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Siegel: Leafs stand to benefit from new CBA

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01-08-2013, 02:30 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Franson was 7th defensman spare part on a 25th overall placed team and a healthy scratch for 1/2 of last season.

How much value that holds is in the eye of the beholder.. James Reimer, Matt Frattin or Korbian Holzer are examples of former Leaf 4th round picks, does Franson have more value to the team then any similar 4th round picks?

While money is money, not only did Lombardi cost the Leafs $7 mil contract they bought, but he lead the Leafs in the worst +/- at -19 last year and perhaps you care because that is one of the reason Leafs finished 5th last overall in the standings, by what effect he had negatively on the team by playing.

His addition also cost players like Kadri demotions to the AHL, because he occupied their roster spot instead, as a trickle down effect. Perhaps you care about that ?

So taking on bad contract(s) is not always a good idea nor is it advantages to your team as this deal has proven for the Leafs.
At the time of the trade, Franson was a highly rated defensive prospect and there was some serious doubt as to whether Lambo would ever play again.

Both are much more valuable than Lebda any day of the week. It's a trade you make if you can every day of the week.

It is also a perfect example of Burke using our financial clout to our advantage which was the point being made.

If you wanna start a thread regarding Franson's current value, I will be glad to join you there and argue it until I turn blue in the face.

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01-08-2013, 02:33 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
I've never understood this logic. It's as simplistic as saying that there are 210 defensemen in the NHL (7x30) and since the Leafs finished 25th in the League Franson is the 175th best D man in the NHL (7x25).

The truth is Franson is an average D man who did not fit on the team very well last year, but could be effective on other teams (as he was in Nashville) in the right situation.
It' was also totally irrelevant to the point being made, which is that Burke could very well use our financial clout to our advantage with tho buyout clause.

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01-08-2013, 02:34 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Franson was 7th defensman spare part on a 25th overall placed team and a healthy scratch for 1/2 of last season.

How much value that holds is in the eye of the beholder.. James Reimer, Matt Frattin or Korbian Holzer are examples of former Leaf 4th round picks, does Franson have more value to the team then any similar 4th round picks?

While money is money, not only did Lombardi cost the Leafs $7 mil contract they bought, but he lead the Leafs in the worst +/- at -19 last year and perhaps you care because that is one of the reason Leafs finished 5th last overall in the standings, by what effect he had negatively on the team by playing.

His addition also cost players like Kadri demotions to the AHL, because he occupied their roster spot instead, as a trickle down effect. Perhaps you care about that ?

So taking on bad contract(s) is not always a good idea nor is it advantages to your team as this deal has proven for the Leafs.
Franson has more value than Frattin and Holzer, yeah. He was the 7th man because he was brought in to play the left side (instead of his usual right side) and a kid called Jake Gardiner stepped in and took his roster spot. Perhaps you've heard of him?

& when Franson was playing regular minutes he had a decent enough stretch where he played exceptional hockey. The fact of the matter is that Komisarek is the one legitimately blocking Franson from being used effectively. That's the real issue here.

We could trade Franson right now and he'd bring back more than a fourth round pick.

Kadri wasn't being held back from the NHL by Franson. He was being held back by getting injured after having a great training camp and having his roster spot unjustly stolen and held by an average at best prospect in Frattin that did little to earn or impress in his overly lengthy time on the Leafs. That was pure incompetence on the hands of a now fired coach (praise the lord).

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01-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
A cap space deal. Not trading straight up for cash!
The Lombardi deal had nothing to do with the cap.

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01-08-2013, 02:38 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
I've never understood this logic. It's as simplistic as saying that there are 210 defensemen in the NHL (7x30) and since the Leafs finished 25th in the League Franson is the 175th best D man in the NHL (7x25).

The truth is Franson is an average D man who did not fit on the team very well last year, but could be effective on other teams (as he was in Nashville) in the right situation.
Spare part on a bad team and not used speaks for itself as to the value he has to the team was my point..

