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01-08-2013, 11:27 AM
  #276
cneely
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
They wouldn't be on the hook for anything if TT isn't playing- they don't have to pay a dime.
I suppose that's true, they would just suspend him in turn.

At that point then, it would be a favor. How much would it cost for a favor from a rival team. Certainly it would have to be a non division, and probably non conference trading partner. Hopefully if we have an opportunity to make a move at the deadline, Chia can make a move like this to free up the space.

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01-08-2013, 11:39 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
Right. Because Kaoz's words in Timmy's mouth are always going to be more accurate than what Thomas has actually stated with his own.

It's only difficult to come to any other conclusion, if you place your own agenda in highest priority.
Old Cheech and Chong joke.....

Russian general and a low ranking soldier are trudging through snow in Siberia when they come across what looks remarkably like a pile of dog crap.

General says "feel".
Soldier bends over, takes his glove off, and feels the dog crap.
"What does if feel like, comrade?"
"Feels like dog crap, general."

General says "smell"
Soldier bends over, gets in close and smells the dog crap.
"What does if smell like, comrade?"
"Smells like dog crap, general"

General says "taste"
Soldier bends over, picks up a piece of the dog crap and puts it in his mouth.
"What does if taste like, comrade?"
"Tastes like dog crap, general"

"Hmmm, good thing we not step in it".


Bad joke, but the point is if it walks, sounds, looks, and feels like a duck it's probably a duck. TT didn't want to get traded to somewhere he had no control of, probably felt a little unappreciated, missed his family and wanted to get back to core values, so he bailed. No big deal.

There's no reason to not believe the three "f's" played a big part in his decision, but common sense suggests there were other things involved as well.

Again, no big deal. TT is not a demon by any stretch, but being a great goalie and producing great results does not a hero make, either.

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01-08-2013, 12:21 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by cneely View Post
I suppose that's true, they would just suspend him in turn.

At that point then, it would be a favor. How much would it cost for a favor from a rival team. Certainly it would have to be a non division, and probably non conference trading partner. Hopefully if we have an opportunity to make a move at the deadline, Chia can make a move like this to free up the space.
It wouldn't be a favor because Chia could send a late pick along with him. It would be a pick for nothing.

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01-08-2013, 12:25 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
It wouldn't be a favor because Chia could send a late pick along with him. It would be a pick for nothing.
That's what I'm saying. The pick would be in return for doing us the favor of taking on the cap hit.

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01-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
It's funny how people here are upset about Thomas' decision and are calling him out for not honoring his contract, yet a lot of the same people had no problem when the Swedish Mystery Man, Carl Soderberg (yes, I did really go there ), welched out on his contract. Instead, we got 54 threads of how he was honorable because he wanted to stay home and play for his home town team and how that was cool, yet a guy who actually delivered a Stanley Cup win is a POS. Incredible. Love HF, it's so logical and rational.
WHAT!! Omg you're so racist!

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01-08-2013, 12:51 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Concessionaire View Post
I don't have any hard feelings towards Timmy. Sure he's kind of a nut, but I can't fault him for putting family first. And that 2011 playoff run was one of the great Bruins experiences of my life, thanks in a large part to his unbelievable play in goal. Best of luck to him.
That's fine and good to put family first. But why doesn't he retire and make it official? I think TT's actions are hurting the team's cap space is it not?

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01-08-2013, 12:52 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by vjcsmoke View Post
That's fine and good to put family first. But why doesn't he retire and make it official? I think TT's actions are hurting the team's cap space is it not?
We've been through this. Him retiring would have no impact on our cap space. His contract would still count.

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01-08-2013, 01:06 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Do you even think that's possible? If Burke is running that team I doubt he's even thinking Thomas with those other guys in the mix.

And if he does come back, not with the Bruins, I wish him the worst of luck.(on the ice)
what i have learned about tim thomas is that it's really hard to attach 'never' to him. i sincerely doubt it'll happen, but i'd bet a dollar on it in vegas if the odds were favorable.

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No way. Miller would hire Tonya Harding to do a knee job on TT before he'd let that happen.
gawd i hope someone trucks miller again this year. would be worth the 3 game suspension to hear him call the guy a piece of ****, and then hide behind the immeasurably tough paul gaustad (oh wait, now they have a real goon )

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01-08-2013, 04:13 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by NathanSeguin View Post
That and the fact he is under contract if he just says he needs time off, but he no longer has a contract if he retires.

