Also, some fans should try to remember that Subban is not the best player in the league and that he is not essential to our success. Subban is an RFA, thus his loss would be compensated.
He can go to Hell if he really wants a 50M$+ contract.
One can only hope Subban will follow the examples of Pacioretty and Price, who both IMO, took less money than they might have.
I'd like to see a 2 or 3 year deal at $4.5M. He can't get much more as there is only $6.3M in cap space.
Darren Dreger said this morning on TSN690 that he has heard that PK is looking for "Doughty-like" numbers... As in 8 years $7 million a year.
I wasn't nervous about the contract situation until I heard that...
If true, PK needs to have his head shaken.
I love the kid as much as the next guy but he's no where near Doughty who's won a cup and is one of the best D in the NHL.
PK hasn't earned that money yet as he's only had two inconsistent years thus far. Take the 2 year, prove yourself and then you can ask for the mooon. Not sure you'll get it then but you certainly don't deserve that now.
If he sits out the year, things could get really ugly. Not sure many teams willing to pony that up with new CBA that's hold teams responsible for signing silly contracts.
I don't get it, we can never catch a break on signing guys. Other teams get discounts all the time but not us.
Pacioretty was a discount.
As for Dreger, the guy is not plugged in at all on anything Habs related. Remember him suggesting JFJ would be a GM candidate? Remember him saying Gainey would be open to taking the Leafs GM job?
Last edited by Marc the Habs Fan: 01-08-2013 at 01:03 PM.
He is essential to our success. He is our #1 D and only 23 yo.
You don't let go this kind of asset.
Our #1 D does not translate to a #1 D.
Like shuteinside said - I like Subban too, but let's face reality: he's had two years with lots of ups and downs. And now we're supposed to give him a $55-60m contract? Isn't that a bit crazy?
Like shuteinside said - I like Subban too, but let's face reality: he's had two years with lots of ups and downs. And now we're supposed to give him a $55-60m contract? Isn't that a bit crazy?
It's hypothetical. He won't fetch this much money. I wouldn't put much thoughts on rumors.
He'll prolly get more than what he deserves, that's expected, but I very much doubt he gets something crazy.
I love the kid as much as the next guy but he's no where near Doughty who's won a cup and is one of the best D in the NHL.
PK hasn't earned that money yet as he's only had two inconsistent years thus far. Take the 2 year, prove yourself and then you can ask for the mooon. Not sure you'll get it then but you certainly don't deserve that now.
If he sits out the year, things could get really ugly. Not sure many teams willing to pony that up with new CBA that's hold teams responsible for signing silly contracts.
Subban has probably "earned" more than he will get, he has very little leverage as a RFA. That's the main factor.
As for Dreger, the guy is not plugged in at all on anything Habs related. Remember him suggesting JFJ would be a GM candidate? Remember him saying Gainey would be open to taking the Leafs GM job?
He might not be entirely right but there is a problem or this would have been done by now. Whatever the disagreement is it is major enough to hold up this signing.
Trading PK is not an option. The Habs will always lose this trade unless the return is a massive over payment, and I don't see that happening. Even if in terms of skill the players are similar in the event of a trade, I'm willing to bet anything that the return will not have the charisma or marketability of PK, so Habs will end up losing cash over it.
I'm willing to settle for any degree of "overpayment" in skill unless the players acquired in return are much older than Subban. Charisma and merchandise marketability don't enhance the Habs' chances of winning a Cup in the future, not to mention the alleged friction between PK and some of his team mates.
He might not be entirely right but there is a problem or this would have been done by now. Whatever the disagreement is it is major enough to hold up this signing.
The lockout isn't even officially over and no one can make signings/trades, so basically you are basing it off what happened over the summer. I'd be far more worried if he was the only one in this boat, but there are at least 4 other kids in the same situation (Benn, MDZ, Kulikov and O'Reilly), clearly teams had a hard time determing the value of these young players just coming out of their ELC with a CBA expiring.
I also think that Subban is ahead of Pacioretty in terms of his contribution to the team at this age but I am not sure regarding Price to be honest.
Also we should not undervalue the importance of the word "team" in "contractual team structure". The whole concept is not just about money imo: if you want to play with Montreal, you will need to put the team first... that kind of thing. A good example would be Hossa, a few years ago, signing for slightly less than his market value in an effort to respect Detroit's contractual team structure.
