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Best way to regain fan trust

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #76
Roomtemperature
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At this point the only way to regain trust is to have a CBA that never expires. Cause even if the league is healthy 7 to 10 years from now we will all worry about another lockout.

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01-07-2013, 11:00 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
THe only way I can go back to the NHL right now (I will be back eventually) would be to void every single contract and get an entire new crop of players.
I have lost all respect for the players, I tried watching the Spengler cup final and could not give a damn. I did not agree with them in 2004 but I could see and appreciate what they were fighting for; I will not cheer on a bunch of idiots who let themselves be strung around by a union that fights for a small minority of players, lies on live national TV and do everything they can to inflict the maximum amount of pain on the other side due to not being able to understand simple economics.

I am a principled man, but that does not mean that all principles are equal. The notion that the union had to hurt the NHL has much as possible to make a point is beyond ridiculous, it's like beating someone up to make a point: I will never stand behind anyone who supports this.
The union had to hurt the NHL to make a point? Where did you get that nonsense from?

1. The league locked out the players, who were quite content to continue playing with the current rules in place.

2. The league's initial proposals did not only take money directly from the players (HRR from 57% to 50%), but also had several other negative impacts. Max 5 years on deals. Harder to become a UFA. Less negotiating rights. Harder arbitration. Every single point in the proposal was worse for the players than the current. How is that a negotiation? Telling one side that that have to accept less in every single area, and gain nothing at all? For a business that was raking in billions? And somehow the fans largely side with the businesses on this?

The anger towards the players baffles me. It seems to me people want their favourite hockey players to be "common men", and when business rears its head it freaks people out.

But then we have the multi-millionaire owners (some billionaires), and them demanding for more is okay somehow? It's like we expect the business guys to be sleazy and greedy, but when it is a player that refuses to lie back and accept their fate it is not okay.

People also need to stop with the idiocy of saying "I'd play for $100k!", as if that is somehow a logical argument against the players. No one would pay you $100k to play, because no one would pay to watch you play.

One final note: Ticket prices are solely based on supply & demand. Player salaries have zero to do with it.

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01-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Season Ticket Holders have a right to be entitled because they are. People that buy tickets to the games are too, albeit less so. People that sit on their ass at home and keep going on and on about how they deserve center ice are the ones that are complaining the most and deserve the least. Money talks, b.s. walks.
I'm sorry my choices are paying 500 bucks to see the Leafs or "sitting on my ass", I guess.

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01-07-2013, 11:17 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I'm sorry my choices are paying 500 bucks to see the Leafs or "sitting on my ass", I guess.
No, that's totally fine but the people that pay the 500 bucks should get a little more attention, that's all the guy with the idea was saying.

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01-07-2013, 11:24 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
No, that's totally fine but the people that pay the 500 bucks should get a little more attention, that's all the guy with the idea was saying.
No they shouldn't, but that's fine that you think that.

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01-07-2013, 11:32 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
At this point the only way to regain trust is to have a CBA that never expires. Cause even if the league is healthy 7 to 10 years from now we will all worry about another lockout.
You don't have to worry, let me put your mind at ease. The first chance either side gets ( 8 years) to exercise an out, they will. For pretty much the exact same reasons we did the last lockout. In the last two lockouts, the owners have gotten the PA to reduce their share from somewhere around 70 to 50%. Why wouldnt the owners do the same thing the next chance they get ? The real question is the extent the owners ask the players to take.

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01-07-2013, 11:56 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
Why not just let the center ice package be free this season?
That's what I was thinking. A nice gesture.

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01-07-2013, 12:14 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
All you get is this:




And a price increase.
They better throw in the appropriate comma this time....

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01-07-2013, 12:50 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
No they shouldn't, but that's fine that you think that.
This isn't communism it's actually the complete opposite.

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01-07-2013, 12:56 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
This isn't communism it's actually the complete opposite.
Well that wasn't random and completely off-topic.

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01-07-2013, 12:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
You don't have to worry, let me put your mind at ease. The first chance either side gets ( 8 years) to exercise an out, they will. For pretty much the exact same reasons we did the last lockout. In the last two lockouts, the owners have gotten the PA to reduce their share from somewhere around 70 to 50%. Why wouldnt the owners do the same thing the next chance they get ? The real question is the extent the owners ask the players to take.
I thought it was a mutual out before the 10th year.

