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01-08-2013, 01:56 PM
  #151
Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
no surprise that the team had its best defensive month when bryz clamped down in net

You constantly spout this BS and the BS that what Bryz did against NJD was really anything to be that excited about. I'm sorry but your bar is way too low.
the team limited the shots against in March, Bryz had no control over that. the shots that went through, he got most of them.

shots against is on the team D, not the goalie.

and we clearly watched 2 different playoff series vs NJ last year if you think Bryz was not the best Flyer [possibly by far]. i never said i was "so excited" about Bryz vs NJ, only that he was the best Flyer. please don't twist my words.

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01-08-2013, 01:57 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the team limited the shots against in March, Bryz had no control over that. the shots that went through, he got most of them.

shots against is on the team D, not the goalie.

and we clearly watched 2 different playoff series vs NJ last year if you think Bryz was not the best Flyer [possibly by far]. i never said i was "so excited" about Bryz vs NJ, only that he was the best Flyer. please don't twist my words.
March had more shots against than any month of the season. They did not limit shots.

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01-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
no surprise that the team had its best defensive month when bryz clamped down in net

You constantly spout this BS and the BS that what Bryz did against NJD was really anything to be that excited about. I'm sorry but your bar is way too low.
if you think goalies have to save everything then what is point of having defensemen? so they can just stand around let the goalies try to bail them out? does anyone have any passion for goalies? it's not an easy as you think, it's the hardest position in hockey. every goalie on this team is always getting blamed, what about the defense? there's no accountability for them, goalies are going to struggle until they fix the defense, which they never addressed until they got pronger.

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01-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
March had more shots against than any month of the season. They did not limit shots.
what quality tho? shots don't mean anything. The whole vibe changed when we got Grossmann

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01-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
My point is that our team was crap defensively in March...because it was. Remember Bryz getting shelled and subjected to numerous 2 on 1s for three straight weeks? He faced more shots in March than in any other month, and it most certainly wasn't all bad angle shots from the boards. Not only did he bail the team out when they really needed it because of the defensive play, he put up lots of shutouts in the process.
I thought that was all season? Bryz needs confidence to play and he won't get that facing all those odd man rushes. You put Bryz on the Rangers and he will put up top numbers.

Simply put, this team does not know how to play team defense. The d-men are suppose to be active and stay in the play and then the forwards don't get back and that leads to a lot of odd man rushes.

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01-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
what quality tho? shots don't mean anything. The whole vibe changed when we got Grossmann
Grossmann did amazing for us defensively. You can see why the Penguins singled him out with a lot of hits to his knees.

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01-08-2013, 02:07 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
Grossmann did amazing for us defensively. You can see why the Penguins singled him out with a lot of hits to his knees.
right. The point is the TEAM (screw just the defense, its hockey) needs to play well in front of him to have success. He's not just gonna play out of his mind if were not solid in our own end. That's what seems to be expected tho cause "were paying him to"

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01-08-2013, 02:12 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
what quality tho? shots don't mean anything. The whole vibe changed when we got Grossmann
They were the same quality. Go look at the box scores from March, some of Bryz's best performances came in games where the team was outplayed and he had to make 30+ saves.

I suspect people try to give defense extra credit in March so they can blame the defense for the rest of Bryz's year.

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01-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #159
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I just hope we can finally get our damn team to work together.

Either the skaters showed up and Bryz didn't or Bryz would show up and the skaters didn't

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01-08-2013, 02:27 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the team limited the shots against in March, Bryz had no control over that. the shots that went through, he got most of them.

shots against is on the team D, not the goalie.

and we clearly watched 2 different playoff series vs NJ last year if you think Bryz was not the best Flyer [possibly by far]. i never said i was "so excited" about Bryz vs NJ, only that he was the best Flyer. please don't twist my words.
Saying bryz was the best on the team really doesn't mean anything.That's ignoring the relative performance of everyone else. I bet there was a night that petr nedved was the best flyer on the ice. Well that team stunk ass, so who cares?

Even if we ignore that, basing any judgment on a 5 game sample size while ignoring aggregate data over the season makes no sense.

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01-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by funghoul View Post
what quality tho? shots don't mean anything. The whole vibe changed when we got Grossmann
Shots against is a pretty good indicator of quality of defensive play.

How many teams do you find that are good defensively that give up a ton of shots?

