HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Trading Salary Cap Space

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2013, 07:14 PM
  #1
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Trading Salary Cap Space

I'm sure it's been discussed in a thread here, but I didn't even see it reported until today. Apparently, there's a clause in the new CBA that allows teams to trade salary cap space. Here's the deal:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...re-cba-details

RETAINING SALARY IN TRADES
This was Brian Burke’s baby, an idea he pushed for years at GM meetings. Under the old CBA, teams could not absorb any part of a salary from a player they were trading -- unlike baseball for example.

But in this new agreement, teams will be able to do that.

Here are the main parameters of the rule: A club cannot absorb more than 50 percent of the players’ annual cap hit/salary in any trade. Any NHL club can only have up to three contracts on their payroll in which the contract was traded away under the retaining salary proviso. Also, only up to 15 percent of your upper limit cap amount can be used up by the money you have retained in trades.

For example, let’s say the Maple Leafs want to trade little-used blueliner Mike Komisarek and his $4.5-million cap hit ($3.5 million salary this year) to the New York Islanders (hypothetically). The Leafs could retain half the cap hit -- $2.25 million -- and half the salary -- $1.75 million -- in order to facilitate the deal. The Islanders would pay him the other half. This should facilitate more trades around the league, no question.


Question: How does this clause affect things? I'm guessing that you'd see more trade action, especially as teams now can trade cap dollars to increase the prospective buyers' pools and likely the returns.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:17 PM
  #2
Mike Jones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,379
vCash: 500
Are there any situations in which something like this would be better than a buyout?

Mike Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:17 PM
  #3
irunthepeg
THE ONE WHO KNOCKS
 
irunthepeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Peg, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,541
vCash: 500
I feel like this would eventually get super messy. I'm happy for sites like capgeek so I will never have to think about all this myself.

irunthepeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:36 PM
  #4
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WordUp View Post
I feel like this would eventually get super messy. I'm happy for sites like capgeek so I will never have to think about all this myself.
Let me give you a couple of examples:

1. Who wants J-Bo at 6.6M for this year and next? What would you give? Now, ask yourself this: How much more, in terms of assets, is J-Bo worth to your team if the cap hit were 4M?

2. Ryan Malone has a 4.5M cap hit (I think) and makes 2M salary. What would he be worth in the trade market if the assumed cap hit were 2.6M (where TB ate 1.9M in cap hit and 800K in salary)?

Teams unloading players are going to have to decide how much it's worth to them to eat cap/payroll in exchange for larger returns. If you're a rebuilding team that isn't cash strapped, then it's worth it. And, imagine how much more you could get from a contender if you were willing to do so, because cap space is a most valuable commodity for pretty much every contender.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:40 PM
  #5
Nizdizzle
Salary cap? Huh?
 
Nizdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Let me give you a couple of examples:

1. Who wants J-Bo at 6.6M for this year and next? What would you give? Now, ask yourself this: How much more, in terms of assets, is J-Bo worth to your team if the cap hit were 4M?

2. Ryan Malone has a 4.5M cap hit (I think) and makes 2M salary. What would he be worth in the trade market if the assumed cap hit were 2.6M (where TB ate 1.9M in cap hit and 800K in salary)?

Teams unloading players are going to have to decide how much it's worth to them to eat cap/payroll in exchange for larger returns. If you're a rebuilding team that isn't cash strapped, then it's worth it. And, imagine how much more you could get from a contender if you were willing to do so, because cap space is a most valuable commodity for pretty much every contender.
I think everyone understands the concept, the messy part the poster above you mentioned is in regards to a few years down the road when say the Leafs look at their available cap hits and they have 3 half-contracts they have to pay for and a bunch of players with partial caphits that other teams are paying. Messy indeed.

Nizdizzle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:41 PM
  #6
clarke19
Registered User
 
clarke19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 782
vCash: 500
Can someone clarify what happens to deals that have more than 1 year on them? Can salary be retained through the rest of the contract or only the year of the trade, and can the amount vary season to season if yes?

clarke19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:45 PM
  #7
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarke19 View Post
Can someone clarify what happens to deals that have more than 1 year on them? Can salary be retained through the rest of the contract or only the year of the trade, and can the amount vary season to season if yes?
Komisarek was the example given in the article, and he's got more than a year left in his deal. I would assume that it's the life of the deal, subject to the limit of three contracts total.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:47 PM
  #8
Vankiller Whale
Propaganda Minister
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,234
vCash: 900
Wait, is it either/or salary or cap space, or is it only both together?

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:48 PM
  #9
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
I think everyone understands the concept, the messy part the poster above you mentioned is in regards to a few years down the road when say the Leafs look at their available cap hits and they have 3 half-contracts they have to pay for and a bunch of players with partial caphits that other teams are paying. Messy indeed.
Why is that any messier than having a buyout on your books, like the Leafs do, I believe?

Frankly, I'm not a Leafs fan, but I've got to give Burke props on this one. The great example, IMO, is a guy like J-Bo. At 6.6M this year and next, where next year's cap is going to be, he's not an asset who will draw a lot of suitors. But, if a cash rich team like the Flames that would like a bounty to facilitate a rebuild is able and willing to eat half of that amount, then what is J-Bo at 3.3M for this year and next worth to the team acquiring him? I just see a lot of possibilities here, and I fail to see why it's so messy.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:51 PM
  #10
edruga
 
edruga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,561
vCash: 666
Love it.

edruga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:51 PM
  #11
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Wait, is it either/or salary or cap space, or is it only both together?
Both together. Example: Ryan Malone has three years left on his deal. The cap hit is 4.5M. The salaries are 3M, 2.5M, and 2.5M. Not saying the Bolts would do this, but what if they were willing to eat a third of that. The Bolts would be on the hook for a 1.5M cap hit and salary payments of 1M and then 750K the following two years. So, here's a question for your contenting team: What is Ryan Malone, at a cap hit of 3M to your team, worth?

