynitetours.com
y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 02:06 AM
  #63
Zine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 8,449
vCash: 500
Some of the 1980s Soviet team were pretty darn dominant.

1977 7-0 gf 51 ga 19
1986 7-0 gf 42 ga 14
1980 5-0 gf 24 ga 9
1983 7-0 gf 50- ga 15
1986 7-0 gf 42 ga 15

Zine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 06:46 AM
  #64
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
They did, and get got absolutely demolished by Canada's team. It's not even close, Canada 05 WJC was the best WJC team ever.
If you could have used all eligible players in the US for the 2003-04 WJC, the US team would have been
serious competition for the 2004-05 Canadian team.

G - Howard

D - Wisniewski - Byfuglien
Suter - Stuart
Richmond- Carle


F - Parise - Pavelski - Callahan
Booth - Kesler - Eaves
Brown - Stastny - Backes
Boyle - Stirling - Miller

Canada gets the clear advantage in 3rd D pairing and 4th line, but everywhere else is very competitive
I like Canada overall obviously but they aren't rolling over that 2003-04 squad, no way.


Last edited by doakacola*: 01-08-2013 at 07:50 AM.
doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:47 AM
  #65
fly4apuckguy
Mr. Old School
 
fly4apuckguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
If you could have used all eligible players in the US for the 2003-04 WJC, the US team would have been
serious competition for the 2004-05 Canadian team.

G - Howard

D - Wisniewski - Byfuglien
Suter - Stuart
Hunwick - Carle


F - Parise - Pavelski - Callahan
Booth - Kesler - Eaves
Brown - Stastny - Backes
Boyle - Dowell - Miller

Canada gets the clear advantage in 3rd D pairing and 4th line, but everywhere else is very competitive
I like Canada overall obviously but they aren't rolling over that 2003-04 squad, no way.
I would guess that if we started doing these "what-if" scenarios, there would be some pretty amazing Team Canadas that were never assembled that we could look at and say the same. Maybe some that on paper would even look like they would crush the 2005 team, I am guessing. If you look at Crosby alone, he was not able to play in this tournament in his two oldest years. How dominant would he have been as a 19 year old? Wow, to consider it...

The truth is, speculation is just...speculation. There have been a number of paper teams that looked like sure things that failed miserably (Team Canada 2013 comes to mind, if we need a recent reference). It is what a team manages to do when it is ACTUALLY put together that counts. The 2005 team had chemistry AND unbelievable talent, and they put it all together for the most dominant victory that I have seen since I started watching this tournament closely in 1992.

fly4apuckguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:55 AM
  #66
SiouxPride
Registered User
 
SiouxPride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: WINNIPEG!
Country: Canada
Posts: 941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fan Of Every Anton View Post
Glass is in the KHL and no idea about that other guy. Though with Sutter coaching and that D in front, I suppose it didn't really matter who they had in net.

I've followed the tournament for a decade and a half now, and Canada in 2005 is definitely the greatest team I've ever witnessed. Incredible how much success most of that team has gone on to have.
Rejean Beauchemin has played mostly in the ECHL, posting some pretty decent numbers. This season I am not positive what he is doing, however I will ask his sister this week. Helast played in the Central Hockey League for the Allen Americans.

SiouxPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:00 AM
  #67
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I would guess that if we started doing these "what-if" scenarios, there would be some pretty amazing Team Canadas that were never assembled that we could look at and say the same. Maybe some that on paper would even look like they would crush the 2005 team, I am guessing. If you look at Crosby alone, he was not able to play in this tournament in his two oldest years. How dominant would he have been as a 19 year old? Wow, to consider it...

The truth is, speculation is just...speculation. There have been a number of paper teams that looked like sure things that failed miserably (Team Canada 2013 comes to mind, if we need a recent reference). It is what a team manages to do when it is ACTUALLY put together that counts. The 2005 team had chemistry AND unbelievable talent, and they put it all together for the most dominant victory that I have seen since I started watching this tournament closely in 1992.
I don 't disagree with you. My point is that Canada didn't make many mistakes with the 2005 roster,
while in retrospect the US made at least four errors in selections. Dustin Byfuglien over Likens is the first, while David Backes, Ryan Callahan and Joe Pavelski all were better than Murray, Wiener, Moore and Dowell.

In fact Ill say without question the elite 1984 born US kids were certainly better than Canada. It might be the only birth year where IMO there was a decent US edge.