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01-07-2013, 01:09 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
THe only way I can go back to the NHL right now (I will be back eventually) would be to void every single contract and get an entire new crop of players.
I have lost all respect for the players, I tried watching the Spengler cup final and could not give a damn. I did not agree with them in 2004 but I could see and appreciate what they were fighting for; I will not cheer on a bunch of idiots who let themselves be strung around by a union that fights for a small minority of players, lies on live national TV and do everything they can to inflict the maximum amount of pain on the other side due to not being able to understand simple economics.

I am a principled man, but that does not mean that all principles are equal. The notion that the union had to hurt the NHL has much as possible to make a point is beyond ridiculous, it's like beating someone up to make a point: I will never stand behind anyone who supports this.
You are not going to get what you want, but you could follow lacrosse until your jangled nerves settle down well enough that you can resume watching hockey.

Lacrosse is a good Canadian game for a good Canadian guy. Besides that, most of the players have day jobs because they really don't make a lot of money. Perhaps you could even learn to like that part too. Could it be a match made in heaven?

I'm not at all interested, but if you're thinking of giving up any Leafs tickets I've heard there's still a very robust demand. Go figure, eh?

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01-07-2013, 01:11 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I fail to see your point. The people going to the games are watching on TV too, perhaps even more because they are invested. IF and it's a big IF, the NHL wants to compensate its fans, it needs to look first and the people with the greatest devotion to the game, the people paying the most. Then trickle down from there, and if there is something left for the couch potato at the end, sure, grease him too.
My point was initially that those watching at home on TV are also generating money for the league, probably in greater numbers than what teams are getting from their season ticket base. The days of pro sports being "gate driven" in terms of revenue are long gone. TV and merchandise revenue make up quite a big amount of their bottom lines.

But this also brings me to another point, in that most people who care enough about hockey to order Center Ice also care enough to buy tickets to see games live, the audiences aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, you're drawing from the same hardcore, non-casual fanbase. In one instance you just have fans who are fans of the local team (usually) vs one that's a fan of someone out of market (usually).

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01-07-2013, 02:07 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
My point was initially that those watching at home on TV are also generating money for the league, probably in greater numbers than what teams are getting from their season ticket base. The days of pro sports being "gate driven" in terms of revenue are long gone. TV and merchandise revenue make up quite a big amount of their bottom lines.
Maybe the days of "gate driven" are long gone for other sports, but not the NHL.

NHL teams derived 47% of their revenues last season from arena revenues controlled by the fan. These include gate receipts, concessions and parking. The other half of revenues hail from media contracts, luxury suites, sponsors and non-hockey events.

Of the major U.S. sports, baseball is the next highest at 46%, but that figure is set to drop with the explosion of local media deals in the sport like the impending Los Angeles Dodgers deal worth more than $6 billion. The corresponding percentages in the NBA and NFL are 34% and 24% respectively. The NHL simply does not have the media rights fee millions (or billions) the other sports possess.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbade...ans-come-back/


After going 16 years without having an NHL team, I realized that the NHL needs me more than I need them. My life can go on without NHL hockey, but the NHL can't go on without the fans attending the games.
We the fans have the ability to destroy the NHL if we wanted to... just stop going.

Like the thread title says... TRUST ... and right now that trust is waning a bit.


Last edited by cbcwpg: 01-07-2013 at 02:18 PM.
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01-07-2013, 02:13 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
I thought it was a mutual out before the 10th year.
I thought both sides could get the out ( but I could be wrong, I've read so many peoples interpretation of it). Why would both sides want to get out early, this is not like a business deal that goes south and the parties go there separate ways ? The league and the PA are going to have to deal with each other.

I just did a quick search and for what its worth is says that both sides can opt out after year 8, it does not say that it need to be mutual, so expect one side to exercise this right as soon as they can.

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01-07-2013, 02:18 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
That's what I was thinking. A nice gesture.
Because the nhl owns the content but in demand owns the distribution. In order to get "free" center ice how do you think the NHL determines the size of the check to cut in demand ? If its going to be free a whole lot of cable companies are going to either have to agree to this. In my limited experience, cable companies are loathe to give away anything for free.

Gamecenter ( internet watching) is more likely than center ice because I think the league controls the content and distribution. That's how I understand it at least.