Subban is, by far, one of my favorite players but if he refuses to accept the team structure, I would be willing to ship him out of town. Subban must not forget that this contractual team structure's main objective is to build a contender. The question is not "Does the team see me in its future"; it is "Is Subban willing to make a sacrifice in an effort to build a contender"... imo!
First of all, what is this team concept? This is Bergevin's first year. It was a previous administration giving out 2 years after the ELC. Maybe Bergevin wants to follow the same footsteps, maybe not.
What if Galchenyuk becomes a superstar right off the bat (not gonna happen, but hypothetically, or replace him by a future kid that we draft and becomes an instant superstar right off his rookie year), will he also have to abide by those same rules or will he get a huge deal right away?
Gainey was the most strict GM as for following his plans. No re-signals during the season, yet he did it with Koivu.
Now, we don't even know what PK is asking, and I don't believe for a second he's looking for a Doughty like deal. But maybe signing him to more than 2 years isn't the end of the world.
As for where Price was, there is no debate. He had a horrible year where he couldn't buy a win and Halak outplayed him. PK didn't go through that.
Hossa signed in Detroit for 1 year because he wanted to win the cup. It failed and he signed a 12year deal at 63M.
Also, you don't just ship a guy out of town because he wants extra years. I mean, if it's a guy you're worrying about because you don't know how good he actually is, then okay. But PK is a proven talent, and if you move him, you better get a massive return. Otherwise, not only will you likely lose this trade, but the Habs also will lose a ton of cash because PK is a huge marketing player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs
Also, some fans should try to remember that Subban is not the best player in the league and that he is not essential to our success. Subban is an RFA, thus his loss would be compensated.
He can go to Hell if he really wants a 50M$+ contract.
If he doesn't want a 50M+, he can go to heaven?
I wonder if LA would have won that cup had they told Doughty to go to hell because he wanted more cash.
Not that PK even wants this, Perno said both side would agree to a 4year deal, so it will likely be very far from 50M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeriousHabs
You also don't give it 15% of your cap space for 8 years as an RFA.
Cap will go down and then back up, and that's considering PK gets like an 8M cap hit. Who in their right mind thinks he'll get that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu
Our #1 D does not translate to a #1 D.
Like shuteinside said - I like Subban too, but let's face reality: he's had two years with lots of ups and downs. And now we're supposed to give him a $55-60m contract? Isn't that a bit crazy?
Yes, it is crazy, which is why it's likely NOT TRUE.
Heck, Crosby did not even get such a deal after his ELC, and people here think this is what PK is asking for?
People are putting more importance on what Dreger said than Perno, which is crazy.
He might not be entirely right but there is a problem or this would have been done by now. Whatever the disagreement is it is major enough to hold up this signing.
It's only a problem until he starts to miss actual regular season games. Until then, it's nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E
Yes, it is crazy, which is why it's likely NOT TRUE.
Heck, Crosby did not even get such a deal after his ELC, and people here think this is what PK is asking for?
People are putting more importance on what Dreger said than Perno, which is crazy.
I agree. I don't know why you think by debating another poster's comments on the rumor it means I in turn accept it as fact.
It's only a problem until he starts to miss actual regular season games. Until then, it's nothing.
And time will work very much against him if he's forced to take a short term deal. There are only, what, about 100 days of pay in this half-season? Every day he misses is money lost from a salary that is already only a bit more than 50% its face value. If he misses a couple weeks, he has already lost the difference between $4M and $5M on the face value of the contract, for example.
EDIT: Come to think of it, it probably doesn't help him much to miss time trying for a long term deal either... the Habs could well fall out of any playoff hopes pretty quickly sans Subban. That would quickly take motivation to settle on terms away from them.
All signs really ought to point to this being easy to wrap up. I know PK/his camp were really hoping for a perfect deal that would set him up long term. But the way things have transpired in the bigger picture, maybe they should really just come back to the table in the summer and worry about it then. Get whatever 1 year deal works approximately for now, and get on with the season, there just isn't time to go too deep on things now.
Last edited by Blind Gardien: 01-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.
Renaud Lavoie @RenLavoieRDS
Don Meehan and Marc Bergevin will talk Thursday concerning PK Subban contract. It could be a face to face meeting. Not finalize yet.
Just saw an interview with PK, he says he and his agent are on the same page, and he did not seem concerned at all....he will be at camp guys...relax...