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01-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
were you even watching the goaltending in the kings/devils series, quick wasnt that great, the devils almost came back in that series, he had some good saves but he wasnt great, he only had 16 shots against him, when they won it, it was the defense and offense that was the difference maker, plus they were built to win it, the flyers are not built to win it right now, you can blame the goaltending all you want, but how many goalies do they have to go through, to find that it's the whole team and the coaching? you can have best goalies on this team and still have a problem if there's no D

im sorry this is not a win it now team, they are not built to win it, im flyers fan being realistic and not being negative, the reality of this team is that they are going to be in rebuilding mode after this season, they have lost alot on defense plus offense, it's not looking like this team will go anywhere for a while like it or not.
Sutter kept saying it was a 3-2 league and he was right. Quick faltered a little bit but the biggest difference with LA and the Flyers was their forwards prided themselves on their defensive play. Every player on all 4 lines is a good to great defensive player, you look at them on the PK and they have Kopitar/Brown and Richards/Carter, all excellent defensive players who can also score. Who do we have that is that complete?

I said it before and I'll say it again, you have an aging goalie on a very long contract and you have a bunch of young guys. There aren't many guys in their prime years with this team. We have Bryz as the #1 goalie from 31 to 40 years of age which is crazy, then there is Couts, BSchenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux etc. who haven't entered their prime. Add in Briere and Kimmo in their mid 30s and the ages of the team as a whole are too widespread.

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01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Sutter kept saying it was a 3-2 league and he was right. Quick faltered a little bit but the biggest difference with LA and the Flyers was their forwards prided themselves on their defensive play. Every player on all 4 lines is a good to great defensive player, you look at them on the PK and they have Kopitar/Brown and Richards/Carter, all excellent defensive players who can also score. Who do we have that is that complete?

I said it before and I'll say it again, you have an aging goalie on a very long contract and you have a bunch of young guys. There aren't many guys in their prime years with this team. We have Bryz as the #1 goalie from 31 to 40 years of age which is crazy, then there is Couts, BSchenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux etc. who haven't entered their prime. Add in Briere and Kimmo in their mid 30s and the ages of the team as a whole are too widespread.
Yeah. Our defense and goalie is completely out of whack with the rest of the team. By the time the forwards are at their best, we have no idea what our D will be like and Bryz is very likely going to be on the downward end of his career.

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01-08-2013, 02:39 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Shots against is a pretty good indicator of quality of defensive play.

How many teams do you find that are good defensively that give up a ton of shots?
kings did it and won the cup, it was only 16 shots against quick, it proves defense wins cups plus a good defense gives a great offense which the flyers dont, why is that so hard for you to believe? not unless you were just looking the goalies, stupid stats, and not looking at the team effort,

its a team sport, it doesnt take one guy to win it, it's the whole team, if you think goalies are the saving grace, how do they play defense, how do they score?

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01-08-2013, 02:41 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
kings did it and won the cup, it was only 16 shots against quick, it proves defense wins cups plus a good defense gives a great offense which the flyers dont, why is that so hard for you to believe? not unless you were just looking the goalies, stupid stats, and not looking at the team effort,

its a team sport, it doesnt take one guy to win it, it's the whole team, if you think goalies are the saving grace, how do they play defense, how do they score?
Since when does a great defense provide a good offense? That would be news to the Kings, actually. Before they acquired Carter, they and their D-heavy system were near the bottom of the league in goal scoring.

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01-08-2013, 02:46 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Sutter kept saying it was a 3-2 league and he was right. Quick faltered a little bit but the biggest difference with LA and the Flyers was their forwards prided themselves on their defensive play. Every player on all 4 lines is a good to great defensive player, you look at them on the PK and they have Kopitar/Brown and Richards/Carter, all excellent defensive players who can also score. Who do we have that is that complete?

I said it before and I'll say it again, you have an aging goalie on a very long contract and you have a bunch of young guys. There aren't many guys in their prime years with this team. We have Bryz as the #1 goalie from 31 to 40 years of age which is crazy, then there is Couts, BSchenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux etc. who haven't entered their prime. Add in Briere and Kimmo in their mid 30s and the ages of the team as a whole are too widespread.
LA was built to win it all, they had big size defensive players all over the team, plus the coach was defensive minded, the flyers dont have that, i love briere and kimmo but they are not the same players, it's time to rebuild with younger bigger players on defense and offensive plus a coach that is defensive minded, we need another gm that can build this team like the kings.