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:53 PM
  #12
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edruga View Post
Love it.
Honestly, I saw a blurb in USA Today and then found the LeBrun article tonight. It just opens up so many possibilities. Seriously, I'm not high on J-Bo, but he is the perfect example: No contender with cap issues would touch him with a 20 foot pole at 6.6M this year and next. But, Calgary ownership has money, and they're probably going rebuild. If they ate 50% of the cap hit (and salary), J-Bo is as hot a defensive trade commodity as there is, IMO.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 07:58 PM
  #13
edruga
 
edruga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,561
vCash: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Honestly, I saw a blurb in USA Today and then found the LeBrun article tonight. It just opens up so many possibilities. Seriously, I'm not high on J-Bo, but he is the perfect example: No contender with cap issues would touch him with a 20 foot pole at 6.6M this year and next. But, Calgary ownership has money, and they're probably going rebuild. If they ate 50% of the cap hit (and salary), J-Bo is as hot a defensive trade commodity as there is, IMO.
Definitely, you used a great example in J-Bo. This will open up a lot more trade opportunities around the league.

edruga is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:00 PM
  #14
Rorschach
Fearful Symmetry
 
Rorschach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 6,718
vCash: 500
I believe you have a limited number of buyouts but have no limit to the number of partial salary trades you can make.

Rorschach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:04 PM
  #15
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
I believe you have a limited number of buyouts but have no limit to the number of partial salary trades you can make.
Limit is three contracts on your books at any given time.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:07 PM
  #16
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by edruga View Post
Definitely, you used a great example in J-Bo. This will open up a lot more trade opportunities around the league.
Here's another one: If Columbus had been willing to eat a third of Nash's cap hit/salary, then what would the return have been for him last summer.

I don't know how many players truly will be affected by this clause, but think of the 3M veteran defensemen out there who a fan of a contending team might say 'I'd love to have him if his cap hit were 2M'.

IMO, with this AND a late trade deadline this year, it's going to be the most exciting year for trades in a long, long time.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:09 PM
  #17
hfgreg
Obviously...
 
hfgreg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 1,618
vCash: 500
I like it.. This will help the smarter GMs get ahead.

hfgreg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:13 PM
  #18
Hero
The Corporal Returns
 
Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,334
vCash: 500
Will help so much in making trades.

Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:14 PM
  #19
Richie Daggers Crime
Fistie Daggers Crime
 
Richie Daggers Crime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYI fan in Atl
Posts: 9,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Are there any situations in which something like this would be better than a buyout?
Yes, a situation in which you get something in return for the player you want to get rid of.

Richie Daggers Crime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:19 PM
  #20
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,195
vCash: 500
What about sign and trades? There are some crazy possibilities there.

Exit Dose is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:22 PM
  #21
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 8,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Honestly, I saw a blurb in USA Today and then found the LeBrun article tonight. It just opens up so many possibilities. Seriously, I'm not high on J-Bo, but he is the perfect example: No contender with cap issues would touch him with a 20 foot pole at 6.6M this year and next. But, Calgary ownership has money, and they're probably going rebuild. If they ate 50% of the cap hit (and salary), J-Bo is as hot a defensive trade commodity as there is, IMO.
I imagine Phaneuf at 3.25M is pretty attractive as well. Damn, this opens up like a whole new dimension of possibilities haha. Way to go Burke

7even is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:22 PM
  #22
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
Will help so much in making trades.
Imagine a trade thread with the title 'Value of Heatley with Minnesota eating 1/3 of Cap Space'. Imagine the same for LeCavalier. Havlat or Horcoff at half off? Or, Cammalleri at half off?

Not saying every team does this, but say Calgary moves Iggy and goes full rebuild. The owner is a billionaire.

What's J-Bo worth at a 3.3M cap hit for this year and next to your contending team?

What's Cammy worth at a 3M cap hit for this year and next to your rebuilding team?

Think about that. If a team like Calgary, for example, moved Iggy (because he wanted a chance to play for one more cup) and then put J-Bo and Cammy out there at those cap hits, they'd reap an absolute bounty that would accelerate a rebuild far more than would've been the case under the old CBA.

****, Kipper at 2.9M anyone?

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:24 PM
  #23
KIRK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I imagine Phaneuf at 3.25M is pretty attractive as well. Damn, this opens up like a whole new dimension of possibilities haha. Way to go Burke
Absolutely. Teams that decide to move big ticket players (or even the 3M 4/5 defenseman, for example) that have the money to eat the payroll and the patience to deal with dead cap space, will be able to accelerate rebuilds.

Don't see Toronto moving Phaneuf, mind you. But, what if they struck out on everyone this summer. Imagine 3.25M for him for a year where you try to acquire him this summer for the 64.3M cap year. Yeah, Burkie could get quite a bit.

KIRK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 08:29 PM
  #24
rockinghockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,606
vCash: 500
I wouldn't mind seeing JBo in EDM for the next bit, if CAL is in the sell mode and EDM is in the buy mode I would go after JBo for a season and a half.

rockinghockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-08-2013, 09:07 PM
  #25
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 32,566
vCash: 500
I actually suggested this on here in 2005, but people thought it wasn't fair to small market clubs...

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:57 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.