HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lockout Thread 2: Deal reached in early morning hours

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-07-2013, 04:55 AM
  #776
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Yes, but fixing didn't need to require months of acting like kids and treating their fans and other people they rely on everyday like garbage.
Of course it doesn't. Obviously a lockout is necessary to get what the league wanted. It's used as leverage. We saw it in the NBA and NFL as well last year. I missed a half season of hockey and who really gives a rats ass. Most people are going to watch or do whatever entertains them. The only people that should really be put off are individuals in the business that lost wages due to the lockout. You know what, companies treat employees like **** all the time. You going to boycott them all. No, you don't have time for that.

Otherwise, continue to be a fan or don't. Hold a grudge, who cares. There are plenty of avenues of entertainment out there. There are also other hockey leagues.

You are pretty cynical about the Hawks and hockey in general so maybe you have your answer.

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 05:18 AM
  #777
Belenos
Registered User
 
Belenos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Biel, Switzerland
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 594
vCash: 500
Biel's Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin were voted best NHL-imports in Switzerland by Swiss newspaper readers of "20 Minuten". http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/...Joker-28722254

I will follow his career in the NHL (as i did before, but with more attention now ) absolutely loved seeing him play for my hometown team.

Belenos is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 05:21 AM
  #778
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
Of course it doesn't. Obviously a lockout is necessary to get what the league wanted. It's used as leverage. We saw it in the NBA and NFL as well last year. I missed a half season of hockey and who really gives a rats ass. Most people are going to watch or do whatever entertains them. The only people that should really be put off are individuals in the business that lost wages due to the lockout. You know what, companies treat employees like **** all the time. You going to boycott them all. No, you don't have time for that.

Otherwise, continue to be a fan or don't. Hold a grudge, who cares. There are plenty of avenues of entertainment out there. There are also other hockey leagues.

You are pretty cynical about the Hawks and hockey in general so maybe you have your answer.
Sadly this is the result of most of the people in regards to the NHL and the end of the lockout.



I love how I am trying to hold the league accountable for screwing over not only it's own employees but it's paying customers and your defending it and coming after me for it. It's amazing!

I love the "other people do it so it's ok" defense. Such a great argument and one that will always solve problems and fix issues.

Sir Psycho T is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 05:37 AM
  #779
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
Sadly this is the result of most of the people in regards to the NHL and the end of the lockout.



I love how I am trying to hold the league accountable for screwing over not only it's own employees but it's paying customers and your defending it and coming after me for it. It's amazing!

I love the "other people do it so it's ok" defense. Such a great argument and one that will always solve problems and fix issues.
It's not that other people do it, it's the nature of the business. The U.C. will be sold out every game. People have short memories. I'm not defending it. This convo started with how MLB is so high and mighty now. It's not but hasn't had any issues since Fehr and co lost a season.

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 05:45 AM
  #780
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
It's not that other people do it, it's the nature of the business. The U.C. will be sold out every game. People have short memories. I'm not defending it. This convo started with how MLB is so high and mighty now. It's not but hasn't had any issues since Fehr and co lost a season.
It's the nature of the business as long as fans let it be. If fans this time stood up and make a sign of we're not taking this anymore, by not giving the NHL their money, at least for a time, not saying ever again, but so that the NHL really feels it, it will come into their mind next time a CBA has to be agreed upon.

Sir Psycho T is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 05:53 AM
  #781
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
It's the nature of the business as long as fans let it be. If fans this time stood up and make a sign of we're not taking this anymore, by not giving the NHL their money, at least for a time, not saying ever again, but so that the NHL really feels it, it will come into their mind next time a CBA has to be agreed upon.
Good luck with that. Boycott them. That is your right and I don't blame you one bit

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 06:15 AM
  #782
Chelios
Registered User
 
Chelios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
I thought you would say that. So we are clear, there is no benefit from extra terms in contracts, buy outs and pension for the players. It was a waste of time after 50/50. That is your stance.
You can only bang your head against a wall so many times before you realize you aren't breaking through the wall.