Tim and his agent negotiated a contract and signed on the dotted line. He has an obligation to honor that contract IMO. If he doesn't want to, he should then retire.
Refresh my memory.... every owner signed a contract with NBC, with arenas, with employees and with players for this season. Did they uphold those? Did they put games on NBC that I missed? Were players getting paid for the last 3 months?

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01-08-2013, 04:16 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by dafoomie View Post
Other athletes have committed murder, ****, domestic violence, animal cruelty, and are still embraced by fans. What was Tim Thomas's unforgivable sin? Having a different political opinion and choosing family over money.

You know why Visnovsky's situation is different (as if I should even indulge this)? He's walking out on a $3 million dollar contract to make $7 million in Russia. Tim Thomas is staying home and not getting paid anything, not demanding a new contract or extension, not demanding a trade or anything else.
This. If Thomas wanted to sit out from the B's but play somewhere else I'd be the first one saying he's breaking his contract. If he wants to play professional hockey anywhere on planet Earth he is obligated to play for the Bruins.

I just disagree with the notion that a player is obligated to play when he doesn't want to and is willing to not get paid.

Indentured servitude ended a long time ago.

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01-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
It wouldn't be a favor because Chia could send a late pick along with him. It would be a pick for nothing.
Thomas and a 4th for future considerations.

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01-08-2013, 04:22 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Refresh my memory.... every owner signed a contract with NBC, with arenas, with employees and with players for this season. Did they uphold those? Did they put games on NBC that I missed? Were players getting paid for the last 3 months?
Everyone of them was signed with the knowledge that a new CBA had to be hashed out and could mean a work stoppage in many cases, containing concessions for just that event.

I somehow doubt Thomas and his agent negotiated a 4 year contract admitting he'd opt out of playing the 4th. Most likely were he to state as much openly to Chiarelli he wouldn't have gotten the terms he did as Chiarelli no doubt paid him a bit more for the NTC'less 4th year. That's an assumption, but 99.99999% of time is how those things go.

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01-08-2013, 06:24 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
This. If Thomas wanted to sit out from the B's but play somewhere else I'd be the first one saying he's breaking his contract. If he wants to play professional hockey anywhere on planet Earth he is obligated to play for the Bruins.

I just disagree with the notion that a player is obligated to play when he doesn't want to and is willing to not get paid.

Indentured servitude ended a long time ago.
He breaks his side of the contract, and the Bruins are not obligated to hold up their end, ie paying him. I would never do it, if I sign a contract of my own free will, I live up to it, but I'm sure he has his reasons, so meh, no big deal here.

Indentured servitude though? Wow. The guy signed a contract of his own free will to make multi millions playing a game. This is a far cry from indentured servitude. A far, far cry.

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01-08-2013, 10:30 PM
  #289
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Ted Williams retired right after hitting a home run even though there were games remaining on the schedule. No one sued him or docked his pay.

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01-09-2013, 06:48 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Ted Williams retired right after hitting a home run even though there were games remaining on the schedule. No one sued him or docked his pay.
Are you trying to get nominated for most ridiculous post of 2013? If so, you have my vote.

Ted Williams hit a home run in his final at bat before missing the final three game stand of the 1960 season against the Yankees -- a season in which the Red Sox finished 32 GAMES OUT OF FIRST PLACE!

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01-09-2013, 07:18 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Number8 View Post
Are you trying to get nominated for most ridiculous post of 2013? If so, you have my vote.

Ted Williams hit a home run in his final at bat before missing the final three game stand of the 1960 season against the Yankees -- a season in which the Red Sox finished 32 GAMES OUT OF FIRST PLACE!
He'd have caught heat for that...and a lot of other things this day in age. Modern press would eat him alive.

Roberto Clemente was just as off the wall than Manny he'd be crucified if he was a modern athlete.

The Thomas thing is ridiculous. He didn't want to get shipped to Edmonton after what he did in Boston and Chiarelli was not going to let him battle Rask the next fall at camp. So instead of retiring and screwing the team he did something which gave the Bruins a way to wrangle around his cap hit.

And people are still bashing him. Its a joke and I wish those "fans" would find a new team to root for under no circumstances did Tim deserve to be banished to Edmonton after what he did for us just because his NTC had expired and Chia held the cards.