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01-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
LA was built to win it all, they had big size defensive players all over the team, plus the coach was defensive minded, the flyers dont have that, i love briere and kimmo but they are not the same players, it's time to rebuild with younger bigger players on defense and offensive plus a coach that is defensive minded, we need another gm that can build this team like the kings.
Copying the previous season's winner rarely brings results.

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01-08-2013, 02:52 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Since when does a great defense provide a good offense? That would be news to the Kings, actually. Before they acquired Carter, they and their D-heavy system were near the bottom of the league in goal scoring.
because that's how the devils beat us and outshot us, why do you have so much hate on goalies? you probably dont even know how the flyers won a cup in 70s, bernie parent make good saves but he was the best because the team was the best, they knew how to hit, play defense, score goals. it doesnt take one guy, it's a team sport that's philly never wins anything because it's always about one guy and not the whole team.

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01-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
because that's how the devils beat us and outshot us, why do you have so much hate on goalies? you probably dont even know how the flyers won a cup in 70s, bernie parent make good saves but he was the best because the team was the best, they knew how to hit, play defense, score goals. it doesnt take one guy, it's a team sport that's philly never wins anything because it's always about one guy and not the whole team.
What makes you think I have "so much hate" on goalies? How did you possibly read my post about defense not guaranteeing offense, and then go off on a tangent about goalies and Bernie Parent?

My point remains: Defense does not guarantee offense.

Copying the previous winner does not guarantee success. The teams knocked out by the previous winner often adjust. For instance, a lot of Boston fans have said Philly built their Cup winning team because they adjusted that team in response to us.

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01-08-2013, 02:56 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
LA was built to win it all, they had big size defensive players all over the team, plus the coach was defensive minded, the flyers dont have that, i love briere and kimmo but they are not the same players, it's time to rebuild with younger bigger players on defense and offensive plus a coach that is defensive minded, we need another gm that can build this team like the kings.
The Kings have a great team. Brown/Kopitar/Richards/Carter and then Doughty played amazing and they also have Scuderi back there playing shut down D. That team is built with hard nosed players that just know the right way to play hockey. They play great team defense while also having a lot of skill on the offensive end. It would take one heck of a gm to pull off getting all of those type of players on one team.

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01-08-2013, 02:58 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
kings did it and won the cup, it was only 16 shots against quick, it proves defense wins cups plus a good defense gives a great offense which the flyers dont, why is that so hard for you to believe? not unless you were just looking the goalies, stupid stats, and not looking at the team effort,

its a team sport, it doesnt take one guy to win it, it's the whole team, if you think goalies are the saving grace, how do they play defense, how do they score?
I literally have no idea what you are saying. How is that a rebuttal to anything I said?

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01-08-2013, 03:29 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Sutter kept saying it was a 3-2 league and he was right. Quick faltered a little bit but the biggest difference with LA and the Flyers was their forwards prided themselves on their defensive play. Every player on all 4 lines is a good to great defensive player, you look at them on the PK and they have Kopitar/Brown and Richards/Carter, all excellent defensive players who can also score. Who do we have that is that complete?

I said it before and I'll say it again, you have an aging goalie on a very long contract and you have a bunch of young guys. There aren't many guys in their prime years with this team. We have Bryz as the #1 goalie from 31 to 40 years of age which is crazy, then there is Couts, BSchenn, Simmonds, Voracek, Giroux etc. who haven't entered their prime. Add in Briere and Kimmo in their mid 30s and the ages of the team as a whole are too widespread.
Aren't all living goalies "aging"?

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01-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #173
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I just hope we can finally get our damn team to work together.

Either the skaters showed up and Bryz didn't or Bryz would show up and the skaters didn't
^^^this^^^


it would be nice to see a full team effort all on the same nite..

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01-08-2013, 04:13 PM
  #174
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Aren't all living goalies "aging"?
Yes smartie pants!

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01-08-2013, 04:33 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Saying bryz was the best on the team really doesn't mean anything.That's ignoring the relative performance of everyone else. I bet there was a night that petr nedved was the best flyer on the ice. Well that team stunk ass, so who cares?

Even if we ignore that, basing any judgment on a 5 game sample size while ignoring aggregate data over the season makes no sense.
it means exactly this: Bryz was the best Flyer vs NJ & STILL some people insist on blaming him for them getting eliminated last year .... as if his sub Bryz year last year was why NJ beat us [since this thread has turned into "what was the reason we lost the past few years"]

i'll discuss last year through the 18th. after that, no more. i'm gonna focus & be positive about THIS SEASON. clean slate for EVERYONE. i'm not gonna fall into the negadelphia trap.

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