And don't put words in my mouth. I never said there was no "benefit" to the contracting rights the PA held out for, I said it doesn't give them any more money, which it absolutely does not. There are benefits (longer contracts give more security, buyouts allow teams to get under the cap without hurting future UFA/RFA's market value, variance allows players to get more money up front at the expense of later years), but those benefits are not worth throwing away the amount of money they have and damaging the game the way they have. I also maintain that many of these "wins" for the players could have been "won" in October had they just negotiated off the NHL's offer.

Chelios is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 06:26 AM
  #783
Chelios
Registered User
 
Chelios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,564
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeticDonut View Post
I don't understand the way they handled the negotiations, weeks where nothing was done or not starting negotiations well ahead of the September deadline. Instead of storming out after 15 minutes after getting a counter-offer, why not sit down and discuss what they like and don't like and go from there. Both parties acted like children (the NHL was the worst).
Its pretty easy to walk out after 15 minutes when the PA puts 3 offers on the table, 2 of which were the same de-linked proposal they had made before just with slightly altered numbers, and 1 that was written on the back of a napkin that the PA had "not run the numbers on". It was painfully obvious that the PA were doing nothing but stalling to see how far the owners would bend. Unfortunately for them, and for us as fans, in the end the NHL didn't bend nearly far enough to justify the money lost.

Chelios is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:42 AM
  #784
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 106,821
vCash: 500
During this lockout I was 100% sure we would lose the season (2 seasons actually)

I said I would sport a Stalberg Avy if we had a season when debating with a certain poster

Well I am a man of my word

<<<<<<

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:44 AM
  #785
Chris Hansen
VERSTEEG REDEMPTION
 
Chris Hansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
It was not "Flourishing". By what standard? How many teams are losing money? It definitely needed some fixing.
In terms of popularity and overall revenue, it had never been healthier.

You cannot seriously be trying to give the league a pass here... can you?

Chris Hansen is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:48 AM
  #786
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
During this lockout I was 100% sure we would lose the season (2 seasons actually)

I said I would sport a Stalberg Avy if we had a season when debating with a certain poster

Well I am a man of my word

<<<<<<
Huzzah. Great avatar.

ChiGuySez is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:49 AM
  #787
IU Hawks fan
They call me 'IU'
 
IU Hawks fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: No longer IU
Country: United States
Posts: 19,099
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
During this lockout I was 100% sure we would lose the season (2 seasons actually)

I said I would sport a Stalberg Avy if we had a season when debating with a certain poster

Well I am a man of my word

<<<<<<

IU Hawks fan is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:53 AM
  #788
ChiGuySez
Showtime
 
ChiGuySez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belenos View Post
Biel's Patrick Kane and Tyler Seguin were voted best NHL-imports in Switzerland by Swiss newspaper readers of "20 Minuten". http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/...Joker-28722254

I will follow his career in the NHL (as i did before, but with more attention now ) absolutely loved seeing him play for my hometown team.
Biel. Is that where Kane played? JK and welcome aboard. Reminds me of a former Hawks draft pick, Reto van Arx.... and congrats by the SUI on a decent showing at the WJC.

ChiGuySez is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 11:55 AM
  #789
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Blue Jays!
 
UsernameWasTaken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,080
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
It's not that other people do it, it's the nature of the business. The U.C. will be sold out every game. People have short memories. I'm not defending it. This convo started with how MLB is so high and mighty now. It's not but hasn't had any issues since Fehr and co lost a season.
it's the same with the canadian teams - nothing will change...the fans will come back immediately (especially in toronto) - no matter what some local journalists claim.

i'd think it's the teams that were weak to begin with and have struggled to build a fan base that will have the most problems.

any word on when the schedule might be released?

UsernameWasTaken is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 12:13 PM
  #790
Belenos
Registered User
 
Belenos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Biel, Switzerland
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 594
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGuySez View Post
Biel. Is that where Kane played? JK and welcome aboard. Reminds me of a former Hawks draft pick, Reto van Arx.... and congrats by the SUI on a decent showing at the WJC.
Yes.
And Reto von Arx was born in Biel. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=10822

Belenos is offline  
Old
01-07-2013, 01:21 PM
  #791
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
During this lockout I was 100% sure we would lose the season (2 seasons actually)

I said I would sport a Stalberg Avy if we had a season when debating with a certain poster

Well I am a man of my word

<<<<<<
LOL, I remember that. Kudos to you for owning up and sporting the AVY. I love it!

