I know it's easy to take a run at the Leafs but there's pretty much no question that organization is in better shape now than it was when Brian Burke took over.
they're in better shape than they were before Burke took over, but in worse shape than they would be if someone besides Burke had been running them this entire time. This hypothetical person would have rebuilt the team properly, mainly by keeping the picks that would have given them Hamilton and Seguin.
IMO their roster is 100% garbage outside of Gardiner. I don't see how we can make a deal with them for Lu. They literally have nothing to offer us. It would have to be a 3-way deal. Schroeder is a better option than Bozak. Players like Kulemin, Kadri, Lupul are all garbage and useless to us.
I know it's easy to take a run at the Leafs but there's pretty much no question that organization is in better shape now than it was when Brian Burke took over.
Take a look at the opening night roster for the Leafs a few weeks before Burke was hired.
A forward group built around Nik Antropov, Jason Blake, Nik Hagman, Alexei Ponikarovsky and Matt Stajan. A blueline with a rapidly declining Tomas Kaberle, an already-declined Pavel Kubina and nobody else who could even be expected to be an impact player. Vesa Toskala in net.
Right now they have two players better than anyone I've mentioned (Kessel and Phaneuf) and some solid young-ish players to go with them, they have some young players with incredibly high ceilings (JVR and Gardiner) on the roster and a collection of other prospects that should produce a few NHLers and probably a key player or two. It's not exactly the class of the league and some of Burke's FA signings are holding the team back right now but that can change (and Burke may have done enough to be rewarded with the right to be around to try to correct his mistakes).
Their goaltending still sucks though.
I should hope so, anyone that loses that much should benefit from the draft eventually. That really isn't saying a whole lot. They simply haven't done what was proper. They didn't rebuild cause Burke quoted 1967 is what the fans have been waiting for and need to get better now. That statement was made when he took over, I'm not sure what year that was but you know the rest, not even a playoff berth since the last lock out. Are they really in better shape with the rebuild Burke did or would have they been better off to have it done properly adding youth and only youth the way Edmonton obviously did or even to look at what Pittsburgh has done addressing their future for the back end. Pittsburgh knows they have the guns up front but to see what they have done to build on their back end is pretty impressive. These are just 2 examples of the right way to do things and see success rather then what Burke has done, sure excited to see how they mishandle Morgan Rielly and his development. Anyways Luongo
they're in better shape than they were before Burke took over, but in worse shape than they would be if someone besides Burke had been running them this entire time. This hypothetical person would have rebuilt the team properly, mainly by keeping the picks that would have given them Hamilton and Seguin.
IMO their roster is 100% garbage outside of Gardiner. I don't see how we can make a deal with them for Lu. They literally have nothing to offer us. It would have to be a 3-way deal. Schroeder is a better option than Bozak. Players like Kulemin, Kadri, Lupul are all garbage and useless to us.
Kulemin, Lupul, and Kadri are all garbage and useless to us?
Kulemin can basically be another Higgins-type player.
Lupul is a bonafide top 6 winger who even if he doesn't match last years production would surely help with our scoring.
Kadri is a borderline blue chip prospect with significant offensive potential.
Sure, we wouldn't be getting an all-star player back, but would you really turn down a package of Kulemin, Kadri, and a 1st or 2nd? Or Lupul and Kulemin?
Kulemin, Lupul, and Kadri are all garbage and useless to us?
Kulemin can basically be another Higgins-type player.
Lupul is a bonafide top 6 winger who even if he doesn't match last years production would surely help with our scoring.
Kadri is a borderline blue chip prospect with significant offensive potential.
Sure, we wouldn't be getting an all-star player back, but would you really turn down a package of Kulemin, Kadri, and a 1st or 2nd? Or Lupul and Kulemin?
Yes, no to both package, if we are getting crappy players like this then we are better off starting the season with two goalies.
Possible... But I consider that additional cap payment as peanuts, in the grand scheme of things... I don't think Gillis bites on what Tallon is prepared to offer right now, for that bag of peanuts... At that time, what would the cap be projected to be? 80 million? Something like that? Mid-70's? Worth the risk, IMO... At the least, not enough of a negative to not wait a while longer if the "right deal" isn't there right now... To the right team, at the right time, Luongo is worth an awful lot, IMHO... Far greater potential impact than the cap hit penalty if Lu retires early... It's worth waiting a while longer to see if the right team, at the right time, is there... It could be a defining moment, in that the return can have a real impact...
At the deadline? I see that as more likely than now (even though now is also possible)... Here, Tallon can see where his team is at, Theodore is a few inches closer to retirement, draft position can be roughly measured (but better than now), as well as impact for Luongo to maybe make the difference between being in the playoffs or out, or if a playoff team, an extra push to try and go farther, etc... Also, Gillis might be prepared to accept a little less, if the return contains components to help for a playoff run...
