HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

New CBA will mix things up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2013, 11:02 AM
  #26
zzoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 2,265
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterD View Post
I'm pretty sure zzoo meant Tampa buying him out first... could be wrong though. Could make more sense for them to trade him for and take on half his salary... They're basically equivalent options in my mind for them: buy out costs more money, but the trade costs cap space (and some money) for a while.
Yup. Tampa Bay would buy out Lecavalier, and they can't resign him. So he becomes UFA.
If the price is right, will you sign him as UFA next summer ?

zzoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:45 AM
  #27
kingdok
Registered User
 
kingdok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,867
vCash: 500
I need help. I'm trying to figure out the answer but can't. Can a team trade a player while absorbing 50% of his salary but only something like 25 % of his cap hit? In other words, will the salary and cap hit of a player be treated as distinct entities when trading? thanks.

kingdok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 11:59 AM
  #28
Prairie Habs
Registered User
 
Prairie Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Yup. Tampa Bay would buy out Lecavalier, and they can't resign him. So he becomes UFA.
If the price is right, will you sign him as UFA next summer ?
No. His age doesn't really mesh with the core of our team and we are already set down the middle unless a clear upgrade is available (like Getzlaf). Vinny has also had some injury trouble lately and he has also stated he doesn't want to play here so its all irrelevant.

Prairie Habs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  #29
Corncob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,161
vCash: 500
Doubt Tampa Bay have either the cash or inclination to buy out Lecavalier.

Corncob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 01:13 PM
  #30
Erik Estrada
Registered User
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,793
vCash: 500
"Letís use some examples here to make the rule easier to understand, with the cap-strapped Montreal Canadiens and (likely) unwanted defenceman Tomas Kaberle as the guinea pigs.

Kaberle has two seasons left on his deal, both for $4.25-million in both salary and cap hit. The Habs can then choose to keep $2.125-million of that, continue to pay half his contract, but gain the rest in cap space by sending him to another team.

Letís say the New York Islanders take on that deal. They will be on the hook for two more years of both cap hit and salary.

If the Isles then choose to move him, they can then keep up to $1.06-million of Kaberleís contract and another team will get him for that paltry amount."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle7033878/

Erik Estrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 01:45 PM
  #31
Ayatollah Chowmeini
Registered User
 
Ayatollah Chowmeini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MTL/MKE
Country: United States
Posts: 677
vCash: 500
Retaining salary in trades seems like it should gradually reward well-managed teams with more money. With richer franchises able to cut losses on bad contracts and shop them to teams who need to reach the cap floor, this should gradually end up leveraging the Habs' profitability into a slight on-ice advantage.

Ayatollah Chowmeini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #32
Le Tricolore
Boo! Booooo!
 
Le Tricolore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 28,360
vCash: 500
CBA surprises:

http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2013/01...surprises.html

Le Tricolore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 02:11 PM
  #33
SOLR
Registered User
 
SOLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto / North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,794
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
lol thanks.

SOLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 02:58 PM
  #34
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
If we can retain 50% of salaries on a trade, could we possibly find a sucker to take Gomez for half of his?
Why?

We are better off getting rid of ALL his cap hit in the summer instaed of being stuck with 3.6 mil cap hit next yaer.


That rule sounds like a good replacement for re-entry waivers.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:28 PM
  #35
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,952
vCash: 500
All our bad contracts suddenly become trade-able (expect for Gomez).

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #36
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,643
vCash: 500
Lecavilier is almost certainly not going to be compliance bought out. The current word is that the team will have to pay out 2/3rds of the value of the contract like a regular buyout, just not have to have it against the cap. For a team that has to be tight with money like Tampa Bay, they'd much rather have Vinny as a player than lose him for 1/3rd of the value of his contract in dollars.

One guy that might be availible is Briere, but Desharnais already fills his niche in Montreal.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:42 PM
  #37
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Retaining cap space/salary helps big market teams like the Habs. There's enough elements in the new CBA to promote parity in the league, I don't know why any Habs fan wouldn't be happy with this.
I find it helps smaller teams. They can add players that a bigger market overspent on and wants to get rid of like Komisarek Gomez Redden etc if there was no Compliance buyout.