This wasn't a case of Franson being a victim of a strong team depth chart preventing him from playing but rather coach(s) X2 choice in Toronto that made him sit out 1/2 the season on a team with the 29th worst goals against that didn't think he could help them. Now he is unsigned and future uncertain.

If this is the reason really behind eating Lombardi's contract and giving up a 4th round pick in the process then the Leafs didn't get very much value in exchange for the so called doing the Preds a favour and taking advantage of MLSE money at its disposal in an attempt to improve the team itself. .

Personally myself I'd actually like my GM to make moves that improve the team,rather than more Lombardi type deals willing to take on other teams expendables/unwantables simply because MLSE has the financial wherewithal to do so.

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01-08-2013, 02:45 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Spare part on a bad team and not used speaks for itself as to the value he has to the team was my point..

This wasn't a case of Franson being a victim of a strong team depth chart preventing him from playing but rather coach(s) X2 choice in Toronto that made him sit out 1/2 the season on a team with the 29th worst goals against that didn't think he could help them. Now he is unsigned and future uncertain.

If this is the reason really behind eating Lombardi's contract and giving up a 4th round pick in the process then the Leafs didn't get very much value in exchange for the so called doing the Preds a favour and taking advantage of MLSE money at its disposal in an attempt to improve the team itself. .

Personally myself I'd actually like my GM to make moves that improve the team,rather than more Lombardi type deals willing to take on other teams expendables/unwantables simply because MLSE has the financial wherewithal to do so.
So who is the real Franson then? The guy that played in Toronto or the guy that played in Nashville? Hmmmm.

And you're right, a deal such as suggested could never improve our team.

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01-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
The Lombardi deal had nothing to do with the cap.
That depends on if Burke expected him to return to the lineup.

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01-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
That depends on if Burke expected him to return to the lineup.
Nashville did not deal him for the cap hit. Nashville dealt him to avoid paying a large contract that insurance would not cover.

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01-08-2013, 03:02 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Spare part on a bad team and not used speaks for itself as to the value he has to the team was my point..

This wasn't a case of Franson being a victim of a strong team depth chart preventing him from playing but rather coach(s) X2 choice in Toronto that made him sit out 1/2 the season on a team with the 29th worst goals against that didn't think he could help them. Now he is unsigned and future uncertain.

If this is the reason really behind eating Lombardi's contract and giving up a 4th round pick in the process then the Leafs didn't get very much value in exchange for the so called doing the Preds a favour and taking advantage of MLSE money at its disposal in an attempt to improve the team itself. .

Personally myself I'd actually like my GM to make moves that improve the team,rather than more Lombardi type deals willing to take on other teams expendables/unwantables simply because MLSE has the financial wherewithal to do so.
Franson sat because Gardiner outplayed him. Normally adding a young solid d man who put up 30 points in limited minutes due to being on one of the deepest teams in the league in regards to d for the cost of 7 million that was expected to be an injured Lombardi that wouldn't play and Brett "-3 in a 9 to 3 win" Lebda is a good deal.

And Franson did play well at times when he was used effectively. A legitimate bad move by Burke (Komisarek) and the exceptional play of one Jake Gardiner bumped Franson to the 7th man. He still holds value, he's still a good player, and that trade made total sense to make. I legitimately don't even know how you come up with some of this stuff, no offense meant of course.

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01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrontalLombardomy View Post
Franson sat because Gardiner outplayed him. Normally adding a young solid d man who put up 30 points in limited minutes due to being on one of the deepest teams in the league in regards to d for the cost of 7 million that was expected to be an injured Lombardi that wouldn't play and Brett "-3 in a 9 to 3 win" Lebda is a good deal.

And Franson did play well at times when he was used effectively. A legitimate bad move by Burke (Komisarek) and the exceptional play of one Jake Gardiner bumped Franson to the 7th man. He still holds value, he's still a good player, and that trade made total sense to make. I legitimately don't even know how you come up with some of this stuff, no offense meant of course.
If they had benched Schenn instead his value would have went down the toilet.

