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01-08-2013, 07:01 PM
  #1
KIRK
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Trading Salary Cap Space

Hey, I posted this in the CBA thread, but I think this is just such an interesting clause in the new CBA that opens up all kinds of prospective trade deals for the Pens:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...re-cba-details

RETAINING SALARY IN TRADES
This was Brian Burke’s baby, an idea he pushed for years at GM meetings. Under the old CBA, teams could not absorb any part of a salary from a player they were trading -- unlike baseball for example.

But in this new agreement, teams will be able to do that.

Here are the main parameters of the rule: A club cannot absorb more than 50 percent of the players’ annual cap hit/salary in any trade. Any NHL club can only have up to three contracts on their payroll in which the contract was traded away under the retaining salary proviso. Also, only up to 15 percent of your upper limit cap amount can be used up by the money you have retained in trades.

For example, let’s say the Maple Leafs want to trade little-used blueliner Mike Komisarek and his $4.5-million cap hit ($3.5 million salary this year) to the New York Islanders (hypothetically). The Leafs could retain half the cap hit -- $2.25 million -- and half the salary -- $1.75 million -- in order to facilitate the deal. The Islanders would pay him the other half. This should facilitate more trades around the league, no question.


I wouldn't want to touch J-Bo and his 6.6M cap hit this year and next with a 20 foot pole. But, Calgary has an owner with deep pockets, and that team will be rebuilding at some point soon. So, here's the question: What is J-Bo worth to the Pens for this year and next IF Calgary ate half the cap (and payroll) hit?

Similar question for Malone: He's got a 4.5M hit for the next three years. Definitely not worth it. But, what's he worth if TB ate a third of the cap and payroll hit (less likely that they do, even though the payroll hit won't be too bad)?

Imagine the market Columbus could've ginned up for Nash if they'd have been willing to eat some cap/payroll.

Look at it the other way. Pens decide to move Martin after this year. Yeah, they can get something, even at his 5M hit. But, what's the market for Martin like at a 3.75M hit. Is the extra return worth eating 1.25M of the cap hit?

You add this factor to the likely later deadline, and IMO this will be the most exciting trade market to follow in years.

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01-08-2013, 07:07 PM
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Interesting little wrinkle.

Yes on Malone. No on Jay "The Biggest Loser" Bouwmeester.

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01-08-2013, 07:08 PM
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KIRK
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Interesting little wrinkle.

Yes on Malone. No on Jay "The Biggest Loser" Bouwmeester.
Fair enough. Thing is, cost of Malone at 3M is going to be a heck of a lot higher than the cost of Malone at 4.5M.

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01-08-2013, 07:11 PM
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Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Fair enough. Thing is, cost of Malone at 3M is going to be a heck of a lot higher than the cost of Malone at 4.5M.
Yeah, that complicates things. I like it in principle, anyway.

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01-08-2013, 07:17 PM
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KIRK
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Interesting little wrinkle.

Yes on Malone. No on Jay "The Biggest Loser" Bouwmeester.
BTW, here are some other names:

Wideman (zero interest at 5.25M, but he'd solve the 'who plays point' problem at half that and be worth quite a bit).

Cammallerri at 3M anyone?

Marty St Louis at 4M has a nice ring, no?

Not for us, but imagine Prince Vinny if TB at a third of that salary.

I might take a flier on Havlat at 3M. Someone will. Same with Gionta. And, by flier, I mean you'll have multiple suitors offering returns reflective of the revised cap hit.

What's Minny's market for Heatley like if they ate 1/3 of the cap hit?

I'm no Horcoff fan at 5.5M, but I would be at half that amount.

I don't know that there are a ton of guys who fit this bill (or fit it right now), but there definitely could be some more targets and options for Shero.

And, as I said, I don't doubt that he'll consider a similar quandry with Martin after this year.

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01-08-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
BTW, here are some other names:

Wideman (zero interest at 5.25M, but he'd solve the 'who plays point' problem at half that and be worth quite a bit).

Cammallerri at 3M anyone?

Marty St Louis at 4M has a nice ring, no?

Not for us, but imagine Prince Vinny if TB at a third of that salary.

I might take a flier on Havlat at 3M. Someone will. Same with Gionta. And, by flier, I mean you'll have multiple suitors offering returns reflective of the revised cap hit.

What's Minny's market for Heatley like if they ate 1/3 of the cap hit?

I'm no Horcoff fan at 5.5M, but I would be at half that amount.

I don't know that there are a ton of guys who fit this bill (or fit it right now), but there definitely could be some more targets and options for Shero.

And, as I said, I don't doubt that he'll consider a similar quandry with Martin after this year.
Some attractive pieces there, but I don't think most of them would be available. The only one of those where I think there could be mutual interest in a deal would be Gionta - and even that's a shaky proposition considering he's the Habs captain. But I'd be interested.

