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Players and Owners reach an agreement (MOD: circa 5am ET 1/6/13)

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01-08-2013, 12:21 PM
  #401
MoreOrr
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
If either side chooses to opt out after year 8 (and I believe there needs to be notification a fair bit before the actual opt-out) then the CBA would end at the 8 year mark and they would need to negotiate a new CBA just like at the end of the any CBA.

I'm also pretty sure that one side or the other would actually have to decide the end the CBA at the ten year mark; otherwise, it would just continue. That was the case with the 2005 CBA which actually ended in 2011 but was extended until 2012 because neither side decided to end it in 2011.
So even the 10-year mark isn't set in stone. hmmm.

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01-08-2013, 12:33 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
If either side chooses to opt out after year 8 (and I believe there needs to be notification a fair bit before the actual opt-out) then the CBA would end at the 8 year mark and they would need to negotiate a new CBA just like at the end of the any CBA.

I'm also pretty sure that one side or the other would actually have to decide the end the CBA at the ten year mark; otherwise, it would just continue. That was the case with the 2005 CBA which actually ended in 2011 but was extended until 2012 because neither side decided to end it in 2011.
Not quite. The NHLPA had an explicit unilateral option to extend the CBA for 1 year ('11-'12) which they exercised. Had they not, the NHL would assuredly have filed to have it terminate as scheduled on Sept 15, 2011.

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01-08-2013, 12:35 PM
  #403
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
If either side chooses to opt out after year 8 (and I believe there needs to be notification a fair bit before the actual opt-out) then the CBA would end at the 8 year mark and they would need to negotiate a new CBA just like at the end of the any CBA.

I'm also pretty sure that one side or the other would actually have to decide the end the CBA at the ten year mark; otherwise, it would just continue. That was the case with the 2005 CBA which actually ended in 2011 but was extended until 2012 because neither side decided to end it in 2011.
NHLPA had the option to extend and they did. If it was up to the BofG and Bettman I'm sure they would have ended it back then.

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01-08-2013, 12:45 PM
  #404
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Not quite. The NHLPA had an explicit unilateral option to extend the CBA for 1 year ('11-'12) which they exercised. Had they not, the NHL would assuredly have filed to have it terminate as scheduled on Sept 15, 2011.
Again, sort of relating back to my question, with the date flexibility (2011/2012, or 8 to 10 years) couldn't it be written in the CBA that if one side wants to renegotiate the CBA at the earlier date, that then at least the negotiation process should begin, thus allowing until the ultimate date in order to get the CBA done?

Always waiting until the damn thing expires doesn't seem to be working. Incorporating the option of a 'mandatory' negotiation period before the CBA expires could be another alternative to try.

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01-08-2013, 12:48 PM
  #405
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Telling them to negotiate doesn't mean that they will either.

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01-08-2013, 01:08 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
So even the 10-year mark isn't set in stone. hmmm.
It's not even 8 years - we're half way through year 1 - it's (potentially) really only 7 full seasons. Six if they start bickering during the pre-opt-out year.

 
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01-08-2013, 01:12 PM
  #407
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Telling them to negotiate doesn't mean that they will either.
Sure next time they should negotiate Bettmans way. Take this it's our final offer.

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01-08-2013, 01:36 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Again, sort of relating back to my question, with the date flexibility (2011/2012, or 8 to 10 years) couldn't it be written in the CBA that if one side wants to renegotiate the CBA at the earlier date, that then at least the negotiation process should begin, thus allowing until the ultimate date in order to get the CBA done?

Always waiting until the damn thing expires doesn't seem to be working. Incorporating the option of a 'mandatory' negotiation period before the CBA expires could be another alternative to try.
How exactly does a mandatory negotiation work?

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01-08-2013, 01:43 PM
  #409
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How exactly does a mandatory negotiation work?
I guess it would have to have some sort of arbitrator, but not one who tells them that they have to agree on this or that, but that forces them somehow to negotiate in good faith and not to just put on a show until the time is up (the CBA actually expires). Having both sides submit revised proposals (that show at least some response to what the other side last proposed) at least once every month during the length of time between the opening of the negotiation process and the CBA's termination date.

Even if it's a matter of getting only one small issue resolved (or potentially so) with each meeting; they'd have 1 to 2 years (depending on the negotiation opening date) to finally work out a complete package.

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01-08-2013, 01:49 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Not quite. The NHLPA had an explicit unilateral option to extend the CBA for 1 year ('11-'12) which they exercised. Had they not, the NHL would assuredly have filed to have it terminate as scheduled on Sept 15, 2011.
I stand corrected.

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01-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #411
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Sure next time they should negotiate Bettmans way. Take this it's our final offer.
We can get rid of all the southern teams too and just put 3 more in toronto even though all the other teams except for the leafs can't fill their building.

And instead of a mandatory negotiations, you're better off hoping for amiable communication between both parties and effort to not lose games. that or fan pushback from this lockout be severe enough that both parties are scared to lockout again.

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01-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #412
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Have a question or questions guys:

The CBA is for 10 years but with an option to out at 8 years. Could there be a lockout or strike potential at the 8-year mark or thereafter if one side wishes to have the CBA changed at that time but the other would be against the potential changes?
The PA will not strike... simply because the NHL will not give them that option. Should the PA decide to terminate the CBA at the 8 year mark, the NHL will lock the players out if no new CBA is reached before the current one expires. And that's not on the NHL, it's simply them looking to mitigate their risk, and eliminating leverage the players hold.

And honestly I don't see what the PA would be looking to change next time around. Much like this last time, they'll moan and *****, then as revenues rise (and thus the average player salary) they'll realize that it's not quite as bad as they thought, and will almost certainly be content to just extend the CBA as is. It'll be the NHL again looking to close whatever loopholes get exposed and reduce costs - how much so, and how much they feel they 'need' to reduce those costs/loopholes will stipulate how willing they'll be to miss games.