Still, I think it'll be (or around) the draft... Florida should be more positioned to take on Luongo (and clearer picture of the benefit, given the team), and Burke should be showing up drunk late night at Gillis' door... Couple other teams too should be more interested... At this time around the draft, Vancouver and Florida could maybe do something too, like include Jovo in a trade, have Vancouver buy out the contract, then Jovo has the chance to re-sign with Florida at a better term contract (if this is possible)... Would be a win for Jovo, too... Still, can think about doing things like this for mutual benefit, when trading between friendly, opposite ends of the NHL, GM's... At the draft, things are positioned to work out well for Vancouver, Florida and Luongo, IMHO... Would work out even better if Luongo leaves the same year he helps bring Vancouver the cup...
All good possiblities. If he is retained through to the draft though, can you imagine these boards until then? Not looking forward to that at all.
Kulemin, Lupul, and Kadri are all garbage and useless to us?
Kulemin can basically be another Higgins-type player.
Lupul is a bonafide top 6 winger who even if he doesn't match last years production would surely help with our scoring.
Kadri is a borderline blue chip prospect with significant offensive potential.
Sure, we wouldn't be getting an all-star player back, but would you really turn down a package of Kulemin, Kadri, and a 1st or 2nd? Or Lupul and Kulemin?
Personally I think we're trying to win a cup this season, not fill out our roster. We need players that will make our club better in the short term. Kulemin is a one-season wonder at this point, no reason to think he can contribute better than the players we have. Kadri has not proven he can play in the NHL. Lupul is a lazy, soft as butter player and a dressing room cancer.
We're better off keeping Luongo than dealing him to Toronto. There's nobody they will trade us that will help us this season. Gillis must wait for another suitor to emerge.
I know it's easy to take a run at the Leafs but there's pretty much no question that organization is in better shape now than it was when Brian Burke took over.
Burke should be given credit, for turning the Leafs from a bottom feeder, to one of the best bottom feeders in the league...
Still a clown organization... but now, a serious clown... Like a mime... Less of a child's entertainer making goaltenders out of balloons, and more using hands to suggest the invisible box they are trapped in...
In the end though, still a clown...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean
All good possiblities. If he is retained through to the draft though, can you imagine these boards until then? Not looking forward to that at all.
Clown entertainment! I've decided it's best to stay out of the Luongo thread, trade board until Lu is traded :-)
Last edited by I in the Eye: 01-08-2013 at 05:00 PM.
Burke should be given credit, for turning the Leafs from a bottom feeder, to one of the best bottom feeders in the league...
Still a clown organization... but now, a serious clown... Like a mime... Less of a child's entertainer making goaltenders out of balloons, and more using hands to suggest the invisible box they are trapped in...
In the end though, still a clown...
I'd just like you to know, that just about everytime I read one of your posts I literally laugh out loud.
they're in better shape than they were before Burke took over, but in worse shape than they would be if someone besides Burke had been running them this entire time. This hypothetical person would have rebuilt the team properly, mainly by keeping the picks that would have given them Hamilton and Seguin.
IMO their roster is 100% garbage outside of Gardiner. I don't see how we can make a deal with them for Lu. They literally have nothing to offer us. It would have to be a 3-way deal. Schroeder is a better option than Bozak. Players like Kulemin, Kadri, Lupul are all garbage and useless to us.
You forgot Jarred Knight. His potential is quite high. Bad injury this year, but will be back soon.
Burke really got burned on that trade. I sure don't see him offering up a good deal for Lu.
they're in better shape than they were before Burke took over, but in worse shape than they would be if someone besides Burke had been running them this entire time. This hypothetical person would have rebuilt the team properly, mainly by keeping the picks that would have given them Hamilton and Seguin.
LOL. Maybe they would have, Burkie has done pretty well (Kessel deal aside - his one bad mistake in four years, not bad if you're willing to be objective about it) in the trade department.. is this hypothetical person the complete package, does he deal as well as Burke and hit home runs in the free agency department as well?
I'm not saying Burke has been perfect, close to it or even good enough.. just that those saying the Leafs aren't better now than they were in 2008 are getting carried away with themselves.
Quote:
IMO their roster is 100% garbage outside of Gardiner. I don't see how we can make a deal with them for Lu. They literally have nothing to offer us. It would have to be a 3-way deal. Schroeder is a better option than Bozak. Players like Kulemin, Kadri, Lupul are all garbage and useless to us.
"Garbage," what a ridiculous thing to say about legitimate NHL players (the Leafs have a few, just not enough).
