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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
01-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by hockeylife9 View Post
I have a question. GJ is not the owner of PHX as of right now. So technically he should not be able to see the terms of the CBA as only the 30 owners (or 29 I guess) have been faxed a copy. Or is GB giving him special treatment (on top of the 18-19 months he's already had to get ***** done) because he may buy the Coyotes? Without special treatment, I would imagine the only way he could see the full terms is if he's still a part owner in SJ. But then wouldn't that make him ineligible to buy PHX?
If you are in a process to purchase a team, you would have access to the document under a non disclosure agreement at the very least not to mention that you would be able to see all player contracts, financial details of the organization etc.

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01-08-2013, 12:39 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by hockeylife9 View Post
I have a question. GJ is not the owner of PHX as of right now. So technically he should not be able to see the terms of the CBA as only the 30 owners (or 29 I guess) have been faxed a copy. Or is GB giving him special treatment (on top of the 18-19 months he's already had to get ***** done) because he may buy the Coyotes? Without special treatment, I would imagine the only way he could see the full terms is if he's still a part owner in SJ. But then wouldn't that make him ineligible to buy PHX?
At one time Jamison said he would sell his shares in the SJ Sharks, after he became the owner of the Coyotes. Just a guess, but I would imagine Jamison is still holding on to those shares, just incase .

But, regardless, I would imagine he has access to the info he needs and his partners need.

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01-08-2013, 01:12 PM
  #603
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There's supposed to be $200M more being slathered around. Is none of that going to the Coyotes?
PHX received $14MM last year! Would be maybe half of that under the new agreement!

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01-08-2013, 01:18 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
But, regardless, I would imagine he has access to the info he needs and his partners need.
Undoubtedly. As a former member of the NHL Executive Committee and as I understand it still minority share holder in San Jose', combined with his tracking of the Coyotes purchase, absolutely he'd have access & be privy to all financials & details of the CBA.

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01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #605
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PHX received $14MM last year! Would be maybe half of that under the new agreement!
If Phoenix is worse off under the new CBA than it was under the previous CBA, Bettman should be summarily fired. I find it difficult to believe that is the case.

I guess we'll have to wait until the final wording is revealed.

 
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01-08-2013, 02:06 PM
  #606
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If Phoenix is worse off under the new CBA than it was under the previous CBA, Bettman should be summarily fired. I find it difficult to believe that is the case.... I guess we'll have to wait until the final wording is revealed.
Ya, I agree, though Im also of the mind that he shouldve fallen on his sword over the loss of Atlanta (if not earlier) but thats another story altogether. If the increase in RS by $200M is nothing more than smoke & mirrors, plz, GTFO already. As the Devil is in the Details, until the actual documents are released, one would naturally assume the increase would benefit Phoenix. However, in the world of the NHL & their Chocolate Factory, what goes in through receiving does not necessarily mean that what comes out of shipping is in the least bit wholesome, helpful or even true. Lovely box marked Godiva, you open it to find re-gifted loosely packed long since past their expiry date Goldfish Crackers...

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01-08-2013, 02:14 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
If Phoenix is worse off under the new CBA than it was under the previous CBA, Bettman should be summarily fired. I find it difficult to believe that is the case.

I guess we'll have to wait until the final wording is revealed.
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, I agree, though Im also of the mind that he shouldve fallen on his sword over the loss of Atlanta (if not earlier) but thats another story altogether. If the increase in RS by $200M is nothing more than smoke & mirrors, plz, GTFO already. As the Devil is in the Details, until the actual documents are released, one would naturally assume the increase would benefit Phoenix. However, in the world of the NHL & their Chocolate Factory, what goes in through receiving does not necessarily mean that what comes out of shipping is in the least bit wholesome, helpful or even true. Lovely box marked Godiva, you open it to find re-gifted & stale loosely packed Goldfish Crackers...
The way I understand, the new CBA brings two changes as far as revenue sharing.
1) More money (Up to $200M and not $100M + $200M).
2) Rules to get access to RS (make them less strict)

So, based on that, if lets say in 2011-2012 5 teams were sharing a $150M pie (i think it was bigger than that) it makes a $30M pie parts per team.

