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Luongo Talk: The Final Countdown...?

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01-08-2013, 01:19 PM
  #526
vanuck
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Oh great... just when I thought the Leafs talk was over.

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01-08-2013, 01:20 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It isn't a money issue that's preventing them from re-signing Weiss. Apparently he just wants to move on (according to MacLean).

Right now I see our top 6 with Weiss as being:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Weiss-Kesler

now, the Sedins contracts are up at the end of next season. If their production continues to regress and/or if they want a raise on what they're making right now then I will strongly suggest we move on. At that point our top 6 could be:

???-Kesler-Burrows
Booth-Weiss-?????

and we will have $12.2M of cap space to go out and bring in some high quality wingers. Bringing in Weiss gives us a lot of flexibility, and makes us a much more dangerous team right now.
It's more likely that Florida hangs onto Weiss if they trade for Luongo...why would they trade away their #1 center for a #1 goalie if they are trying to make the playoffs? Why wouldn't they play out until the trade deadline then possibly trade him off when they know where they sit?

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01-08-2013, 01:21 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
If it was too risky, why did Burke do it for Kessel? Burke doesn't value picks like you do LL. You have a fans perspective of your team. I've seen Burke operate on both sides of the fence. He gives up 2nd rounders like they're candy. And his opinion on waiting on the 1sts can be seen in the Kessel deal.



He's not a builder. He never was.
You want a 2nd...i'm good. I've seen posters on this very board say Burke shouldn't deal his 1st for Luongo.....don't need to be a Leaf homer to know that the original asking price was horribad for Toronto.

Again, not sure how many times i've got to say it, Burke badly evaluated what he had here when he made the Kessel deal....and AGAIN...he got a 21 year old who has only improved every year. I think it's safe to say that Luongo is about as high as he can go...no?

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Old
01-08-2013, 01:25 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The 2 time Prez trophy winners couldn't bring Schultz or Doan....sometimes nothing can be done.

How many players signed with VAN because they were a winning team? And you are taking the outliers? Not to mention Doan re-signed for loyalty's sake.



When Shultz rejected VAN, it went against what people expected. Does anyone really expect Kessel to stick around should they keep losing? Money is everywhere.

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01-08-2013, 01:32 PM
  #530
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How many players signed with VAN because they were a winning team? And you are taking the outliers? Not to mention Doan re-signed for loyalty's sake.



When Shultz rejected VAN, it went against what people expected. Does anyone really expect Kessel to stick around should they keep losing? Money is everywhere.
So to those who say Perry and Getzlaf won't leave the Ducks....why exactly? Are they primed to win it all? Alex Semin chose the Canes....why? While i admit they have greatly improved....contender? Nope...they got paid.

Let me ask you this....if by some strange miracle the Leafs make the playoffs this year....does that mark an improvement? If so, does that mean Kessel would stay?

As far as how many players signed...if you mean ones that were not there already...Garrison would be the one who multiple teams may be interested in.

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01-08-2013, 01:33 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
So to those who say Perry and Getzlaf won't leave the Ducks....why exactly? Are they primed to win it all? Alex Semin chose the Canes....why? While i admit they have greatly improved....contender? Nope...they got paid.

Let me ask you this....if by some strange miracle the Leafs make the playoffs this year....does that mark an improvement? If so, does that mean Kessel would stay?
Drafted by the Ducks, best friends, won a Cup there need more?

Semin chose the Canes due to $$$

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01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #532
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Pretty obvious if you ask me.
The claim was that Luongo instantly makes any team that much better.

Vancouver is an instance of "any team".

Therefore he should instantly make Vancouver that much better. And if he makes us instantly that much better, we would be silly to get rid of him.

Conversely, if we are an exception, then there are likely other exceptions as well, since they tend to travel in bunches. Which implies the original claim is hyperbolic, at best, and not supportable.

 
Old
01-08-2013, 01:38 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
So to those who say Perry and Getzlaf won't leave the Ducks....why exactly? Are they primed to win it all? Alex Semin chose the Canes....why? While i admit they have greatly improved....contender? Nope...they got paid.

Let me ask you this....if by some strange miracle the Leafs make the playoffs this year....does that mark an improvement? If so, does that mean Kessel would stay?

As far as how many players signed...if you mean ones that were not there already...Garrison would be the one who multiple teams may be interested in.


Hamhuis, Samuelsson, Malhotra, Demitra, Sundin and more... Some of these guys don't even look at VAN if they aren't a winning team.


The odds retaining Kessel greatly increase if TOR becomes a winning team. Period. You're acting like it's irrelevant, which is patently false.


Semin got paid, Getzlaf will. Is that all that's a part of their decision? Was winning irrelevant to both? Will it be? No. Winning absolutely helps in retaining said talent, and if it's important enough, they walk to find it.