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 01:25 PM
  #792
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
In terms of popularity and overall revenue, it had never been healthier.

You cannot seriously be trying to give the league a pass here... can you?
I am not trying to give anyone a pass here but I really don't care that it took them half a season to fix it either. The problem with you and anyone on this board is you knew too much. You read every update and change in the lockout daily. The average fan did not.

I think the manner in which the lockout was handled was dumb. The PA refusing to negotiate until right before the season. The ridiculous initial offer by the owners. All the nonsense until they finally got a deal done.

And overall revenue means squat. They will probably have record revenue every season just do to inflation. Profitability is the main problem.

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-07-2013, 06:12 PM
  #793
Sir Psycho T
More Cowbell!
 
Sir Psycho T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 3,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawksFan74 View Post
I am not trying to give anyone a pass here but I really don't care that it took them half a season to fix it either. The problem with you and anyone on this board is you knew too much. You read every update and change in the lockout daily. The average fan did not.

I think the manner in which the lockout was handled was dumb. The PA refusing to negotiate until right before the season. The ridiculous initial offer by the owners. All the nonsense until they finally got a deal done.

And overall revenue means squat. They will probably have record revenue every season just do to inflation. Profitability is the main problem.
This is the one thing I disagree with you on. Anyone who didn't know the first offer by the owners was going to be a lowball joke doesn't know negotiations. Of course the owners threw out a ridiculous offer, its so when they offer what is actually fair they can go "see how much we have changed" The players did the same thing.

After that is what was the disgrace, the players took the offer as some personal afront and responded with insults and a lack of negotiating. So the owners instead of ignoring it and taking the high road responded in kind and BOOM! in went on and on.

Suddenly instead of two sides working together to get a deal done it became two sides working against each other trying to hurt the other one and eventually became a stupid off, with one doing something stupid and the other trying to out do the first gesture.

Sir Psycho T is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 09:23 AM
  #794
bct27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 14
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
After that is what was the disgrace, the players took the offer as some personal afront and responded with insults and a lack of negotiating.
The offers the players were making were serious negotiating; they took the issues the owners raised, and made offers in an attempt to tackle those issues. The fact that their offers were asking for concessions from owners rather than offering concessions from players (as the owners original offer asked for) doesn't mean the players offers were in bad faith (what is implied by accusing them of a lack of negotiating).

The reason the players took this approach to negotiating is because they estimated what the NHL's deadline was for making a deal, and didn't want to start making concessions too early in the process. If the players start negotiating off the of the owners proposals too early, that just puts the players initial offers much closer to the owners, meaning the compromise months later would have ended up much closer to the owner's original positions than to the previous CBA. By asking for owner concessions off the bat, the players moved toward the owners by dropping those asks. It's negotiating. Fehr knows what he's doing. He's not perfect, but the guy is a top line negotiator who the players were smart to line up against Bettman.

I hear a lot about the players waiting so long to start negotiating. Again, starting too early just means more time for owners to put pressure on them to keep moving closer and closer to the owners initial offer. E.g., if they start years ago, maybe they negotiate to the current offer over the summer; owners still would have locked the players out and then gotten 5 year contracts, a $60m cap in year two or lower, and on and on. There was NO advantage for the players to start negotiations earlier. Just as there was NO advantage for ownership to continue playing under the current CBA while negotiating a new one.

bct27 is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 11:02 AM
  #795
BobbyJet
Registered User
 
BobbyJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dundas, Ontario. Can
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,407
vCash: 500
/\ So, by your account we will have a work stoppage each and every time a new CBA comes up for renewal. That’s BS. The truth is the NHLPA needs to get their **** together, do their homework well in advance and start serious talks at least a year in advance. I laugh at those that blame the owners, when they were literally forced to lockout the players before they could even begin serious talks. I think it is quite obvious that it was Fehr’s plan all along to wait for the “drop dead” date no matter what was offered from the owners.

And sorry to say haters, but if it weren’t for Bettman and the owners and their genuine concern for the game, this season was lost. Now the player agents will sift through all the paperwork in search of loopholes to feed the greed. Personally, I hope the owners collude and stop this spiralling trend of greed. The fan is already paying outrageous prices to see this great game and most cannot afford to take their kids to see a single game a season and that's tragic.