But with CBA changes even if the pie is $200M, if 5 more teams get to share that pie, you now get $20M pie parts.

In the end, a team that was not able to get into RS last season but was close to it, WILL definitly benefit from this change, but a team that did benefit from RS in 2011-12, might see their part grow as low as a $1M or even go lower than expected.

Sources I found while googling (not worth posting) say that RS for 2011-2012 was near $180-190M so...a $10M increase, if you add 1 extra team to the RS group...it does not gives much more money.

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01-08-2013, 02:26 PM
  #608
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The way I understand, the new CBA brings two changes as far as revenue sharing.
Thanks for the detailed response. I understand what you guys are saying, and it does appear consistent with what has been reported.

I guess what I'm saying is that in my mind our understanding of what has been reported *must* be wrong in some way. Because it is simply unfathomable to me that we lost a full season last CBA to get "cost certainty" and another half season this CBA to get "cost reduction" - and the worst-off teams are possibly even more worse off than before!

This just can't be right...and I say this as a contractionista who would love to see a 20 team league...(with 20 team B & C leagues with promo/relegation and...oh never mind...)

Unless they already know that Phoenix is being relocated to a stronger market...

 
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01-08-2013, 02:27 PM
  #609
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Ya, I agree, though Im also of the mind that he shouldve fallen on his sword over the loss of Atlanta (if not earlier) but thats another story altogether. If the increase in RS by $200M is nothing more than smoke & mirrors, plz, GTFO already. As the Devil is in the Details, until the actual documents are released, one would naturally assume the increase would benefit Phoenix. However, in the world of the NHL & their Chocolate Factory, what goes in through receiving does not necessarily mean that what comes out of shipping is in the least bit wholesome, helpful or even true. Lovely box marked Godiva, you open it to find re-gifted loosely packed long since past their expiry date Goldfish Crackers...
Yup... those teams expecting a windfall via revenue sharing could end up sharing a rhubarb pie instead of a nice cherry pie.

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01-08-2013, 02:28 PM
  #610
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Seasons come and go, Stanley Cup Champs come and go, Lockouts come and go,... but the Phoenix threads live on for eternity.

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01-08-2013, 02:59 PM
  #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
This just can't be right...
... the Owls are not what they seem Daddyo'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
...teams expecting a windfall via revenue sharing could end up sharing a rhubarb pie instead of a nice cherry pie.
Nothing like a nice piece of Cherry Pie, is there Agent Cooper....


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01-08-2013, 03:08 PM
  #612
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... the Owls are not what they seem Daddyo'.
A family of them moved into the woods next to the house. Damn freaky birds, at 2AM on a moonless night.

Am I completely out to lunch here? Is it possible Phoenix has been sacrificed?

 
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01-08-2013, 03:14 PM
  #613
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I wonder if GB has secret intentions to move the team to a different market, but is ensuring that the team itself and survive in Phoenix for several more years until another market/arena is ready to take an NHL team.

Seattle still is not an option in the short term as the NBA needs to sledgehammer a team for relocation to Seattle, afterwhich an arena can then be constructed...

Quebec is not an option short term because a new arena is currently under construction...

Which leaves... Markham, and as far as I know, the arena there is still in blueprints, not physically started...

Phoenix, at the moment, has an arena, a hardcore fan base, and many facilities around it to maintain business, even if that means it is a break even business....

I sincerely believe the league is waiting for the pieces to fall into place to move this team. Jamison may just be a cover, a front if you will, to "hold" the team temporarily and get it off the leagues back.

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01-08-2013, 03:17 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
A family of them moved into the woods next to the house. Damn freaky birds, at 2AM on a moonless night.... Am I completely out to lunch here? Is it possible Phoenix has been sacrificed?
Uh oh. I do hope you realize the term is code for "Aliens". Last thing people seem to remember peering through their bedroom windows before... but I digress. And ya, I think this is gonna go full on weird, and if it doesnt, I'll make sure it does.