Say you are a small market looking for cheap help on defense(assuming no compliance buyout next summer) and you can get Komisarek cheap from Toronto for a 6th rounder and they'll take half his salary/cap hit. He would cost you...

12-13 $1.75 mil(2.25 cap hit)
13-14 $1.75 mil(2.25 cap hit)

Even if he was your #5 it would be worth it. It's an easier alteranative to buyouts. And much better than having NHLers "buried" because of their contracts.

If there was no compliance Gomez would cost a team(at half)...3.67 mil cap hit each year and 2.75 and 2.25 in salary the next 2 years. Not a bad gamble for a small market or rebuilding team.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:48 PM
  #38
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Lecavilier is almost certainly not going to be compliance bought out. The current word is that the team will have to pay out 2/3rds of the value of the contract like a regular buyout, just not have to have it against the cap. For a team that has to be tight with money like Tampa Bay, they'd much rather have Vinny as a player than lose him for 1/3rd of the value of his contract in dollars.

One guy that might be availible is Briere, but Desharnais already fills his niche in Montreal.
Lecavalier will hurt TB's chances of building a strong team moving forward. He has a superstar contract with a "good player" production. It's surely a drain on their cash flow.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 03:50 PM
  #39
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
All our bad contracts suddenly become trade-able (expect for Gomez).
I hope it's something we don't do this year. It creates dead cap space.

Say we could dump Kaberle for half his salary with a 7th coming back.

This year it helps us but we have lots of cap space already. Next year we are tight and have 2.125 mil of dead cap space, so you basically need to get a player better than Kaberle for 2.125 mil for it to be worthwhile.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 04:11 PM
  #40
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Lecavalier will hurt TB's chances of building a strong team moving forward. He has a superstar contract with a "good player" production. It's surely a drain on their cash flow.
Lecaviler makes an average of 7.2 Million over the remaining lifetime of his contract. You buy him out you're effectively paying 4.77 per annum and getting nothing in return, saving ~2.4 million a year in player salary. A replacement top nine forward, less good that Lecavalier, is easily going to eat up that 2.4 million, leaving you with no real cash savings.

Unless you think Lecavalier is going to be worth less than a 2.4 million dollar player on average for the remainder of his career, buying him out doesn't really make sense.

Now if a wealthy team like MTL, PHI, NYR etc. held that deal, a buyout makes perfect sense because you care more about cap hit than dollars. But TB operates under different constraints.

For a team more worried about cash than cap, it makes no economic sense to compliance buyout Vinny.

It would be a smart move with compliance buyouts there were last time were you payed 1/3rd of a years salary and were done with them, but the current regime does not favor dumping him.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #41
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Lecaviler makes an average of 7.2 Million over the remaining lifetime of his contract. You buy him out you're effectively paying 4.77 per annum and getting nothing in return, saving ~2.4 million a year in player salary. A replacement top nine forward, less good that Lecavalier, is easily going to eat up that 2.4 million, leaving you with no real cash savings.

Unless you think Lecavalier is going to be worth less than a 2.4 million dollar player on average for the remainder of his career, buying him out doesn't really make sense.

Now if a wealthy team like MTL, PHI, NYR etc. held that deal, a buyout makes perfect sense because you care more about cap hit than dollars. But TB operates under different constraints.

For a team more worried about cash than cap, it makes no economic sense to compliance buyout Vinny.

It would be a smart move with compliance buyouts there were last time were you payed 1/3rd of a years salary and were done with them, but the current regime does not favor dumping him.
I'm not suggesting they should buy him out...they can't afford it.

But he is a huge cash drag on the franchise making 10 mil this year(prorated) and 30 mil the next 3 years. That's around 20% of their yearly cash flow. His salary only drops considerably in 18-19, he'll be retired by then.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 04:30 PM
  #42
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'm not suggesting they should buy him out...they can't afford it.

But he is a huge cash drag on the franchise making 10 mil this year(prorated) and 30 mil the next 3 years. That's around 20% of their yearly cash flow. His salary only drops considerably in 18-19, he'll be retired by then.
For sure he's an anchor on that franchise with that contract. Just not an anchor worth buying out under the current rules.

So Vinny to Montreal version 17.4 can be laid to rest. It's most likely not going to happen.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.