Guys like Phaneuf are plenty good, just not cheap enough. Gunnarsson is a legitimate player. Grabovski is maybe a million overpaid, tops. Etc, etc.
I wouldn't trade Luongo to the Leafs for what their fans want to give up for him, but that doesn't mean the organization is top to bottom trash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
Burke should be given credit, for turning the Leafs from a bottom feeder, to one of the best bottom feeders in the league...
Still a clown organization... but now, a serious clown... Like a mime... Less of a child's entertainer making goaltenders out of balloons, and more using hands to suggest the invisible box they are trapped in...
Burke should be given credit, for turning the Leafs from a bottom feeder, to one of the best bottom feeders in the league...
Still a clown organization... but now, a serious clown... Like a mime... Less of a child's entertainer making goaltenders out of balloons, and more using hands to suggest the invisible box they are trapped in...
In the end though, still a clown...
Clown entertainment! I've decided it's best to stay out of the Luongo thread, trade board until Lu is traded :-)
Lol, the metaphors... oh the metaphors. Side-splitting. A serious clown now, like a Mime. Hahaha
The Lu thread on the T&R board is a war zone. A front-line of chaos and mayhem. I fear, I will not survive.
Burke should be given credit, for turning the Leafs from a bottom feeder, to one of the best bottom feeders in the league...
Still a clown organization... but now, a serious clown... Like a mime... Less of a child's entertainer making goaltenders out of balloons, and more using hands to suggest the invisible box they are trapped in...
You forgot Jarred Knight. His potential is quite high. Bad injury this year, but will be back soon.
Burke really got burned on that trade. I sure don't see him offering up a good deal for Lu.
It's not even about Seguin, or Hamilton, or Knight, its likely they would have had back to back top 3 picks if they actually rebuilt properly.
Kessel helped them 'calgary flame' themselves to mediocrity.
Everyone says oooh the Leafs missed out on Seguin, and Hamilton, well really the 2011 draft and how bad the Leafs should have been with a proper rebuild, may have had the chance to get their ever elusive center in RNH or Couturier, or maybe Huberdeau or Landeskog to build around.
That's why I'll always scratch my head at that deal.
Most of us don't feel we have a good chance. We also don't feel that Luongo makes us a contender....better? Absolutely. But the cost to aquire Luongo is what has most of us shying away.
I guess it is a matter of preference then. Luongo would give you guys a much better chance imo of making the playoffs. I personally would want to see my team make the playoffs. Yeah you could build for the future forever but that's no guarantee really in my mind that some indeterminate amount of time down the road you will necessarily have all the pieces. Hard to gauge how well your prospects will turn out. In Lou you know you're getting a very good goaltender. And frankly i don't believe Leafs fans really know just how good Lou is. They remember a couple Hawks games or the finals against the Bruins when the fact is without Lou i doubt the Canucks even make the playoffs some of those seasons when the twins were not as good nor Kesler and he literally stole any number of games for us in 2-1 , 1-0, 3-2 victories during that time.
Done Deal! #Luongo & Cap Flex to #Leafs. Frattin, Bozak & 2nd Rounder to #Canucks. Expect Announcement Thursday (Following Signed CBA) #NHL
Not sure if posted yet, pretty funny - causing a stir. Some Toronto Sun columnist who hasn't tweeted since Aug and is NOT verified posted this. Considering they can't talk trades right now, not sure what this person it thinking. Needless to say, I think Vancouver police have been dispatched to downtown Van just in case.
Not sure if posted yet. Some Toronto Sun columnist who hasn't tweeted since Aug and is NOT verified posted this. Needless to say, I think Vancouver police have been dispatched to downtown Van just in case.
LOL.. yeah that has to be a joke. No chance Gillis does that deal. Unless during the lock out he became a raging alcoholic.
Not sure if posted yet, pretty funny - causing a stir. Some Toronto Sun columnist who hasn't tweeted since Aug and is NOT verified posted this. Considering they can't talk trades right now, not sure what this person it thinking. Needless to say, I think Vancouver police have been dispatched to downtown Van just in case.
Zero chance Gillis accepts that.
We could easily get a better offer from Florida.
LOL.. yeah that has to be a joke. No chance Gillis does that deal. Unless during the lock out he became a raging alcoholic.
Heavily into drugs and a raging alcoholic would cover it, lol. I bet there's going to be a few of these type of tweets in the next while. Trolls having some fun - causing a stir in Van.
Not a chance Vancouver does that trade. How could Gillis go from asking for Gardiner+5 th overall at the draft to settling for that. Honestly don't even want Luongo traded to Toronto anymore. Weiss from Florida please.