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01-08-2013, 03:20 PM
  #615
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Thanks for the detailed response. I understand what you guys are saying, and it does appear consistent with what has been reported.

I guess what I'm saying is that in my mind our understanding of what has been reported *must* be wrong in some way. Because it is simply unfathomable to me that we lost a full season last CBA to get "cost certainty" and another half season this CBA to get "cost reduction" - and the worst-off teams are possibly even more worse off than before!

This just can't be right...and I say this as a contractionista who would love to see a 20 team league...(with 20 team B & C leagues with promo/relegation and...oh never mind...)

Unless they already know that Phoenix is being relocated to a stronger market...
Sadly tho, all I am reading is that people cannot see any difference between what was on the negotiation table back in mid-October which would have gave us a 82-games season and the one they just signed...so I would not be surprised that in the end, we lost half a season for peanuts.

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01-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #616
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And ya, I think this is gonna go full on weird, and if it doesnt, I'll make sure it does.
Lynch is supposedly in talks to reboot that series this fall...he doesn't strike me as the kind of dude who normalizes with time...

 
Old
01-08-2013, 03:41 PM
  #617
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Any more news from Sunnucks on Gramps Jamison's short comings $$?

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01-08-2013, 03:57 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I wonder if GB has secret intentions to move the team to a different market, but is ensuring that the team itself and survive in Phoenix for several more years until another market/arena is ready to take an NHL team.

Seattle still is not an option in the short term as the NBA needs to sledgehammer a team for relocation to Seattle, afterwhich an arena can then be constructed...

Quebec is not an option short term because a new arena is currently under construction...

Which leaves... Markham, and as far as I know, the arena there is still in blueprints, not physically started...

Phoenix, at the moment, has an arena, a hardcore fan base, and many facilities around it to maintain business, even if that means it is a break even business....

I sincerely believe the league is waiting for the pieces to fall into place to move this team. Jamison may just be a cover, a front if you will, to "hold" the team temporarily and get it off the leagues back.
the problem azaloum,, is that Phoenix has not been a break-even business, in fact far from it. it has never made any profit, and the 50 million the city gave the NHL the past two years did not cover all the losses, the losses those last two year are probably in the range of 80 million or more, so even with the 25 million a year, the losses are still in the 15 milion range. the problem is that jamision not only needs to get enough cash to meet the reputed asking price of 170 million, he also need a buffer of 50% of that to cover expected losses, so we'll say he needs an addition 85 million. thats 255 million dollars , to buy a team and operate it, that has never made a profit. even with three straght postseason appearances and last year a run to the Western finals.

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01-08-2013, 03:59 PM
  #619
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...the 50 million the city gave the NHL the past two years did not cover all the losses...
I don't recall seeing any documentation to verify that. And a fair bit of speculation that the losses have been "overstated".

 
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01-08-2013, 04:11 PM
  #620
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I don't recall seeing any documentation to verify that. And a fair bit of speculation that the losses have been "overstated".
dado phoenix reported losing 20 million last year, so with the 25 million, the total losses were 45 million.the year before that the losses were similar. the franchise has lost tons of money since they came out of bankruptcy. they had never made a profit before, but the losses werent as bad as the losses they had post-BK. i'm sure there are links throughout the numerous threads on this sitcom that could give exact numbers

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01-08-2013, 04:17 PM
  #621
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Greg Jamison registers second Phoenix Coyotes business as he works to finalize purchase

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...d-phoenix.html

Arizona Hockey Partners LLC was incorporated last month and filed paperwork with the Arizona Corporation Commission. State laws require business to register and submit information about their ownership with the ACC. The regulatory body approved Arizona Hockey Partnersí registration on Dec. 29. Arizona Hockey Partners lists Jamison Entertainment Group as its main shareholder and owner. That Los Gatos, Calif.-based company is owned by Jamison.