Last edited by doakacola*: 01-08-2013 at 08:05 AM.
doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:04 AM
  #68
SiouxPride
Registered User
 
SiouxPride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: WINNIPEG!
Country: Canada
Posts: 941
vCash: 500
It's hard not to, but I dont think you should look at what the players have done in the NHL. It has nothing to do with what they brought during the tournaments. After reading this, Maybe we need to discuss WHAT IT IS, that makes a team superior. Because clearly simply destroying teams and winning gold and having all these pro players hit all star status, isnt making anything easier. Thoughts?

SiouxPride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:11 AM
  #69
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiouxPride View Post
It's hard not to, but I dont think you should look at what the players have done in the NHL. It has nothing to do with what they brought during the tournaments. After reading this, Maybe we need to discuss WHAT IT IS, that makes a team superior. Because clearly simply destroying teams and winning gold and having all these pro players hit all star status, isnt making anything easier. Thoughts?
You can 't have it both ways. When the US or Russia wins Canadians always play the what if we had card. When I do it in this thread by assembling a team (essentially contains the top 9 2010 US Olympic Team forwards) you start saying you cant use the what if arguments. Sorry but we both know now that
US team I put together would be competitive in a 7 game series with Team Canada.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:42 AM
  #70
daver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
You can 't have it both ways. When the US or Russia wins Canadians always play the what if we had card. When I do it in this thread by assembling a team (essentially contains the top 9 2010 US Olympic Team forwards) you start saying you cant use the what if arguments. Sorry but we both know now that
US team I put together would be competitive in a 7 game series with Team Canada.
There's a significant difference between players not being available to play because they are essentially too good versus retrospectively replacing players as you are for the 2004 US team.

In the former case, you are pushing out the lowest players on the depth chart while in the latter case it's very debatable whether the others would have made a difference or made the team worse. And as someone pointed out, could you imagine the 2007 Canadian team with the best hockey player in the world on it.

daver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 10:29 PM
  #71
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,133
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchy View Post
All that matters is that Canada didn't get a medal this year.

The past is over. You're not the best anymore.
We just finally ended a streak where we medalled in the past 14 tournaments up until now. Then we finished 8th in 1998 and the 5 gold before that. What country is even close to that in the past two decades? Just saying.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:16 PM
  #72
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
 
Uncle Rotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Some of the 1980s Soviet team were pretty darn dominant.

1977 7-0 gf 51 ga 19
Team with Makarov & Fetisov. Strangely, their closest game was 2-1 over West Germany

Uncle Rotter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2013, 02:25 AM
  #73
doakacola*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by daver View Post
There's a significant difference between players not being available to play because they are essentially too good versus retrospectively replacing players as you are for the 2004 US team.

In the former case, you are pushing out the lowest players on the depth chart while in the latter case it's very debatable whether the others would have made a difference or made the team worse. And as someone pointed out, could you imagine the 2007 Canadian team with the best hockey player in the world on it.
My point is simple. The available talent to the US Jr. Team for the 2003-04 team would have
been challenging competition to the 2005 Canada team. You Canadians just cant accept
that even your 2005 "Dream" team could be challenged by my 2004 US team.

The US team built around Howard, Suter, Buff, Parise, Kesler, Brown, Backes & Booth
would stand up to 2005 Canada well.

In fact the US team that won gold and beat the guts of your 2005 team was a mix of an A and
B US team.

doakacola* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2013, 02:58 AM
  #74
drinking bleach irl
p trendy tbh
 
drinking bleach irl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Virginia
Country: Ras al-Khaimah
Posts: 10,911
vCash: 300
Second best ever to the 1983 Soviets for my money.

drinking bleach irl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2013, 07:26 AM
  #75
daver
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowline View Post
My point is simple. The available talent to the US Jr. Team for the 2003-04 team would have
been challenging competition to the 2005 Canada team. You Canadians just cant accept
that even your 2005 "Dream" team could be challenged by my 2004 US team.

The US team built around Howard, Suter, Buff, Parise, Kesler, Brown, Backes & Booth
would stand up to 2005 Canada well.

In fact the US team that won gold and beat the guts of your 2005 team was a mix of an A and
B US team.
You would be more credible if you did not generalize a whole country.

This debate should start and end with what happened on the ice but if you want to play the "what if" game....

The 04 US team was your A team. There were no players that were not eligible to play because of commitments to their club team. The fact that a few players who developed into better NHL players is irrelevant. If you want to get into the "what if" game, there are plenty of other versions of Team Canada that would have been better than the 04 US team based simply on the fact that players who did not play were "too good" for the team, not because they were borderline like the four you mentioned were missing from the 04 team.

daver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.