If you want to admit that Kessel is a complete mercenary, feel free. I won't argue the point further if you do that.

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01-08-2013, 01:39 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Drafted by the Ducks, best friends, won a Cup there need more?

Semin chose the Canes due to $$$
I think they will leave the Ducks..

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01-08-2013, 01:41 PM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It isn't a money issue that's preventing them from re-signing Weiss. Apparently he just wants to move on (according to MacLean).

Right now I see our top 6 with Weiss as being:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Weiss-Kesler

now, the Sedins contracts are up at the end of next season. If their production continues to regress and/or if they want a raise on what they're making right now then I will strongly suggest we move on. At that point our top 6 could be:

???-Kesler-Burrows
Booth-Weiss-?????

and we will have $12.2M of cap space to go out and bring in some high quality wingers. Bringing in Weiss gives us a lot of flexibility, and makes us a much more dangerous team right now.
I suspect the Sedins will finish their careers here and slowly move down the depth chart while still being effective players. I remember when Gillis had a Detroit model in mind and I look at (not comparing the players but the situation) Yzerman, Shanahan, still effective while playing diminished roles and reduced salaries. I definitely see that with the Sedins.

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01-08-2013, 01:43 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Hamhuis, Samuelsson, Malhotra, Demitra, Sundin and more... Some of these guys don't even look at VAN if they aren't a winning team.


The odds retaining Kessel greatly increase if TOR becomes a winning team. Period. You're acting like it's irrelevant, which is patently false.


Semin got paid, Getzlaf will. Is that all that's a part of their decision? Was winning irrelevant to both? Will it be? No. Winning absolutely helps in retaining said talent, and if it's important enough, they walk to find it.


If you want to admit that Kessel is a complete mercenary, feel free. I won't argue the point further if you do that.
You paid Sundin 20 million for 2 years, he was going to retire and Van was the only team to offer him anything.

Does it make Kessel a mercenary if he is happy in TO and excepts a long term deal over darting to a "winner"? I'm not sure were i called him a mercenary...the guy lives in TO now, is going to get paid very well here, not sure why he would leave.

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01-08-2013, 01:47 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The claim was that Luongo instantly makes any team that much better.

Vancouver is an instance of "any team".

Therefore he should instantly make Vancouver that much better. And if he makes us instantly that much better, we would be silly to get rid of him.

Conversely, if we are an exception, then there are likely other exceptions as well, since they tend to travel in bunches. Which implies the original claim is hyperbolic, at best, and not supportable.
LOL... Whatever, dude. I'm here to talk about a Luongo trade. Not watch you trying to be a smartguy

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Old
01-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #538
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I'v always been a huge Schneider supporter from day one... but if Gillis can't get anything that's going to make a serious impact "this" season or in the future then Schneider should be the one traded. He could get a ransom. If I were to trade Schneider to the Leafs I'd expect Gardiner, first rounder and either Lupul or Grabovski. Is the discrepancy between Luongos and Schneider skill on par with the value coming back? Schneiders value is at an all time high and could only get higher with a Vezina season and Luongos is at an all time low. Our window to win is now. Luongo got us to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals. He's capable of getting us there.
Schneider would never garner a return like that, at least not until he has a dominating season under his belt. Gardiner+Kadri is likely the absolute high any team can reasonably be expected to go. Frankly, I would be content with that, as it opens the possibility of dealing Edler or Gardiner to address our top six forward needs. And perhaps I am alone in this but I see Kadri developing into a solid tweener, who may just jump into full top six in a few years.

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01-08-2013, 01:56 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You paid Sundin 20 million for 2 years, he was going to retire and Van was the only team to offer him anything.

Does it make Kessel a mercenary if he is happy in TO and excepts a long term deal over darting to a "winner"? I'm not sure were i called him a mercenary...the guy lives in TO now, is going to get paid very well here, not sure why he would leave.



Winning, or lack there of, would be the biggest reason he would leave.


Your initial argument was that if you paid him, he would stay. Like this is the only thing that matters to players. He doesn't need to win? fine. He's happy in TO? Also fine. But the _odds_ of keeping a player increase exponentially if his team is winning when he decides. Period.


VAN was the only team to offer Sundin anything? Are you positive on this? I don't even want to look back to explicitly prove you wrong.

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01-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #540
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I absolutely hate the leafs, 99% because of the fanbase. But, this liferleafer is a very smart hockey guy(or gal) and I think he is one of the few leaf fans that actually (get it).

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01-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Winning, or lack there of, would be the biggest reason he would leave.


Your initial argument was that if you paid him, he would stay. Like this is the only thing that matters to players. He doesn't need to win? fine. He's happy in TO? Also fine. But the _odds_ of keeping a player increase exponentially if his team is winning when he decides. Period.