This in my opinion is the only downside to longer CBAs. The longer the deal, the greater the damage is, and the greater the perceived correction needs to be. If they could actually negotiate without labor stoppages I'd be all for them having 3-4 yr deals. However I think the players are too entitled, and the owners are too stubborn to change, and we'll never see anything of the sort. Due to the damage during both lockouts, the NHL needs longer deals for labor peace for the fans, media and sponsors... which in turn only makes each CBA more difficult to negotiate as both sides are looking for greater changes/corrections.

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Last edited by Riptide: 01-08-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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01-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #413
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meh, reading over the details, it seems they did exactly what everyone on the outside knew they had to do. Increase revenue sharing, increase cap range, limit contracts to 7 years (nhl insurance policy cutoff), fix frontloaded deals, lower players share gradually, not immediately (achieved through make-whole).

i still dont understand why it took 4 months to get here.

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01-08-2013, 03:36 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
meh, reading over the details, it seems they did exactly what everyone on the outside knew they had to do. Increase revenue sharing, increase cap range, limit contracts to 7 years (nhl insurance policy cutoff), fix frontloaded deals, lower players share gradually, not immediately (achieved through make-whole).

i still dont understand why it took 4 months to get here.
They had to make time for teeth-gnashing, after all.

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01-08-2013, 04:14 PM
  #415
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<rant>

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed to a frame work and are/have been working on dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

THE LOCKOUT IS STILL IN EFFECT! The Lockout is NOT OVER. Repeat, teams (still) cannot use player's images on the websites without NHL fines.

Until the BOG ratifies the CBA Wednesday (and guessing the NHLPA ratifies the CBA on Thursday and Friday), only then might the lockout be lifted.

So all the headlines saying "the lockout is over" are incorrect.

</rant>

Semantics. Sigh.

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01-08-2013, 04:53 PM
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
<rant>

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed to a frame work and are/have been working on dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

THE LOCKOUT IS STILL IN EFFECT! The Lockout is NOT OVER. Repeat, teams (still) cannot use player's images on the websites without NHL fines.

Until the BOG ratifies the CBA Wednesday (and guessing the NHLPA ratifies the CBA on Thursday and Friday), only then might the lockout be lifted.

So all the headlines saying "the lockout is over" are incorrect.

</rant>

Semantics. Sigh.
There is zero chance that it's not ratified by either side; they'd be vilified, they'd destroy their already withering reputation . So, for the sake of conclusion, "LOCKOUT IS OVER" reads better than "LOCKOUT STILL ON UNTIL BOTH SIDES - AND THEY ASSUREDLY WILL - RATIFY". For all intents and purposes it's over.

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01-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #417
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CapGeek is reporting on twitter that cap-exempt recalls will be replacing ATOs in emergency situations.

https://twitter.com/capgeek/status/288700940628926464 (Part 1)
https://twitter.com/capgeek/status/288701005502246912 (Part 2)

If this is true, can teams still sign a guy to an ATO if a player (especially a goaltender) goes down in morning skate (or, even worse, pre game warm-up skate) and they can't fly in a guy fast enough from an affiliate (especially an issue for far western clubs) or is it fly a guy in from an affiliate (even if it's an ECHL/CHL one) or do without (i.e. play short-handed)?

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01-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
<rant>

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed to a frame work and are/have been working on dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

THE LOCKOUT IS STILL IN EFFECT! The Lockout is NOT OVER. Repeat, teams (still) cannot use player's images on the websites without NHL fines.

Until the BOG ratifies the CBA Wednesday (and guessing the NHLPA ratifies the CBA on Thursday and Friday), only then might the lockout be lifted.

So all the headlines saying "the lockout is over" are incorrect.

</rant>

Semantics. Sigh.
Technically, those aren't real HTML hash tags either.

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01-08-2013, 06:25 PM
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
<rant>

The NHL and NHLPA have agreed to a frame work and are/have been working on dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

THE LOCKOUT IS STILL IN EFFECT! The Lockout is NOT OVER. Repeat, teams (still) cannot use player's images on the websites without NHL fines.

Until the BOG ratifies the CBA Wednesday (and guessing the NHLPA ratifies the CBA on Thursday and Friday), only then might the lockout be lifted.

So all the headlines saying "the lockout is over" are incorrect.

</rant>

Semantics. Sigh.
then why are players featured on NHL.com and henrik lundqvist featured on rangers.com?

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01-09-2013, 12:32 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Technically, those aren't real HTML hash tags either.
Semantically, you mean xHTML.

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01-09-2013, 12:48 AM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
then why are players featured on NHL.com and henrik lundqvist featured on rangers.com?
Saw news that teams using player images on their websites (before ratification) would be subject to fines.




Gotta love Drew's enthusiasm

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01-09-2013, 09:02 AM
  #422
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Any idea when the bog people meet today? Is it a full day thing or will there be word of a vote at some point before evening?

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01-09-2013, 09:11 AM
  #423
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Any idea when the bog people meet today? Is it a full day thing or will there be word of a vote at some point before evening?
Watch live coverage of the Board of Governors news conference today at 4pm et/1pm pt on TSN and TSN.ca or listen live on TSN Radio.

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01-09-2013, 09:30 AM
  #424
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Watch live coverage of the Board of Governors news conference today at 4pm et/1pm pt on TSN and TSN.ca or listen live on TSN Radio.
Great - thanks!

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01-09-2013, 02:25 PM
  #425
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HNIC Radio (SXM NHL Network) will carry presser live too.

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