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Looking back at the Roy trade

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Old
01-08-2013, 12:41 PM
  #26
Layne Staley
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Originally Posted by Corto View Post
Meh.

I didn't like it then, I don't like it now.

For all the "this team needs size and grit" talk, this team is still low on top-end talent, and swapping Roy for Ott doesn't help in any way in that department.

Honestly, I see it as a downgrade now and I don't think they'll benefit from it in the long run.

I think Ott's an overrated grinder/agitator with some hockey skill and Roy has become an underrated elite #2 center (yes, that's right, not quite a true #1 C, but an elite #2).
Agree with this 100%.Most people think just losing Roy makes us better () but we have no proven top 6 centers now.Better hope Cody and Ennis are ready or we are in for a dreadful season.

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01-08-2013, 12:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jacob582 View Post
My theory:
Pardy was a salary dump on the part of the Stars (like Kotalik). He was not in their plans and nobody wanted him. It was the Sabres "payment" for the Stars to pay Roy during his recovery from surgery this fall.

I think Pardy will be waived and assigned to Rochester for depth. $1.1 million of his salary will count towards the cap this year.

Maybe we can trade him to the Islanders since Vishnovsky is staying in Slovakia. We can pay half his salary and the Islanders can keep his cap hit (if the rule works that way, still confused about that one).
Yes, the value of an injured Roy with one year left was not as much as the value of Ott with two years left, so Regier agreed to take on the salary of a player that Dallas didn't need. I said then and I still think now that Roy would've had more value after returning healthy and improving his stats (which would've been very hard NOT to do) as a trade deadline acquisition for a team needing scoring or having lost a top-two C to injury. But, as it turns out, Roy was possibly in need of surgery which perhaps Buffalo was unwilling to bother with. I'm in favor of trading Roy, but I thought they could've gotten a better value for him.

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01-08-2013, 12:58 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Agree with this 100%.Most people think just losing Roy makes us better () but we have no proven top 6 centers now.Better hope Cody and Ennis are ready or we are in for a dreadful season.
Losing Roy does help if you believe that he was a contributor to the team culture that, for example, couldn't snap out of their embarrassing losing streaks on display from the last two seasons.

I don't expect much from this team for this upcoming season partially for the reason you cited, but kicking Roy out and bringing in a guy like Ott is an investment move that will take some time to pay off. There probably won't be instant gratification out of that trade.

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01-08-2013, 01:06 PM
  #29
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Roy was never going to be a part of the team's future. Not saying that Ott will be but he has an extra year on his contract and I'd rather have a player like him in the young locker room than Roy. My main gripe with the trade was that we had to take on a redundant player like Pardy but I guess it makes sense. Lockout or no lockout the Stars were only getting Roy for 40 or so games so Pardy was probably the equalizer.

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01-08-2013, 01:16 PM
  #30
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People seem to have short memories in regards to Roy. I recall reading numerous quotes where there wasn't a market for Derek Roy, despite DR's efforts. That alone told me something.

When elite #2 centers are on the market, they typically don't stay there long.

From my viewpoint he evolved into a selfish player that didnt make his teammates better.

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01-08-2013, 01:25 PM
  #31
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Issue remains team is crazy thin at centre. Let's say Ennis/Hodgson play great, maybe that's 38 minutes with Ruff. What is behind them? Plus, an injury and we are in trouble. You can't go into a season with so little down the middle. I expect a move.

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01-08-2013, 01:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Tasty View Post
People seem to have short memories in regards to Roy. I recall reading numerous quotes where there wasn't a market for Derek Roy, despite DR's efforts. That alone told me something.

When elite #2 centers are on the market, they typically don't stay there long.

From my viewpoint he evolved into a selfish player that didnt make his teammates better.
I would say your view is showing short-term memory. Roy, prior to his knee injury was easily the best forward on this team. So he misses half of a season when the team goes on a great run, has a shoulder injury this past season in which he has a career worst year, and the fan base reduced him into a villain.

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01-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I would say your view is showing short-term memory. Roy, prior to his knee injury was easily the best forward on this team. So he misses half of a season when the team goes on a great run, has a shoulder injury this past season in which he has a career worst year, and the fan base reduced him into a villain.
Not really, I had no hate for Roy like some fans did. I was very excited about him as a player for this team for years. After his bigger contract though, it seemed like he changed as a player.

I'm not arguing that he wasn't skilled, because he was/is.

And, I would argue that the last two years Pomms was the best forward on the team.

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01-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #34
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It made us worse as far as skill goes. However, I think it makes us a better TEAM. Gives Ennis and Foligno a chance to shine, takes a bad influence out of the locker room, and improves team culture and toughness.

However, while all of that sounds nice, we'll just have to see what happens on the ice. My friends (Who admittedly don't follow hockey like I do) hate the trade, and mock the Sabres mercilessly for making it.

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01-08-2013, 03:19 PM
  #35
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Just thought I'd point out that Ott has this 48 game season, and then another year after that on his contract. A few posters were talking about him as if he had only this season left. Roy does only have one year left, though. Ott has 2.

I still like it. Roy's time was done and we know we needed a player like Ott for multiple years (I firmly believe he'll get an extension almost as soon as he's allowed to extend his contract for 2-3 years) and it was a pretty big shift of power from the Roy/Pominville/Vanek etc. era to the Hodgson/Ennis/Grigs/Myers/kids era, which is what we've been asking for.

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01-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Tasty View Post
Not really, I had no hate for Roy like some fans did. I was very excited about him as a player for this team for years. After his bigger contract though, it seemed like he changed as a player.

I'm not arguing that he wasn't skilled, because he was/is.