So I approve of this approach, after the fact. Wasn't good for the team, but it was good for getting JVR.

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01-08-2013, 03:05 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Nashville did not deal him for the cap hit. Nashville dealt him to avoid paying a large contract that insurance would not cover.
You don't know that was the sole reaason as much as I do';t know the opposite. There was several factors involved in teh trade and we are only speculating.

When it boils down to it. Trading Lombo + Franson for Lebda and Slaney is far different than trading Dipietro + pick/Prospect for ??? and then buying them out immediately.

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01-08-2013, 03:42 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Leafsman View Post
You don't know that was the sole reaason as much as I do';t know the opposite. There was several factors involved in teh trade and we are only speculating.

When it boils down to it. Trading Lombo + Franson for Lebda and Slaney is far different than trading Dipietro + pick/Prospect for ??? and then buying them out immediately.
Had Lombo not returned (as was expected to happen), would the deal be all that different?

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01-08-2013, 06:47 PM
  #188
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What troubles me is that with Burke being very loyal to players he signs will he actually buy out Komisarek?

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01-08-2013, 06:57 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
What troubles me is that with Burke being very loyal to players he signs will he actually buy out Komisarek?

He bought out Bertuzzi, so he can buy out Komisarek.

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01-08-2013, 07:49 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
At the time of the trade, Franson was a highly rated defensive prospect and there was some serious doubt as to whether Lambo would ever play again.

Both are much more valuable than Lebda any day of the week. It's a trade you make if you can every day of the week.

It is also a perfect example of Burke using our financial clout to our advantage which was the point being made.

If you wanna start a thread regarding Franson's current value, I will be glad to join you there and argue it until I turn blue in the face.
What advantage was gained by the Leafs in this deal? Didn't Nashville cruise past them in the standings? What did Toronto really gain?

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01-08-2013, 09:57 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Hal Gill As A Leaf View Post
I don't care for Interactif's Avatar. Why he wants to advertise for a high priced down-filled coat w/ coyote fur is beyond me. That label doesn't need any help when it comes to publicity for their product.

I guess I am complaining just to complain. :/ Sorry.
...Okay. I'm going to assume that was a really bad attempt at humour.

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01-08-2013, 10:01 PM
  #192
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...Okay. I'm going to assume that was a really bad attempt at humour.
I had a chuckle, but yeah the guy is no Russel Peters. What can I say, people love focusing on every little thing I do here. Including choice of avatars. Go figure...

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01-08-2013, 10:24 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What advantage was gained by the Leafs in this deal? Didn't Nashville cruise past them in the standings? What did Toronto really gain?
Since the world ended in 2012, none. Wait, it didn't?

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01-08-2013, 10:26 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Erdinger View Post
What troubles me is that with Burke being very loyal to players he signs will he actually buy out Komisarek?
Not likely, with only one year left it would be a waste. Of course, if nothing else goes down...... No

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01-08-2013, 10:32 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Gatorade View Post
What advantage was gained by the Leafs in this deal? Didn't Nashville cruise past them in the standings? What did Toronto really gain?
Forward depth and potential starting D, nobody expected Gardiner to come out of no where last season. I want my GM to make a trade like this any time, being a wealthy team has its advantages.

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01-09-2013, 08:14 AM
  #196
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Forward depth and potential starting D, nobody expected Gardiner to come out of no where last season. I want my GM to make a trade like this any time, being a wealthy team has its advantages.
You must be a Burkite. It's a crime to give him any credit around here

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01-09-2013, 09:36 AM
  #197
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What advantage was gained by the Leafs in this deal? Didn't Nashville cruise past them in the standings? What did Toronto really gain?
I remember starting a thread named "Lebda Trade = BACKFIRE".

people thought I was nuts, of course, and the thread was locked.

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