Arizona Hockey Partners is also the only shareholder/member listed under another Jamison business, Arizona Hockey Arena Partners LLC. That business was registered by Jamison earlier this year and is the entity that will manage and run the arena.


the ACC filings do not shed any additional light on his investors.

So.

AHAP LLC - runs the arena
AHP LLC - runs the team

JEG is the main shareholder of AHP LLC

AHP LLC is the only shareholder of AHAP LLC

I think I got that straight.

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01-08-2013, 04:21 PM
  #622
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
I wonder if GB has secret intentions to move the team to a different market, but is ensuring that the team itself and survive in Phoenix for several more years until another market/arena is ready to take an NHL team.

Seattle still is not an option in the short term as the NBA needs to sledgehammer a team for relocation to Seattle, afterwhich an arena can then be constructed...

Quebec is not an option short term because a new arena is currently under construction...

Which leaves... Markham, and as far as I know, the arena there is still in blueprints, not physically started...

Phoenix, at the moment, has an arena, a hardcore fan base, and many facilities around it to maintain business, even if that means it is a break even business....

I sincerely believe the league is waiting for the pieces to fall into place to move this team. Jamison may just be a cover, a front if you will, to "hold" the team temporarily and get it off the leagues back.
Hardcore fan base and break even business,you must be talking about another team,you can`t possibly talking about the Coyotes.

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01-08-2013, 04:21 PM
  #623
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Greg Jamison registers second Phoenix Coyotes business as he works to finalize purchase

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...d-phoenix.html

Arizona Hockey Partners LLC was incorporated last month and filed paperwork with the Arizona Corporation Commission. State laws require business to register and submit information about their ownership with the ACC. The regulatory body approved Arizona Hockey Partnersí registration on Dec. 29. Arizona Hockey Partners lists Jamison Entertainment Group as its main shareholder and owner. That Los Gatos, Calif.-based company is owned by Jamison.

Arizona Hockey Partners is also the only shareholder/member listed under another Jamison business, Arizona Hockey Arena Partners LLC. That business was registered by Jamison earlier this year and is the entity that will manage and run the arena.


the ACC filings do not shed any additional light on his investors.

So.

AHAP LLC - runs the arena
AHP LLC - runs the team

JEG is the main shareholder of AHP LLC

AHP LLC is the only shareholder of AHAP LLC

I think I got that straight.
now tell us who owns JEG.

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01-08-2013, 04:25 PM
  #624
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I don't recall seeing any documentation to verify that. And a fair bit of speculation that the losses have been "overstated".
Actual cash loses for the 2010-2011 season were $36.6 million as per the documentation the NHL submitted in regards to withdrawing the escrow money from the city.

Warning pdf: http://www.azcentral.com/ic/communit...es-invoice.pdf


I have seen no such document in regards to 2011-2012, and have seen no reports of the money ever being taken out, or the $5 million that the city was initially short being deposited.

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01-08-2013, 04:34 PM
  #625
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...he doesn't strike me as the kind of dude who normalizes with time.
Indeed not. Listens to wave harmonics from another Solar System. The one your new "neighbours" are from. The Owls'. Surely do hope you wont ever have to wake up one morning with a lot of lost & wasted time to contemplate.... surely by now after all Jamison's had more than enough of that precious commodity. He's been at it since July 2011.

Quote:
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I don't recall seeing any documentation to verify that. And a fair bit of speculation that the losses have been "overstated".
... pretty much impossible to get a bead on. No idea what the real losses are. Anecdotally "little birdies" who claim to have seen Jamisons prospectus under the auspices of ND's have whispered as much. Nothing in the media confirming or denying losses or sale price for some time. Just the usual "reputed $170M price tag". Well, its been $170M for nearly 24mnths, 2 seasons. How is that possible? Did Glendales $50M along with the receipt of RS proceeds etc etc etc eliminate losses altogether? Reported by proven unreliable mainstreamers like Sunnucks & others that losses were $36M in 11-12 & so on & so forth. Total shell game.

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