A YEAR AFTER WINNING THIS TEAM THE CUP HE WAS REFUSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPETE FOR HIS JOB!!! He was going to be shipped out to the highest bidder that summer. He didn't want that. He helped the team not retiring. Why the **** can't people get that through their thick skulls?

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01-09-2013, 07:25 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
He'd have caught heat for that...and a lot of other things this day in age. Modern press would eat him alive.

Roberto Clemente was just as off the wall than Manny he'd be crucified if he was a modern athlete.
I agree completely. Modern press and social media scrutinize everything excessively -- often not in the context of the bigger picture. Ted Williams would not have fared particularly well in today's age -- same with a whole host of players.

Many of us enjoyed Derek Sanderson's new book -- imagine him in today's world! He'd never get out alive.

My point was simply that raising the point that Ted Williams somehow cut out on the Red Sox for the final three games in a season he told everyone far and wide at the outset was his last is just plain silly -- and that would be true in any age or media situation.

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01-09-2013, 08:21 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
He'd have caught heat for that...and a lot of other things this day in age. Modern press would eat him alive.

Roberto Clemente was just as off the wall than Manny he'd be crucified if he was a modern athlete.

The Thomas thing is ridiculous. He didn't want to get shipped to Edmonton after what he did in Boston and Chiarelli was not going to let him battle Rask the next fall at camp. So instead of retiring and screwing the team he did something which gave the Bruins a way to wrangle around his cap hit.

And people are still bashing him. Its a joke and I wish those "fans" would find a new team to root for under no circumstances did Tim deserve to be banished to Edmonton after what he did for us just because his NTC had expired and Chia held the cards.


A YEAR AFTER WINNING THIS TEAM THE CUP HE WAS REFUSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPETE FOR HIS JOB!!! He was going to be shipped out to the highest bidder that summer. He didn't want that. He helped the team not retiring. Why the **** can't people get that through their thick skulls?
That isn't fact. He may have taken the year off to spend time with his family. We don't know the facts.

I'll never bash Tim Thomas. But any athlete who decides to stop playing because he doesn't want to go somewhere else is being incredibly immature. He definitely doesn't deserve that fate, but that's the business and he shouldn't just quit because of it.

At this point I'll take his word that he's spending time with his family.

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01-09-2013, 08:36 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
He'd have caught heat for that...and a lot of other things this day in age. Modern press would eat him alive.

Roberto Clemente was just as off the wall than Manny he'd be crucified if he was a modern athlete.

The Thomas thing is ridiculous. He didn't want to get shipped to Edmonton after what he did in Boston and Chiarelli was not going to let him battle Rask the next fall at camp. So instead of retiring and screwing the team he did something which gave the Bruins a way to wrangle around his cap hit.

And people are still bashing him. Its a joke and I wish those "fans" would find a new team to root for under no circumstances did Tim deserve to be banished to Edmonton after what he did for us just because his NTC had expired and Chia held the cards.


A YEAR AFTER WINNING THIS TEAM THE CUP HE WAS REFUSED THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMPETE FOR HIS JOB!!! He was going to be shipped out to the highest bidder that summer. He didn't want that. He helped the team not retiring. Why the **** can't people get that through their thick skulls?
Where did you get the bolded from? Did you read it? Hear it?

What I heard was Thomas told the Bruins, pretty much right after the Washington series, that he wanted to take a year off to spend tim with his family, friends and faith.

I didn't hear that he was refused an opportunity to compete for "his" job.

That would certainly put a spin on it that I didn't know about.

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01-09-2013, 08:37 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Rubber Biscuit View Post
That isn't fact. He may have taken the year off to spend time with his family. We don't know the facts.

I'll never bash Tim Thomas. But any athlete who decides to stop playing because he doesn't want to go somewhere else is being incredibly immature. He definitely doesn't deserve that fate, but that's the business and he shouldn't just quit because of it.

At this point I'll take his word that he's spending time with his family.
No athlete will ever admit to those other possible reasons for abandoning a contract. Very rarely do you get one come out and say "I just don't want to play with this team." Doesn't make sense for them to do so, they'll all use the "I'm doing this for family" line because it evokes empathy from the average fan. We all want to spend more time with family.

Thomas used that as reasoning, but so did guys like Radulov. It's all subjective, no one is really wrong. How you choose to remember Thomas, Radulov, Soderberg, etc... is completely subjective. Time is better spent worrying about the players that actually want to play for the Bruins.