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01-07-2013, 02:22 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Roomtemperature View Post
I thought it was a mutual out before the 10th year.
It looks like we were both right, mutual out means that either side can exercise it, not that both sides have to agree to both opt out.

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01-07-2013, 07:39 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
Right or wrong, fans despise Bettman. The best PR move would be to can him. It would be a huge image boost. Just what we need but I doubt it happens.
I agree. If they fire him, it would definatly help regain fans or at least boost image. But I have to say, even though it seems like Bettman is the villian and so on, he's just doing his job. If they wanted a commish who the fans would like and be behind no matter what, they would have hired Jean Beliveau a long time ago.

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01-07-2013, 09:55 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
They better throw in the appropriate comma this time....
I agree that the grammar police is needed very much on HF, but really not here. The comma is optional in this case.

If posters could just get these correct for a day: there, their, and they're, your and you're, we will have done some fine work.

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01-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #95
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Wondering as a gesture, about having contests to let select fans present Stanley Cup and Conference trophies in leiu of Bettman and co? Maybe the fans who win get a day with the cup before hand or whatever. Not just this year either, every year-let the fans get more involved in the presentations of these things.

I agree though, the fans need to let the NHL know this time they are not pleased.

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01-08-2013, 12:18 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Wondering as a gesture, about having contests to let select fans present Stanley Cup and Conference trophies in leiu of Bettman and co? Maybe the fans who win get a day with the cup before hand or whatever. Not just this year either, every year-let the fans get more involved in the presentations of these things.

I agree though, the fans need to let the NHL know this time they are not pleased.
I think the commishioner always presents the trophy in every sport. Yes I know Bettman gets booed when he does it, but I dont think he'd abdicate this responsibility to a fan.

Fans spending a day with the cup (by themselves) is also a bad idea IMHO. It cheapens it, if people want to see " the" cup they can go to the HHOF. They want to have a day with it, devote your life to the game and get in line. When the players get the day, they get to decide where it goes, throwing in a contest winner just throws a wrench into it.

I kind of like the "fan in the dressing room" contest that the NFL is running the add for ( with the 49ers and Harbaugh) but I think that instead of focusing one one ( or a few) lucky fans it would be better to spread it out over all the fans even if what each fan gets ends up being less.

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01-08-2013, 01:27 PM
  #97
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Just spitballing here, but on a team-specific basis, I think that the best way for a GM to thank the fans and regain their trust is to trade high picks and prospects for a good goaltender with a long, cap-friendly contract in order to signal that you're in win-now mode.

With a shortened season, you may get into the playoffs; if that hasn't happened for awhile, it would certainly bring you much accolades and love from the masses. The trick will be find a goalie who plays for a team that is willing to trade him, which could take some digging.

IMHO, of course.
Even better, this GM should acquire said goaltender for little to nothing. Something along the lines of a struggling former all-star defender with a large cap hit and a player who resembles the tin man from Wizard of Oz.

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01-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
I agree that the grammar police is needed very much on HF, but really not here. The comma is optional in this case.

If posters could just get these correct for a day: there, their, and they're, your and you're, we will have done some fine work.
Doesnt matter, the league came out and said they wont be putting anything on the ice. Melrose said it on WFAN here in NY yesterday afternoon.

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01-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #99
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Doesnt matter, the league came out and said they wont be putting anything on the ice. Melrose said it on WFAN here in NY yesterday afternoon.
Well, yes and no.

The there, their, and they're, your and you're issues on HF still need a lot of work (and don't even get me started on "allot" being used incorrectly here either!)


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01-08-2013, 02:56 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Because the nhl owns the content but in demand owns the distribution. In order to get "free" center ice how do you think the NHL determines the size of the check to cut in demand ? If its going to be free a whole lot of cable companies are going to either have to agree to this. In my limited experience, cable companies are loathe to give away anything for free.

Gamecenter ( internet watching) is more likely than center ice because I think the league controls the content and distribution. That's how I understand it at least.
Simple solution:

"get NHL Center Ice for free" applies to those who call in and subscribe/add it to their cable/sat package. No charge to the account adding it. Rather, the charge goes to the NHL. Then they can split if 50/50 with the NHLPA or whatever.

this whole 'not owned by the NHL but by another company and cable company' crap is just a lame excuse.

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