BobbyJet is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 11:56 AM
  #796
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Psycho T View Post
This is the one thing I disagree with you on. Anyone who didn't know the first offer by the owners was going to be a lowball joke doesn't know negotiations. Of course the owners threw out a ridiculous offer, its so when they offer what is actually fair they can go "see how much we have changed" The players did the same thing.

After that is what was the disgrace, the players took the offer as some personal afront and responded with insults and a lack of negotiating. So the owners instead of ignoring it and taking the high road responded in kind and BOOM! in went on and on.

Suddenly instead of two sides working together to get a deal done it became two sides working against each other trying to hurt the other one and eventually became a stupid off, with one doing something stupid and the other trying to out do the first gesture.
Both sides are to blame and I'm not debating it anymore. Who cares. It's solved for a good amount of time and hockey is back.

HawksFan74 is online now  
Old
01-08-2013, 12:01 PM
  #797
Hawkaholic
Registered User
 
Hawkaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,977
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyJet View Post
/\ So, by your account we will have a work stoppage each and every time a new CBA comes up for renewal. That’s BS. The truth is the NHLPA needs to get their **** together, do their homework well in advance and start serious talks at least a year in advance. I laugh at those that blame the owners, when they were literally forced to lockout the players before they could even begin serious talks. I think it is quite obvious that it was Fehr’s plan all along to wait for the “drop dead” date no matter what was offered from the owners.

And sorry to say haters, but if it weren’t for Bettman and the owners and their genuine concern for the game, this season was lost. Now the player agents will sift through all the paperwork in search of loopholes to feed the greed. Personally, I hope the owners collude and stop this spiralling trend of greed. The fan is already paying outrageous prices to see this great game and most cannot afford to take their kids to see a single game a season and that's tragic.
With Bettman in charge, ya there probably is a work stoppage again in 2019.
He's 3/3, why not make it 4/4?

If it weren't for Bettman and the owners not negotiating past Oct 17, the season could have been saved a lot sooner. It wasn't until they were pressured from their TV contractors that they finally realized what they were fighting for wasn't worth it.

Hawkaholic is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 05:12 PM
  #798
Belenos
Registered User
 
Belenos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Biel, Switzerland
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 594
vCash: 500
I find it quite interesting how Swiss media report about Seguin and Kane after they came to Switzerland.
Seguin is described as the most spectacular, the most charismatic, but also the most unpredictable, capricious, headstrong and selfish of NHL guest workers. There are quite many story about his partylife and his not always professional behaviour off the ice. He was still loved by the fans in Biel. His coach in Biel said that he was way more difficult to coach than Patrick Kane. Kane was apparently very calm, didn't party alot. "The smart, modest and polite model boy was sort of the opposite of the Rock Roller Tyler Seguin." said a Swiss newspaper.

And the Bruins fans feared that Kane would have a bad influence on Seguin. :-D

Belenos is offline  
Old
01-08-2013, 06:46 PM
  #799
Chris Hansen
VERSTEEG REDEMPTION
 
Chris Hansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belenos View Post
I find it quite interesting how Swiss media report about Seguin and Kane after they came to Switzerland.
Seguin is described as the most spectacular, the most charismatic, but also the most unpredictable, capricious, headstrong and selfish of NHL guest workers. There are quite many story about his partylife and his not always professional behaviour off the ice. He was still loved by the fans in Biel. His coach in Biel said that he was way more difficult to coach than Patrick Kane. Kane was apparently very calm, didn't party alot. "The smart, modest and polite model boy was sort of the opposite of the Rock Roller Tyler Seguin." said a Swiss newspaper.

And the Bruins fans feared that Kane would have a bad influence on Seguin. :-D
Shhh, don't share this on the main boards. Over there, Kane is still a 15 year old kid who would be lucky to fetch a seventh rounder in a trade.

But really, thanks for sharing. Interesting stuff re Seguin. He's had that reputation for a while now.

Chris Hansen is online now  
Old
01-08-2013, 07:09 PM
  #800
ndgt10
Registered User
 
ndgt10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Poland
Country: United States
Posts: 4,105
vCash: 500
When the eff is the schedule going to be announced? And when do I get my money back from the games missed on my ticket plan?

ndgt10 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.