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01-09-2013, 09:18 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
No athlete will ever admit to those other possible reasons for abandoning a contract. Very rarely do you get one come out and say "I just don't want to play with this team." Doesn't make sense for them to do so, they'll all use the "I'm doing this for family" line because it evokes empathy from the average fan. We all want to spend more time with family.

Thomas used that as reasoning, but so did guys like Radulov. It's all subjective, no one is really wrong. How you choose to remember Thomas, Radulov, Soderberg, etc... is completely subjective. Time is better spent worrying about the players that actually want to play for the Bruins.
I agree.

Its fine that the Bruins decided 2011-2012 would be Tims last season. But the issue of the final year of his contract was always going to come up. Since Tim had no NTC he had no control. His options were to play for Edmonton or retire. Being a Bruin and competing with Rask for 12-13 was not on the table. Of course this can't be proven why would either party admit to it? Svedberg and Khudobin are good depth behind Rask the B's didn't necessarily make a bad call. Stuff happens.

No problems with what TT chose to do. No problems either if he comes back next year.

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01-09-2013, 09:42 AM
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
No athlete will ever admit to those other possible reasons for abandoning a contract. Very rarely do you get one come out and say "I just don't want to play with this team." Doesn't make sense for them to do so, they'll all use the "I'm doing this for family" line because it evokes empathy from the average fan. We all want to spend more time with family.

Thomas used that as reasoning, but so did guys like Radulov. It's all subjective, no one is really wrong. How you choose to remember Thomas, Radulov, Soderberg, etc... is completely subjective. Time is better spent worrying about the players that actually want to play for the Bruins.
Translation: The reason the player and the team gave don't suit my preconceived notions so I'll simply assume it's a lie.

If Chiarelli was willing to offer an extension to get him to report, don't you think that offering not to trade him would be easier? And if his objective were to prevent a trade to a team he doesn't want to play for this year and go to a place of his choosing next year, wouldn't what he's doing now run completely counter to that? He could play out his final half season, get paid and become a free agent, but taking the year off runs the risk of being traded to a team that he doesn't want to play for who can toll his contract. It doesn't make any sense. And it kills his value on the free agent market.

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01-09-2013, 09:51 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by dafoomie View Post
Translation: The reason the player and the team gave don't suit my preconceived notions so I'll simply assume it's a lie.

If Chiarelli was willing to offer an extension to get him to report, don't you think that offering not to trade him would be easier? And if his objective were to prevent a trade to a team he doesn't want to play for this year and go to a place of his choosing next year, wouldn't what he's doing now run completely counter to that? He could play out his final half season, get paid and become a free agent, but taking the year off runs the risk of being traded to a team that he doesn't want to play for who can toll his contract. It doesn't make any sense.
I think you translate just as well as google translate does.

Actually, it means we don't know what's a lie and what isn't. If you choose only to strictly believe what comes out of the players mouths then they will never be in the wrong. If that suits you so be it, congrats you're an Artemis clone. If you're choosing to believe what Thomas said simply because you want to that's fine as well, have at her.

No point in arguing over who's right and who's wrong. I lost a lot of respect for Thomas because of how he left and personally that says a bit because I always thought of myself as one of his biggest supporters right from day 1... if that assaults anyone's senses they'll have to deal with it. I'm not changing my mind, nor am I asking anyone who still holds him in the highest regard to change theirs. It's not like I want to launch a smear campaign against the guy or try to convince myself he wasn't the best Bruins goalie I've ever seen, possibly one of the best goalies period. I just hate the way he chose to go out and don't agree with it because I don't believe it was all based on the generic "I want to be with the family rhetoric" he rolled out.

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01-09-2013, 11:20 AM
  #299
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Is Thomas eligible for the new CBA's "compliance buyout?"
I was wondering the same thing. I'm sure we'll figure it out before the season starts. If not, I'll be curious if Boston just pays him for this season to get his contract off the books for next season, especially with the cap dropping as much as it is next year.

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01-09-2013, 01:12 PM
  #300
cneely
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I was wondering the same thing. I'm sure we'll figure it out before the season starts. If not, I'll be curious if Boston just pays him for this season to get his contract off the books for next season, especially with the cap dropping as much as it is next year.
No.
The compliance buyouts are before the start of the next 2 years, not this year. Thomas will be off the books this year. They also don't need to pay him. If he doesn't show, they don't have to pay him, but he does, however, still count against the cap.

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