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01-08-2013, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Some attractive pieces there, but I don't think most of them would be available. The only one of those where I think there could be mutual interest in a deal would be Gionta - and even that's a shaky proposition considering he's the Habs captain. But I'd be interested.
IF Iggy decided it was time and Calgary, with a billionaire for an owner, went rebuild, imagine them putting Cammy at 3M, J-Bo at 3.3M, and Kipper at 2.9M for this year and next on the market. They could rebuild very, very quickly from moving those four players.

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01-08-2013, 07:34 PM
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IF Iggy decided it was time and Calgary, with a billionaire for an owner, went rebuild, imagine them putting Cammy at 3M, J-Bo at 3.3M, and Kipper at 2.9M for this year and next on the market. They could rebuild very, very quickly from moving those four players.
That would be the smart thing to do, but Feaster's comments always suggest that sort of thing wouldn't happen. He seems pretty delusional about their situation.

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01-08-2013, 07:50 PM
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I'd absolutely take Cammallerri at 3M.

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01-08-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
That would be the smart thing to do, but Feaster's comments always suggest that sort of thing wouldn't happen. He seems pretty delusional about their situation.
Well, he may, and I don't know that Ray Shero ever would be buyer or seller in that scenario.

But, if Feaster wakes up, I can't wait to see the ******* and moaning here when the deadline comes, Paul Holmgren offers Schenn, a top defensive prospect, a young goalie, and who knows what else emptying his cupboard in exchange for Cammy, J-Bo, and Kipper at 50% off (that's 9.2M a year, and a manageable cap hit for them at the deadline). Then, as we all laugh about how ****** he is, he goes into the summer and uses his compliance buyouts on the head case in goal and Briere, thus arming himself with more than enough cap space to be a buyer all year and especially at the next deadline.

I swear, I see this **** happening. If he doesn't do it, then a guy like Sather will. With all of his prospects . . .

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01-08-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kunitz View Post
I'd absolutely take Cammallerri at 3M.
What's he worth at THAT hit for this year and next?

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01-08-2013, 07:55 PM
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What's he worth at THAT hit for this year and next?
Depends what they want. I'm guessing prospects.

Hockey's Future's page for them says their weaknesses are "Offensive Defenseman" and "First line forward talent". Guess what we have an abundance of.

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01-08-2013, 08:04 PM
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Oh wow, I hadn't heard about this at all! This opens so many new possibilities for trades. I can't imagine how much more whacked out the offers on the Trade Forum page will be now

But on the negative side it also gives an advantage to big market teams correct the mistakes they make in Free Agency. Teams like the Rangers or Toronto would be much more likely to pay part of a players salary to improve their return or to simply get rid of them than Nashville or Columbus or even us.

It will be very interesting to see how this ends up playing out!

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01-08-2013, 09:17 PM
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Oh wow, I hadn't heard about this at all! This opens so many new possibilities for trades. I can't imagine how much more whacked out the offers on the Trade Forum page will be now
Yeah, that's going to be insane .

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But on the negative side it also gives an advantage to big market teams correct the mistakes they make in Free Agency. Teams like the Rangers or Toronto would be much more likely to pay part of a players salary to improve their return or to simply get rid of them than Nashville or Columbus or even us.
One little wrinkle here, but as I read the rules, it could also some times play in the opposite direction.
Take Redden as an example. Rangers just sent him down and kept that mistake off the NHL roster, thus suffering no cap consequences.
With this rule, say they had found someone to take him while paying some of the salary. That cap-hit they would have to take and the impact would be like buying him out, just cheaper. As the economic benefit of trading the player is so significant compared to retaining all the costs, even the most deep pocketed teams will likely do this.

Also, if Vancouver wants to get out from under Luongo for instance, and take on some salary/caphit, that will improve the return they get on Luongo, but it also takes away some of their cap-room.
In KIRK's Calgary example, that's not an issue for Calgary as they would be going nowhere in the short term anyway, but for Vancouver having (say) two million less in cap-space next season (and a long time into the future), that would be an issue for a contender.

But it surely will open some very interesting scenarios.

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01-08-2013, 09:27 PM
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Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, he may, and I don't know that Ray Shero ever would be buyer or seller in that scenario.

But, if Feaster wakes up, I can't wait to see the ******* and moaning here when the deadline comes, Paul Holmgren offers Schenn, a top defensive prospect, a young goalie, and who knows what else emptying his cupboard in exchange for Cammy, J-Bo, and Kipper at 50% off (that's 9.2M a year, and a manageable cap hit for them at the deadline). Then, as we all laugh about how ****** he is, he goes into the summer and uses his compliance buyouts on the head case in goal and Briere, thus arming himself with more than enough cap space to be a buyer all year and especially at the next deadline.

I swear, I see this **** happening. If he doesn't do it, then a guy like Sather will. With all of his prospects . . .
If that deal went through we'd be fine because the Flyers would be a mortal lock to miss the playoffs until at least '14-'15.

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01-08-2013, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Interesting little wrinkle.