VAN was the only team to offer Sundin anything? Are you positive on this? I don't even want to look back to explicitly prove you wrong.
MTL and NYR were in the mix for sure. Some epic pissing matches back then. Good times.

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01-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Winning, or lack there of, would be the biggest reason he would leave.


Your initial argument was that if you paid him, he would stay. Like this is the only thing that matters to players. He doesn't need to win? fine. He's happy in TO? Also fine. But the _odds_ of keeping a player increase exponentially if his team is winning when he decides. Period.


VAN was the only team to offer Sundin anything? Are you positive on this? I don't even want to look back to explicitly prove you wrong.
Rangers were in it too. 100% positive in that. I remember telling myself I would hate them even more of they got Sundi after what they did to us in 94.

It went down to us and them.

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01-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #543
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Where have you heard that they aren't? The main boards?
Where have you heard they are? All I hear is that Luongo wants to go to Florida..ok great he wants to go there. Has anyone like Shannon or Kypreos, or Mendes or Dreger even mentioned that Florida is interested in him? I'm just curious.

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01-08-2013, 02:04 PM
  #544
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A Luongo with something to prove...and he does have something to prove, is something Burke should desperately want.

But if he doesn't pony up, and really, I don't see how he can, he will be out of the playoffs and out of the TML organization after this season. And still no number one center or no number one goaltender in the center of the universe.

I think Florida is still the front runner. And as much as that SE division was a curiosity last year, I still think Florida has a good shot at repeating this year...particularly with a happy Longo who has something to prove.

Tallon knows this and Gillis knows this. It may take a bit, but Florida is where I say Lou goes.

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01-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You paid Sundin 20 million for 2 years, he was going to retire and Van was the only team to offer him anything.

Does it make Kessel a mercenary if he is happy in TO and excepts a long term deal over darting to a "winner"? I'm not sure were i called him a mercenary...the guy lives in TO now, is going to get paid very well here, not sure why he would leave.
That's not accurate. Montreal was involved quite heavily as were a couple of other teams, one of which was the Rangers I believe and possibly Detroit. I'd have to search the Sundin sweepstakes threads which went on about as long as these Luongo ones to get the teams involved. Vancouver definitely offered the most money but most of the articles at the time considered Vancouver a longshot to get him.
I agree with the rest of your post though.

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01-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #546
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Just a comment on the first part of your post. It really is shocking to me that the Leaf fans around here have really become quite use to and content with losing and supporting a loser. I think it's been so long since they've had a successful team that they truly forget how sweet it is to watch their team win and actually be in the mix. They would rather continue with mediocrity then change the direction of the team for the better.

Just like to refer you to the following thread. 75% of our fan base wants a new goalie for next year (60% of that is Luongo). So, if by "Leaf fans around here", you mean one of every four, then yes, that is true.

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01-08-2013, 02:08 PM
  #547
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Where have you heard they are? All I hear is that Luongo wants to go to Florida..ok great he wants to go there. Has anyone like Shannon or Kypreos, or Mendes or Dreger even mentioned that Florida is interested in him? I'm just curious.
There were reports earlier that Tallon had cleared taking on his contract with the Florida ownership. Then of course we had the lockout so there has not been much since.

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01-08-2013, 02:11 PM
  #548
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Where have you heard they are? All I hear is that Luongo wants to go to Florida..ok great he wants to go there. Has anyone like Shannon or Kypreos, or Mendes or Dreger even mentioned that Florida is interested in him? I'm just curious.

Yes they have (not all, but reporters). Dreger definitely has because I remember him mentioning it.

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01-08-2013, 02:16 PM
  #549
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Winning, or lack there of, would be the biggest reason he would leave.


Your initial argument was that if you paid him, he would stay. Like this is the only thing that matters to players. He doesn't need to win? fine. He's happy in TO? Also fine. But the _odds_ of keeping a player increase exponentially if his team is winning when he decides. Period.


VAN was the only team to offer Sundin anything? Are you positive on this? I don't even want to look back to explicitly prove you wrong.
Positive...no. But being a Leaf fan, and going through him not waiving at the deadline because he was going to retire. I recall him taking quite a while to decide if he was going to accept the Canucks offer or retire.

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01-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #550
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That's not accurate. Montreal was involved quite heavily as were a couple of other teams, one of which was the Rangers I believe and possibly Detroit. I'd have to search the Sundin sweepstakes threads which went on about as long as these Luongo ones to get the teams involved. Vancouver definitely offered the most money but most of the articles at the time considered Vancouver a longshot to get him.
I agree with the rest of your post though.
Sorry all, i don't recall the sweepstakes, i'm sure you are correct as the Nucks were heavily involved.

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