And, I would argue that the last two years Pomms was the best forward on the team.
Roy actually had his best seasons after his big contract, and was viewed as the biggest pt/dollar bargain on the team. Then the league adapted to the 2005-06 rule changes and reverted back somewhat to a tighter checking and more physical game around 09-10. That slowed down Roy and Connolly (and others) and the Sabres weren't as effective overall anymore. Even still, before Roy's knee injury he was playing great and producing. No way he or ANY player would return to that pace last season. Add in the shoulder problems and you have a "overpaid bum". His time was past anyway, and it was right to trade him, but he wasn't such a cancer/wimp that some want to believe. I expect the next couple seasons to fairly well prove that.

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Old
01-08-2013, 04:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by HogtownSabresfan View Post
Issue remains team is crazy thin at centre. Let's say Ennis/Hodgson play great, maybe that's 38 minutes with Ruff. What is behind them? Plus, an injury and we are in trouble. You can't go into a season with so little down the middle. I expect a move.
This is the best part about the trade. We don't have a supposed #1 center any more. We have Hodgson who's probably a solid #2, and Ennis who is largely unknown. Darcy is now forced to find our next top line center.

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01-08-2013, 05:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by punkr0x View Post
This is the best part about the trade. We don't have a supposed #1 center any more. We have Hodgson who's probably a solid #2, and Ennis who is largely unknown. Darcy is now forced to find our next top line center.
wrong, out of Hodgson, Ennis, and Grigorenko... our coaching staff is now forced to GROOM a #1 center.

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01-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wrong, out of Hodgson, Ennis, and Grigorenko... our coaching staff is now forced to GROOM a #1 center.
Yupp. I think the best part about the trade is that Grigs will probably make the team out of camp.

Ennis
Foligno
Grigs
Hecht/Porter/whoever

Very young. Very inexperienced. Very exciting.

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01-08-2013, 05:17 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wrong, out of Hodgson, Ennis, and Grigorenko... our coaching staff is now forced to GROOM a #1 center.
Yep. The only move I'd really like the front office to make is for a fourth line pivot who can start 70-80% of his shifts in the defensive zone, doesn't get hurt and can lead a first PK unit at >3 minutes of SHTOI/game.

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01-08-2013, 06:04 PM
  #41
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I don't see much upside in the coaching staff being forced to groom a #1 center. I'm not very anti-Ruff, but I don't see him as knowing what do to with young, even elite, talent at the center position. He can coach up a bunch of grinders and defensive forwards, but getting the most out of young and offensive minded talent is probably not Ruff's best quality.

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01-08-2013, 06:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
wrong, out of Hodgson, Ennis, and Grigorenko... our coaching staff is now forced to GROOM a #1 center.
exactly, I think Hodgson will be that guy by the end of this season.

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01-08-2013, 06:15 PM
  #43
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We had 3 tiny centres. To give them ice time we would have had to move one of them to wing on the second line and screw up what was working. I thought Roy was a very good talent who had great games but a lot of selfish shifts. I do not see us with a first line centre and do not think Hodgson or Ennis will get the points Roy did. But with UFA coming and with the cap, aging, need for size, I ended up reluctantly in favour of the deal.

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01-08-2013, 06:17 PM
  #44
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I dont understand who people think Hodgson is small, he is 6' maybe even alittle taller and built like a brick **** house

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01-08-2013, 06:26 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
More likely, IMO, Darcy is getting adept at identifying the team scapegoats, and pinning blame on them (at least internally) to keep his seat from getting too hot with Black and Pegula. So much of the scorn directed at him and the team was his belief that Connolly and Roy were "top-20 centers." He let Timmy walk, and he jettisoned Roy in consecutive summers. Don't be surprised when he trades Miller or Stafford (the scapegoat-elect) after another failure to qualify for the playoffs.
It's a lot more likely he got rid of Connolly because he wasn't worth keeping at the salary he got.

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01-08-2013, 07:42 PM
  #46
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exactly, I think Hodgson will be that guy by the end of this season.
i hope Ruff gives him the opportunity... i hope he gets all the roy minutes/linemates/situations.

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01-08-2013, 08:31 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
i hope Ruff gives him the opportunity... i hope he gets all the roy minutes/linemates/situations.
Given how he was used in Roc I imagine hes probably the pk1 center, pp1 center, and the teams #2 at even strength. Always was a huge Gary Roberts fan and I'm thrilled to have a student of his, especially one as talented as Hodgson, in our lineup for the foreseeable future.

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01-08-2013, 09:20 PM
  #48
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Just thought I'd point out that Ott has this 48 game season, and then another year after that on his contract. A few posters were talking about him as if he had only this season left. Roy does only have one year left, though. Ott has 2.

I still like it. Roy's time was done and we know we needed a player like Ott for multiple years (I firmly believe he'll get an extension almost as soon as he's allowed to extend his contract for 2-3 years) and it was a pretty big shift of power from the Roy/Pominville/Vanek etc. era to the Hodgson/Ennis/Grigs/Myers/kids era, which is what we've been asking for.
This is a really important point: Ott is signed through next year.

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01-09-2013, 12:20 AM
  #49
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i hope Ruff gives him the opportunity... i hope he gets all the roy minutes/linemates/situations.
Somebody has to. Track record, especially post-lockout Ruff, says that a new "guy" will be called upon from the start to do exactly what you said in the bolded.

My immediate attempt to get inside Lindy's head has me thinking it will be Ennis.

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01-09-2013, 07:51 AM
  #50
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Somebody has to. Track record, especially post-lockout Ruff, says that a new "guy" will be called upon from the start to do exactly what you said in the bolded.

My immediate attempt to get inside Lindy's head has me thinking it will be Ennis.
He did say prior to the lockout that Ennis would be getting the majority of Roy's minutes.

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