Yes on Malone. No on Jay "The Biggest Loser" Bouwmeester.
Well, I would take Jay Bouwmeester at half his cap hit. Especially considering that we don't need him to be our number 1 d-man, we have Letang. Bouwmeester is solid defensively and he is a good skater. I would love to see him paired with Niskanen on the second pairing.

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01-08-2013, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Yeah, that's going to be insane .
But no more Jordan Staal trades, that takes away 40% of the material on there!

Quote:
One little wrinkle here, but as I read the rules, it could also some times play in the opposite direction.
Take Redden as an example. Rangers just sent him down and kept that mistake off the NHL roster, thus suffering no cap consequences.
With this rule, say they had found someone to take him while paying some of the salary. That cap-hit they would have to take and the impact would be like buying him out, just cheaper. As the economic benefit of trading the player is so significant compared to retaining all the costs, even the most deep pocketed teams will likely do this.

Also, if Vancouver wants to get out from under Luongo for instance, and take on some salary/caphit, that will improve the return they get on Luongo, but it also takes away some of their cap-room.
In KIRK's Calgary example, that's not an issue for Calgary as they would be going nowhere in the short term anyway, but for Vancouver having (say) two million less in cap-space next season (and a long time into the future), that would be an issue for a contender.

But it surely will open some very interesting scenarios.
Good points. And I'm sure GM's have already thought of other loopholes and ways to abuse this that we haven't!

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01-08-2013, 09:39 PM
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That is interesting. Thanks for posting that KIRK. Definitely will add some flexibility for GM's shopping players.

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01-09-2013, 07:52 AM
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KIRK
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Yeah, that's going to be insane .



One little wrinkle here, but as I read the rules, it could also some times play in the opposite direction.
Take Redden as an example. Rangers just sent him down and kept that mistake off the NHL roster, thus suffering no cap consequences.
With this rule, say they had found someone to take him while paying some of the salary. That cap-hit they would have to take and the impact would be like buying him out, just cheaper. As the economic benefit of trading the player is so significant compared to retaining all the costs, even the most deep pocketed teams will likely do this.

Also, if Vancouver wants to get out from under Luongo for instance, and take on some salary/caphit, that will improve the return they get on Luongo, but it also takes away some of their cap-room.
In KIRK's Calgary example, that's not an issue for Calgary as they would be going nowhere in the short term anyway, but for Vancouver having (say) two million less in cap-space next season (and a long time into the future), that would be an issue for a contender.

But it surely will open some very interesting scenarios.
I really do see Calgary as the fascinating example. Say they're completely out. Iginla says o'k to a trade. Clearly, it's rebuild time, and they'll get a nice package for Iggy.

Now, they're going to be out of it for a couple of year. Why not get something for guys who will be UFA's after the 2013-2014 season?

Cammallerri . . . not much trade value at 6M per, but at 3M, he's worth a lot.

J-Bo . . . 6.6M, no thanks; 3.3M, you get a top defensive prospect from someone.

Kiprusoff . . . 5.8M, can't afford the hit; 2.9M, if I've got questions in goal and I'm a contender . . .

Add up the return from Iggy and the returns from Cammy, J-Bo, and Kipper at half cap hits, and IMO Calgary would be stocked.

There are other examples. Not a lot, but others.

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01-09-2013, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
Well, I would take Jay Bouwmeester at half his cap hit. Especially considering that we don't need him to be our number 1 d-man, we have Letang. Bouwmeester is solid defensively and he is a good skater. I would love to see him paired with Niskanen on the second pairing.
I'd take Cammallerri at 3M for next year, J-Bo at 3.3M for next year, and even Sarich for 1M for next year.

Thing is, all three guys are UFA's after the 2013-2014 season, but adding them at those numbers really would position the Pens.

Thing is, if you're Feaster, what do you charge the Pens for that privilege of having those three at half cap hits. IMO, you're talking one of the blue chip defensive prospects as a centerpiece.

Then again, who's to say that Shero doesn't consider doing the same thing with Paul Martin after this season. Martin at 5M isn't really appetizing. Martin at 3.5M has more significant value.

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01-09-2013, 08:07 AM
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Le Magnifique 66
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Brian Burke got what he wanted. Basically just acquire a bad player or two along with prospects and picks to just have them on your team for a year or 2 while you're rebuilding your team. Going to be fun and GM's will have to be creative but lot's of flexibility for them

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01-09-2013, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
RETAINING SALARY IN TRADES

Here are the main parameters of the rule: A club cannot absorb more than 50 percent of the players’ annual cap hit/salary in any trade. Any NHL club can only have up to three contracts on their payroll in which the contract was traded away under the retaining salary proviso. Also, only up to 15 percent of your upper limit cap amount can be used up by the money you have retained in trades.

I don't get this part ... Anybody could explain it for me, with some example, please?

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01-09-2013, 07:34 PM
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I don't get this part ... Anybody could explain it for me, with some example, please?
if the cap was 100M, you could be paying 15M in cap space for players that you traded to other teams. With a cap at 60M, that number is 9M.

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